Mythological Weapons

[Joe Shearer]

Dear Sir, By now it should be clear to all that I will not risk an engagement with you on any issue, even a minor one, without posting a rear-guard and ensuring that the line of retreat is clear at all times. So that was why I sought clarification.

I am now sure that we are in fact talking about the same subjects.

Going with the saying, a picture is worth hundred words (or thousand words...surely you can correct me), please consider the following for older or ancient form of Khanda

Blade of Khanda is thick with a central ridge and broadens right after point, and at foible blade is widest and gradually thins out till cross-guard. Design is angular.

and closer look

Latter Khandas were more straight, almost same as Sakhela. See below image.

And the Xiphos

Xiphos is more 'curvy' and tend to blade tends to widen near cross-guard.


What can I do? Point deserve that much info......

My first comment is that while I agree with the shape and size of the weapons shown in the illustrations, I would be wary of displaying these as evidence, for the simple reason that these are miniature paintings, with dates of probably the sixteenth century or even the seventeenth (I am not an expert on miniatures, and can't distinguish between Mughal, Rajasthani, Pahari and the variations).

Secondly, you will notice in the second illustration that Durga is swinging a cavalry sword, a tulwar, while the asura wields a conventional khanda. Interesting mix of the two. I am inclined to believe that pre-Rajput swords were generally all straight, khanda swords, because I have the impression that curved swords came in with the Rajputs.

Third, there have been parallel-edged swords, swords coming to a point, and flared-tip (khanda-type) swords in Indian culture. However, I haven't seen leaf-shaped swords. On the other hand, both the Xiphos and the Spatha could be, and are leaf-shaped; that is, at the hilt, they are almost the width of the cross-guard, then there is a fine taper narrowing smoothly, until one-third of the blade, then it flares out again, very delicately and smoothly, coming to a maximum width well past the halfway mark on the length, and then closing abruptly at the tip. This leaf-shape is visible in various swords, including Xiphos, Spatha and Scandinavian blades.

 

[Alternative]

Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?

Back to the point: a mace was Hiranyakasipu's weapon, not the generic weapon of asuras, who carried straight swords, the typical infantry sword, in battle. I cannot imagine the khadga used in battle; it was an executioner's sword, a palace guard's ceremonial weapon, used in sacrifice to decapitate hapless animals dragged there, earlier, the horse, the bull, now, the buffalo, the goat, chickens.....

I mentioned the Khanda not Khadga in my post #154, reproduced below
Can any one identify the type/name of sword in Ashura's hand? It seem more of hoplite sword than Khanda to me?
By Alternative
Shape of sword, seen in reliefs/sculptures, it not of a Khanda, but more of a hoplite sword (Xiphos)...?

Define Khanda, as distinct from a hoplite sword. I need to understand what your definition is, before commenting.

Going with the saying, a picture is worth hundred words (or thousand words...surely you can correct me), please consider the following for older or ancient form of Khanda


Blade of Khanda is thick with a central ridge and broadens right after point, and at foible blade is widest and gradually thins out till cross-guard. Design is angular.

and closer look


Latter Khandas were more straight, almost same as Sakhela. See below image.


And the Xiphos


Xiphos is more 'curvy' and tend to blade tends to widen near cross-guard.

now above last post#165

Dear Sir, By now it should be clear to all that I will not risk an engagement with you on any issue, even a minor one, without posting a rear-guard and ensuring that the line of retreat is clear at all times. So that was why I sought clarification.

I am now sure that we are in fact talking about the same subjects.

Above is 'a string of a filaments' of main thread, reproduced, to understand the red part of above your post, but have failed to comprehend it. Your ultra defensive vyuha is to much digest. what are you trying to convey?

 

[Joe Shearer]

now above last post#165



Above is 'a string of a filaments' of main thread, reproduced, to understand the red part of above your post, but have failed to comprehend it. Your ultra defensive vyuha is to much digest. what are you trying to convey?

If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,

1. The illustrations show khandas;
2. They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
3. You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;

 

[Srinivas]

I feel these mythologies around the world has some thing to do with Alien theory. I have seen documentaries which explain these is lot of similarities between the gods mentioned in the mythologies whether it is greek or indian. The time in which Aliens interacted with humans are classified as dwapara and treta yug where as when aliens are no longer in contact with humans kalug started at that point. Because of no evidence of gods existence people are more inclined not to obey dharma.

Regarding technology of the mythological weapons "Enstein himself said that the find of cosmic particles is nothing but find of god". Regarding sudharshana chakras it is nothing but a form of energy gained from nature and unleashing it on enemies. Use of astras is nothing but a process of transforming one form of energy into another form whether is is light or fire.

 

[misterme2]

Nopes it has been proven the presence of radioactivity but still they are searching for the reasons.....



A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

I wonder if it has anything to do with the atomic blasts by the Indian Gov't in Rajasthan ...

 

[Alternative]

If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,

1. The illustrations show khandas;
2. They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
3. You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;

You have completely missed the sequence and the question initially raised by me.
I raised the question that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos, then followed the string of post as linked by me in post no.167.
18' pike was poked in thin air, as you can revisit your posts to decipher the sequence and meaning.

 

[President Camacho]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the atomic blasts by the Indian Gov't in Rajasthan ...

Pokharan to Jodhpur, about 150 kilometers away. And mythology is after all, a mythology. But it is possible that some meteor, like that one in Siberia, might have struck and people talked about it.

 

[MaheenRizvi]

wow, I loved the read....

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

wow, I loved the read.....

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

there is nothing there except copy pasted articles

 

[Joe Shearer]

You have completely missed the sequence and the question initially raised by me.
I raised the question that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos, then followed the string of post as linked by me in post no.167.
18' pike was poked in thin air, as you can revisit your posts to decipher the sequence and meaning.

Sorry, it isn't clear what you are driving at. Your question was

that sword in the hand of Narasimha, as visible in stone reliefs (please go to previous posts), is not Khanda but seem like a hoplite sword, Xiphos,

, ie, was it a khanda, or was it a xiphos-like sword? My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos.

As far as the red portion is concerned, it means that having found that your knowledge of Indian weapons and weapons systems is elaborate and detailed, it has become a practice to verify everything that you claim before commenting on it, either to agree or to disagree. Further, if the matter is not clear, it becomes preferable to withhold comment or to say that the answers to the question are not readily available.

Is any section not clear now?

 

[Alternative]

My first comment is that while I agree with the shape and size of the weapons shown in the illustrations, I would be wary of displaying these as evidence, for the simple reason that these are miniature paintings, with dates of probably the sixteenth century or even the seventeenth (I am not an expert on miniatures, and can't distinguish between Mughal, Rajasthani, Pahari and the variations).

You asked for a definition of Khanda, I linked some suitable choices from net, to explain the shapes as I think, were adopted in different time frames.

Secondly, you will notice in the second illustration that Durga is swinging a cavalry sword, a tulwar, while the asura wields a conventional khanda. Interesting mix of the two. I am inclined to believe that pre-Rajput swords were generally all straight, khanda swords, because I have the impression that curved swords came in with the Rajputs.

I have observed (with some amazement)that there is some confusion in as of, Rajput sword, (which is self evident if google search is made, the confusion that is) and it is aslo evident from above quoted post.
Khanda was the sword of choice till the Rajputs crossed their khandas with Central Asian/Persian scimitars, curved swords, which were better than in cutting and slicing (why better? a separate topic).
This experience with curved swords resulted in a new design and manufacture of a sword, that was known (or you can say named) according to its place of origin, Sarohi. Sarohi is the famed sword of Rajputs. And when all this happened?, I am not clear but it was widely used in the time of Maharana Pratap Singh, image below show Maharana with "two" Sarohis.

Sarohi is aesthetically pleasing, blade is light not that broad and curvy (like most of scimitars), comes out straight from hilt, and about half way curves upwards and blade start tapering, till the point is reached.
Khanda also remained in use, it angular features, became more flattened, please refer to linked pictures of Khanda.

Third, there have been parallel-edged swords, swords coming to a point, and flared-tip (khanda-type) swords in Indian culture. However, I haven't seen leaf-shaped swords. On the other hand, both the Xiphos and the Spatha could be, and are leaf-shaped; that is, at the hilt, they are almost the width of the cross-guard, then there is a fine taper narrowing smoothly, until one-third of the blade, then it flares out again, very delicately and smoothly, coming to a maximum width well past the halfway mark on the length, and then closing abruptly at the tip. This leaf-shape is visible in various swords, including Xiphos, Spatha and Scandinavian blades.

Yes, you are right, and all this was cause of my question;
.....shape of sword in stone reliefs(.. in the hand of victim), seemed to me as leaf-shaped.

 

[Alternative]

Sorry, it isn't clear what you are driving at. Your question was , ie, was it a khanda, or was it a xiphos-like sword? My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos.

Now, your answer was;

1. If I might stick an 18' Macedonian pike out of my ultra-defensive vyuha,
2. The illustrations show khandas;
3. They cannot be Greek Xiphos', because those were leaf-shaped, whereas khandas never were; they were always in that khanda shape;
4. You shouldn't have used those two illustrations, which could have been misunderstood;

Frankly, went right over my head,........where is your supposed answer

My answer was very simple: no, it was not a Xiphos

in it?.....
Whatever....niceties of net talk.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Now, your answer was;

Frankly, went right over my head,........where is your supposed answer

in it?.....
Whatever....niceties of net talk.

Yes, boss. Just like you say, boss.

 

[Alternative]

Yes, boss. Just like you say, boss.

It seem that you have taken it to your heart, oh my bad.

 

[somebozo]

the weapon which actually exists!