Mythological Weapons

[Joe Shearer]

It seem that you have taken it to your heart, oh my bad.

Just kidding!!!!!

I'm hugely impressed by your posts, and have got used to the idea that you are prone to stiff little lectures when someone - largely I - is marginally inaccurate. It's a feeling and a situation I haven't been familiar with for forty years, so it is more than a little amusing.

I was just kidding, for Pete's sake!!!!

 

[Alternative]

the weapon which actually exists!

There is difference between "exits" and "exited".

 

[MUHARIB]

vimanas from different part of the world

 

[Alternative]

Now, going ahead with the de-mystification, it is now turn of Trishula.
If we connect to two separate heads of trishula, pointing in opposite directions, with a small bar, it becomes a Vajra; please refer to previous posts relating to Vajra for more info.

Trishula​

The trishula symbolism is polyvalent and rich.

It simply mean that trishula or trident or similar shape implements were prevalent in different cultures and far off places other than Sub-continent. For example, Greek and Roman mythologies, Poseidon and Neptune etc

The trishula is wielded by the Hindu God Shiva and is said to have been used to sever the original head of Ganesha.

In Northern Sub-continent, since about tenth century AD, Trishula was copiously used in paintings, stone reliefs, sculptures etc. as weapon of Shiva but before that period, shiva usually carried Axe.
But in South, it is only evident from onward of 16th or 17th century AD time span.

The three points have various meanings and significance, and, common to Hindu religion, have many stories behind them. They are commonly said to represent various trinities—creation, maintenance and destruction, past, present and future, the three guna.

So, (tri)three (shulas)spears, can be associated with any thing having any relation to 3; but it is not explained why? either the weapon was designed keeping in view the theory or theory was applied to existing weapon.

When looked upon as a weapon of Shiva, the trishula is said to destroy the three worlds:

the physical world, the world of the forefathers (representing culture drawn from the past) and the world of the mind (representing the processes of sensing and acting).

The three worlds are supposed to be destroyed by Shiva into
a single non-dual plane of existence, that is bliss alone.

Interesting allegory drawn, in above post.
Usual inference is that the Kundalini when reaches and joins Shiva in Saharra Chakra, state of samadhi is reached, three worlds, past present and future, cease to exit, veil of duality is removed etc. and where we could fit Trishula in here????

In the human body, the trishula also represents the place where the three main nadis, or energy channels (ida, pingala and shushmana) meet at the brow. Shushmana, the central one, continues upward to the 7th chakra, or energy center, while the other two end at the brow, there the 6th chakra is located. The trisula's central point represents Shushmana, and that is why it is longer than the other two, representing ida and pingala.

As of Red part; it should be read as "places", three nadis meet at three different places.
As of Green part; the two, Ida and Pingala don't end at brow or Ajna Chakra.
As of Blue: trishulas with straight(non-curvey) equal length blades were also prevalents, the comparing the relative lengths is funny and out of place.

Trishula was primarily a weapon of forest dwellers, useful in defense/fight off against wild animals particularly efficient against tigers; Its implied use against human opponents emphasis blocking, parrying and disarming, stabbing, slashing etc.
I have not come up with a single reference of its usage in actual battlefield. I know that it was (still now) carried by Naga Sadhus in general but seriously doubt its (trishula) efficacy against well equipped, armored opponent in battlefield.

 

[Break the Silence]

One of the great thread in terms of Discussion and Debate.. Well I am very thankful to thread Starter- Ms. Divya along with Mr. Joe shearer whom I always admire by heart for his remarks and all other posters.
Now... its for Mr. Alternative for his solid debate points and the way he asked for the clarifications... I am totally impressed by his cross questioning. Thank you!
Best Regards.

 

[divya]

Tandava​

Tāṇḍava or Tāṇḍava nṛtya, the divine art form, is a dance performed by the god Shiva, who is revered by Hindus. According to Hindu mythology, Shiva’s Tandava is a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. While the Rudra Tandava depicts his violent nature, first as the creator and later as the destroyer of the universe, even of death itself; the Ananda Tandava depicts him as the enjoyer of his creation - the universe. Shiva as Nataraja (lit. "Lord of dance") is considered the supreme lord of dance.[1]
The Tandava takes its name from Tandu, the attendant of Shiva, who instructed Bharata (author of the Natya Shastra) in the use of Angaharas and Karanas, modes of the Tandava at Shiva's order. Some scholars consider that Tandu himself must have been the author of an earlier work on the dramatic arts, which was incorporated into the Natya Shastra.[2] Indeed, the classical arts of dance, music and song may derive from the mudras and rituals of Shaiva tradition.


Some of the 108 Karanas of Nataraja at Kadavul Hindu Temple, on Kauai, Hawaii. It is one of the few complete collections in existence, commissioned by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami in the 1980s. Each sculpture is about 12 inches tall. Chidambaram Temple is also known to have a complete set.
The 32 Angaharas and 108 Karanas are discussed by Bharata in Chapter 4 of the Natya Shastra, Tandava Lakshanam[3]. Karana is the combination of hand gestures with feet to form a dance posture. Angahara is composed of seven or more Karanas[4]. 108 karanas included in Tandava could be employed in the course of dance, fight, and personal combats and in other special movements like strolling.
The dance is a pictorial allegory of the five principal manifestations of eternal energy: [5]
'Shrishti' - creation, evolution
'Sthiti' - preservation, support
'Samhara' - destruction, evolution
'Tirobhava' - illusion
'Anugraha' - release, emancipation, grace
Thus Tandava symbolizes the cosmic cycles of creation and destruction, as well as the daily rhythm of birth and death.


Rudra Tandava: A dancer depicting Shiva kicking Yama, the god of Death.
Tandava, as performed in the sacred dance-drama of southern India, has vigorous, brisk movements. Performed with joy, the dance is called Ananda Tandava. Performed in a violent mood, the dance is called Rudra Tandava. In the Hindu texts, at least seven types of Tandava are found: Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samhara Tandava, Kali (Kalika) Tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. [4] However, some people believe that there are 16 types of Tandava.
How many various dances of Shiva are known to His worshipers I cannot say. No doubt the root idea behind all of these dances is more or less one and the same, the manifestation of primal rhythmic energy. Whatever the origins of Shiva's dance, it became in time the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of. --Ananda Coomaraswamy[6]
The dance performed by Goddess Parvati in response to Shiva's Tandava is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic. Some scholars consider Lasya to be the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds, Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya. [7]
The Hindu scriptures narrate various occasions when Shiva or other gods have performed the Tandava. When Sati (first wife of Lord Shiva, who was reborn as Parvati) jumped into the Agni Kunda (sacrificial fire) in Daksha's Yagna and gave up her life, Shiva is said to have performed the Rudra Tandava to express his grief and anger. The Shivapradosha stotra says when Shiva performs the Sandhya Tandava, the other gods like Brahma, Vishnu, Sarasvati, Lakshmi and Indra play musical instruments and sing Shiva's praises. [4] Ganesha, the son of Shiva, is depicted as Ashtabhuja tandavsa nritya murtis (Eight armed form of Ganesha dancing the Tandava) in temple sculptures. [8]. The Bhagavata Purana talks of Krishna dancing his Tandava on the head of the serpent Kaliya [9]. According to Jain traditions, Indra is said to have performed the Tandava in honour of Rishabha (Jain tirthankar) on the latter's birth. [10].
Creation is made possible by the goodness of Viṣṇu, and when it requires to be destroyed, Lord Śiva does it by the tāṇḍavanṛtya.[1]
There are 7 types of Tandava. Namely Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samara Tandava, Kaali tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. There are few people who believa that there are 16 types of Tandava. Tandava has vigourous, brisk movement. The dance performed by Goddess Parvathi is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic also. Some scholars call Lasya as the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds. Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya.

 

[KS]

In Northern Sub-continent, since about tenth century AD, Trishula was copiously used in paintings, stone reliefs, sculptures etc. as weapon of Shiva but before that period, shiva usually carried Axe.
But in South, it is only evident from onward of 16th or 17th century AD time span.

No Sir, If you look at the ceiling/wall paintings in the Brihadeeshwara Temple in Tanjore there are abundant references to the Trishulam. And the Great temple at Tanjore was built at the starting of the 11 th century during the reign of Raja Raja Chola.

 

[Alternative]

No Sir, If you look at the ceiling/wall paintings in the Brihadeeshwara Temple in Tanjore there are abundant references to the Trishulam. And the Great temple at Tanjore was built at the starting of the 11 th century during the reign of Raja Raja Chola.

Temple itself was built at the start of 11th century, but point to note is; the typical wall painting technique, Thanjavur Oviyam, dates 1600CE only.

 

[KS]

Temple itself was built at the start of 11th century, but point to note is; the typical wall painting technique, Thanjavur Oviyam, dates 1600CE only.

No Sir, What I meant is even the sculptures that are in the inner walls,pillars have the Trishul in them. I should have mentioned it in the previous post itself.

 

[Alternative]

Tandava​

Tāṇḍava or Tāṇḍava nṛtya, the divine art form, is a dance performed by the god Shiva, who is revered by Hindus. According to Hindu mythology, Shiva’s Tandava is a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. While the Rudra Tandava depicts his violent nature, first as the creator and later as the destroyer of the universe, even of death itself; the Ananda Tandava depicts him as the enjoyer of his creation - the universe. Shiva as Nataraja (lit. "Lord of dance") is considered the supreme lord of dance.[1]
The Tandava takes its name from Tandu, the attendant of Shiva, who instructed Bharata (author of the Natya Shastra) in the use of Angaharas and Karanas, modes of the Tandava at Shiva's order. Some scholars consider that Tandu himself must have been the author of an earlier work on the dramatic arts, which was incorporated into the Natya Shastra.[2] Indeed, the classical arts of dance, music and song may derive from the mudras and rituals of Shaiva tradition.


Some of the 108 Karanas of Nataraja at Kadavul Hindu Temple, on Kauai, Hawaii. It is one of the few complete collections in existence, commissioned by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami in the 1980s. Each sculpture is about 12 inches tall. Chidambaram Temple is also known to have a complete set.
The 32 Angaharas and 108 Karanas are discussed by Bharata in Chapter 4 of the Natya Shastra, Tandava Lakshanam[3]. Karana is the combination of hand gestures with feet to form a dance posture. Angahara is composed of seven or more Karanas[4]. 108 karanas included in Tandava could be employed in the course of dance, fight, and personal combats and in other special movements like strolling.
The dance is a pictorial allegory of the five principal manifestations of eternal energy: [5]
'Shrishti' - creation, evolution
'Sthiti' - preservation, support
'Samhara' - destruction, evolution
'Tirobhava' - illusion
'Anugraha' - release, emancipation, grace
Thus Tandava symbolizes the cosmic cycles of creation and destruction, as well as the daily rhythm of birth and death.


Rudra Tandava: A dancer depicting Shiva kicking Yama, the god of Death.
Tandava, as performed in the sacred dance-drama of southern India, has vigorous, brisk movements. Performed with joy, the dance is called Ananda Tandava. Performed in a violent mood, the dance is called Rudra Tandava. In the Hindu texts, at least seven types of Tandava are found: Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samhara Tandava, Kali (Kalika) Tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. [4] However, some people believe that there are 16 types of Tandava.
How many various dances of Shiva are known to His worshipers I cannot say. No doubt the root idea behind all of these dances is more or less one and the same, the manifestation of primal rhythmic energy. Whatever the origins of Shiva's dance, it became in time the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of. --Ananda Coomaraswamy[6]
The dance performed by Goddess Parvati in response to Shiva's Tandava is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic. Some scholars consider Lasya to be the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds, Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya. [7]
The Hindu scriptures narrate various occasions when Shiva or other gods have performed the Tandava. When Sati (first wife of Lord Shiva, who was reborn as Parvati) jumped into the Agni Kunda (sacrificial fire) in Daksha's Yagna and gave up her life, Shiva is said to have performed the Rudra Tandava to express his grief and anger. The Shivapradosha stotra says when Shiva performs the Sandhya Tandava, the other gods like Brahma, Vishnu, Sarasvati, Lakshmi and Indra play musical instruments and sing Shiva's praises. [4] Ganesha, the son of Shiva, is depicted as Ashtabhuja tandavsa nritya murtis (Eight armed form of Ganesha dancing the Tandava) in temple sculptures. [8]. The Bhagavata Purana talks of Krishna dancing his Tandava on the head of the serpent Kaliya [9]. According to Jain traditions, Indra is said to have performed the Tandava in honour of Rishabha (Jain tirthankar) on the latter's birth. [10].
Creation is made possible by the goodness of Viṣṇu, and when it requires to be destroyed, Lord Śiva does it by the tāṇḍavanṛtya.[1]
There are 7 types of Tandava. Namely Ananda Tandava, Tripura Tandava, Sandhya Tandava, Samara Tandava, Kaali tandava, Uma Tandava and Gauri Tandava. There are few people who believa that there are 16 types of Tandava. Tandava has vigourous, brisk movement. The dance performed by Goddess Parvathi is known as Lasya, in which the movements are gentle, graceful and sometimes erotic also. Some scholars call Lasya as the feminine version of Tandava. Lasya has 2 kinds. Jarita Lasya and Yauvaka Lasya.

Now, this post refer to an art form, not to a weapon, you may want to open another thread for mythical or ancient martial arts forms of subcontinent.
I remember reading an article where striking similarities between bharatnataym and Pakqua (or Ba qua, one of three main 'soft' chinese martial art style) where investigated and noted.
The mythical description or actual practice tells only one performer, and primarily as a conduit of emotional energy, but is it a martial art? very hard to answer.
Does it (Tandava or Bharatnataym) have martial/combat value of application; answer is tricky one. Many human or animal gesture or movements have a combat application, many stories abound that certify this observation. Next question will be; whether combinations of movement describe a system? Does it have a mythical or historical reference of being a separate martial art?
it would be interesting to read different view points.

 

[Malik Usman]

You must post such things which are reality............not fairy tales.

 

[justanobserver]

^^
*facepalm*

Title of the thread "Mythlogical Weapons"

 

[divya]

KHANDA

The khanda and related Indian straight swords are generally used in Indian theatre and art to represent the weapons of the ancient period of Indian history. Some religious iconography, such as statues of Kali, feature it. Straight swords are used in the classical Kathakali dance form, and the related Indian martial art Kalarippayattu. Indian television adaptations of the Ramayana and Mahabharata epics sometimes use the khanda sword to reflect the ancient nature of the setting.The khanda can sometimes be found in Indian comics, such as the Virgin Comics title Blade of the Warrior: Kshatriya, and the Amar Chitra Katha series.

The Khanda (from Devanagari) is a sword unique to India, traditionally associated with the Rajputs, Marathas and other clans of the Kshatriya warrior class of India. The khanda is a double-edged straight sword. The blade is usually broad and quite heavy, and broadens from the hilt to the tip. The blade transforms into tip rather abruptly somewhat resembling the tips of ancient Roman swords. The hilt has a small metal spike coming out in the opposite direction which is typical of khanda. Many other straight swords around the world were primarily used for thrusting and stabbing with the tip, whereas the khanda was mainly used to hack or cleave with the edge of the blade. See Indian martial arts.

The Rajput warrior clans in perticular venetrated the khanda as a weapon of great prestige, especially during the holy festival of Dussera, when it would often be the centre of a warrior family's religious rites. The Katar, Pata and Urumi are three other examples of bladed weapons unique to India.

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

Ayudhapurusha

Ayudhapurusha is the anthropomorphic depiction of a divine weapon in Hindu art. Ayudhapurushas are sometimes considered as partial incarnates of their divine owners.[1]
The sex of the personified weapon is determined by the gender of the weapon in the Sanskrit language.[1][2] The suffix "purusha" (man) is added to masculine weapons and "devi" (goddess) to female ones.[1] The weapons Shakti, Heti (a Hatchet-like weapon) and Gada (mace), especially Kaumodaki (the mace of Vishnu), Dhanus/Dhanushya ("bow") are women. Chakra, especially Vishnu's Sudarshana Chakra (discus of Vishnu), Shankha ("conch"), Padma (lotus), Ankusha (elephant goad), Pasha (noose), Trisula (trident), vajra (thunderbolt), Khadga (sword), Danda (a sceptre or club), Bana/Shara ("arrow") and ****** (sling) are depicted male.[2][3][4]
While weapons are personified in ancient Hindu epics like the Ramayana and Mahabharata, the ayudhapurushas were depicted in sculpture starting from the Gupta era. They might be depicted as humans with the weapons against them or holding the weapon or with the weapon on their head or emerging from it. The most popular Ayudhapurushas are associated with the god Vishnu and appear in his iconography.


Textual references

The first instance in Hindu scripture where weapons are personified appears in the Hindu epic Ramayana. Two daughters of the Prajapati Daksha, Jaya and Vijaya are married to the sage Krisasva. For destruction of Asuras ("demons"), Jaya bore fifty sons, who were powerful divine weapons who could take any form. Suprabha gave birth to fifty invincible sons who were called Samharas ("destroyers"). These magical weapons were known as Shastra-devatas – gods of weapons - and were given to king Kaushika, who later became the sage Vishwamitra. The weapons served him and later his pupil Rama, an avatar of Vishnu.[5][4] The Mahabharata records at the time of the chakra-musala war, the weapons of Krishna – another avatar of Vishnu and his brother Balarama appear in human form from the heavens to watch the battle. They include Krishna's Sudarshana Chakra and Kaumodaki, and Balarama's Samvartak plough and Saunanda musala. The Duta-Vakya ("envoy's message") of Sanskrit playwright Bhasa (c. 2nd century BCE – 2nd century CE) describes that episode from the Mahabharata when Krishna goes as an envoy to Kauravas' court to broker peace between them and their cousins the Pandavas, on behalf of the latter. However, when the Kauravas try to arrest Krishna, Krishna assumes his Vishvarupa (all pervading "Universal form") and summons his weapons, who appear as humans. The Ayudha purushas include the Sudarshana Chakra, the bow Saaranga, Kaumodaki, Panchajanya the conch and Nandaka the sword, elaborate descriptions of whom are found in the text. This is the only Sanskrit play that depicts the weapons on stage as humans. The Raghuvamsa of Kalidasa mentions about dwarf-like Ayudhapurushas denoting Vishnu's chakra, lotus, sword, bow and mace.[4]
[edit]

 

[lem34]

I was afraid the thread was going to head into this direction.

The radioactivity could have been due to a lot of sources. And if well surveyed I am sure a lot of regions in India would come up as high in radioactivity. Not sure if ancient battles would explain it all.

I think I read somewhere that their were suggestions from scientists that Moenjodarra was the site of a nuclear explosion in ancient times. would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or could tell us more on this topic

 

[divya]

I think I read somewhere that their were suggestions from scientists that Moenjodarra was the site of a nuclear explosion in ancient times. would be interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or could tell us more on this topic

i was searching for the video of a documentary which shows the satellite image of the place which has remains of the river and there is a theory that people moved towards ganges from there after the river was gone.

Never heard of the radioactive elements in that region though but have read a lot in texts about the radioactive soil of kurukshetra.

And if the stupid conspiracies are to be belived India got hold of the some ancient indian texts and is working on anti gravity device which was used in pushpaka.

lol
IndiaDaily - A secret project in India’s Defense Research Organization that can change the world as we know it – anti-gravity lifters tested in Himalayas?