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Myanmar-Bangladesh relations

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cross post from another thread:

Rohingya's are indigenous Muslims of the Rakhine state of Burma. Burma has many different ethnic groups. About 50-60% (correct census statistics is hard to find) is Bamar (also called Burman). Bamar kingdom annexed a historic state called Arakan that is just south of Chittagong, Bangladesh. This area has a complicated history and this Arakan changed hands many times and was broken to different parts. Only Akyab and Kyaukpyu parts are now called Rakhine, while the south and north parts have now become parts of other states:
arakanbrit.gif

443px-Burma_topo_en.jpg


Current Rakhine state is a part of this historic Arakan and it borders with Chittagong. So because of this history, we have similar people living in both Rakhine, Burma and Chittagong, Bangladesh. It is not just Muslim Rohingya's but Buddhist Rakhines as well, we have about 200,000 Rakhines living in Bangladesh for example.

Arab traders were visiting these areas from remote past. Since 800 AD, Islam spread in this area mainly from Arab traders who settled down in the area. Arakan was a Buddhist kingdom, but due to internal power struggle one of the royal escaped to Sultanate of Bengal and accompanied Turkic/Afghan soldiers to restore his throne around 1400 AD, so some Muslims descend from these soldiers. Also, Mughal governor of Bengal Shah Shuja went there in 1600's, who were killed but the retinue survived.

Burma's Bamar king annexed Arakan around 1780's, and in the process massacred and enslaved both Rakhine and Rohingya who fled to neighboring Chittagong. Many of these escapees returned in 1823, when Arakan came under British Indian rule. In 1982, the Bamar military Junta made a special clause in their constitution that all citizen's of Burma, must have ancestor living there from before 1823.

The Bamar's consider the Rohingya non-citizens, and have been expelling them since 1970's. Because of this ethnic cleansing, out of about 4 million Rohingya's, today only about 800,000 remain in Arakan/Rakhine state. The rest are now scattered all over the world, including about 300,000-500,000 inside Bangladesh. Currently many reside in India, Pakistan, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, GCC, US, EU, ANZ, Japan etc.

One should note that Bamar ethnic group is a liittle imperialist of our neighborhood. They came down from Yunan region of China about 1200-1500 years back and has repeatedly created their empires, subjugating other ethnic groups and nations. Currently the following ethnic groups are fighting with Bamar junta for independence since 1949:

- Karen
- Kachin
- Shan
- Mon

Interestingly it is the Rohingya that is the oldest indigenous ethnic group of this region, while all others migrated from the north with Bamar being the latest one that claim to be indigenous to the area.

Aye Chan's Selective Amnesia

Aye Chan's Selective Amnesia

Thursday, 15 September 2011 11:09
by Dr. Habib Siddiqui

Aye Chan is a Rakhine racist and bigot who has made a profession out of distorting history of Muslims of Arakan. His latest article "Burma’s Western Border as Reported by the Diplomatic Correspondence (1947 – 1975)" is another such evil attempt to justify aggression and oppression against the Rohingya Muslims of Arakan (and Burma). In his twisted logic he shows his selective amnesia about the crimes of his own racist group while being all agog about the so-called secession movement of the Rohingyas in the dying days of the British rule in South Asia.

Aye Chan's latest disingenuous attempt to revise history should not surprise anyone that is well acquainted with the history of partition of British India and emergence of Burma as a free nation. During that period, many activists of the freedom movement felt that it was not what they had bargained for with the leaders of the dying British Colonial administration. Even the Arakanese people wanted a state of their own away from the control of the Burmans. Muslims of Kashmir wanted to be part of Pakistan, a matter that was left unresolved because while the territory had some 80-90% Muslims, its ruler was a Hindu. So was the case with princely state of Hyderabad, ruled by Muslim nobility over Hindu majority.

In the then East Pakistan, no one knew for a short period after 14-15 August 1947, whether Sylhet and Karimganj, two places with huge Muslim population would become part of Pakistan or became part of India. The same goes for other territories all along the boundaries that we see today. Boundary demarcation was not clear. Some border towns had one day the Indian flag raised, only to be replaced by the Pakistani flag next day, or week, and vice versa. So, if the Rohingya Muslim people of Northern Arakan, where it is overwhelmingly Muslim, had desired during the independence of Pakistan and Burma to be connected with fellow Muslims in East Pakistan, because of their cultural ties, was it totally out of line? I doubt that.

Even the Rakhines did not want to be part of Burma. There were insurgencies, communist and nationalist alike, raging everywhere inside Burma. From the 1950s, there was a growing movement for secession and restoration of independence of Arakan. In part to appease this sentiment, in 1974, the socialist government under General Ne Win constituted Rakhine State from Arakan Division giving at least nominal acknowledgment of the regional majority of the Rakhine people. This was an unfortunate and ill-conceived decision, planting the seeds of racism in a divided country along ethnic lines that would complicate the relationship between the two major ethnic groups, Rakhines and Rohingyas. Islamic separatists calling themselves the Mujahid also carried out a rebellion to create an Islamic state in the regions bordering Chittagong/Cox's Bazar (of the then East Pakistan). Now to blame the Rohingyas for their piece of struggle, while hiding crimes of the Rakhine insurgency, is insincere and racist to the core. It is not analysis but paralysis of independent and unbiased thinking! As the dust settled, which by the way did take some years with all those killings of founding leaders of Burma, the disparate people of Burma have learned to live with the new reality. But Burma still remains a fractured country of nations where racism runs deep and wisdom a rarity, even amongst its intellectuals.

Today's Rohingya people have no desire for a separate homeland of their own, if their basic human rights can be protected. But if they continue to be treated as outsiders, infiltrators, and all the false xenophobic, or rather racist, epithets thrown at them by their hateful accusers, then it is high time for the conscience minded people of our planet to demand a change with such an attitude that forces these indigenous people of Arakan to live a life of statelessness inside Burma, or of unwanted refugees outside.

Historically, the people of Arakan and Chittagong were the same people living along the coastal shorelines of the Bay of Bengal. The River Naaf which now separates Burma from Bangladesh was not a physical barrier to these indigenous people. People of this joint landmass lived for centuries together before they became part of either the Muslim Sultanate or Buddhist Rule.

The indigenous people, the true Bhumiputras (adibashis), were these brown-colored (Indian featured) people whose descendants now live in northern Arakan (whom we know as the Rohingyas) and Chittagong/Cox's Bazar districts of today's Bangladesh (known as the Chittagonians). Their racial similarity was mostly because of that connected shoreline, away from the Arakan Yoma mountain range that had separated this crescent on the Bay of Bengal from the thrust of savages coming from the north and the east. Their dialect was also same (originating from Sanskrit, which later evolved into Bangla) until much later in history, when the Muslim ruled Chittagong absorbed lots of Farsi and Arabic terms in their vocabulary, as a result of Sultanate and Mughal rule of Bengal.

It took the late 10th century for this landmass of Arakan, then ruled by Hindu kings, to come under the possession of the Tibeto-Burman Buddhist invaders from the north. While the northern territories of Chittagong survived from the takeover, it took a few centuries, until the Mrauk-U dynasty to cement this relationship between the two sides of the Naaf River. Nurtured by the new rulers who were indebted to the Bengal Sultan who had restored Narameikhla back to power in 1430, Mrohaung (sounding Rohang or Roshang - in Bengali) became the literary center of Bengali literature. From then on, the cultural link between the two sides was only punctuated during the Burman invasion of Arakan in 1784, when tens of thousands of Rohingya Muslims and Hindus, and Rakhine Buddhists were killed and enslaved. Many fled to Chittagong and settled there. During the British occupation, dating back to 1824, some of the children and grandchildren of these exiles returned to cultivate the land that had become desolate. Many however, chose to remain in Chittagong, as is well recorded and documented to this date.

The obnoxious claim that the Rohingyas are a product of British occupation period, or of even later time, or geopolitics of the region, is absolutely false. It is ludicrous and aimed at denying basic rights of citizenship to these people. Not only is this 1982 Citizenship Law in Burma (interestingly written by Rakhine racists like Aye Kyaw, himself a naturalized American, living in NY city) at variance with all laws of our civilized world, it is downright criminal, and must be altered, thus allowing restoring rights of this unfortunate people, and many other races and ethnicities (including the Karen).

Even on another level, when we consider that it took less than a decade for many of these Rakhine exiles, now comfortably living as naturalized citizens in their adopted countries - USA, Germany, Canada, Japan and other parts of Europe, it is really bizarre to see them advocating for denial of citizenship rights to the Rohingya people. How long should they wait? Even if one were to accept the Rakhine version of false propaganda that the Rohingyas had infiltrated the territory in the mid-19th century, is not these 100 plus years sufficient?

Funny that these hostile racists and bigots of the Rakhine community claim that they are democratic minded and would love to see a federal state where democracy runs supreme! Their provocative statements, and the lies that they propagate, and the hatred that they spew, inciting violence against minority, only go on to show that they are fascists, and nothing else.
 
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Huh? There were not that many air force bases and naval bases in East Pakistan as I know. If there was Any war with Myanmar in the 60's on the eastern front, East Pakistan would be part of Myanmar today.

It is not really machines that win a war. It is the leadership and the willing population who combinedly win a war. 1971 war if independence attests to what I say. You are totally wrong in your assessment of the situation in 1960s. We have just achieved independence from British and hindus in 1947, we were full of spirits in those days. Well, I would not say we could have won an offensive war, but, it was possible to win a defensive war in our territory. Morever, Rohingyas were waiting in those days to backstab Burmese military.

Do you know or have you read one border episode of 1960s? Perhaps, you are aware that the northern bank of Naaf river (Dariya) was demanded by Arakan and then its occupier Burma as its territorial end. The then East Pakistan Rifles (present day BGB) pushed the Burmese to the south bank. But, Ayub Khan did not want another war front in east Pakistan. He conferred with the Burmese leaders and accepted the river center line as the border between the two countries.

Here, I refrain myself from elaborating two more episodes. One is a 2001 border episode whereby Burma had amassed 50,000 troops, and the other is 2008 naval episode in the BoB. Both the Burmese attempts were foiled.

Now, with many more population, a larger GDP, more war machines, more soldiers, more BGB troops and Ansars as well as a million-strong militia under the army, Bangladesh is quite capable to take a war inside Myanmar upto Yoma mountain range.

However, BD wants an amicable settlement of the Rohingya issue whereby the interest of those muslims are well taken care of.
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/16/w...ohingya-muslim-group.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Row over Aung San Suu Kyi threatens to split Burmese pro-democracy movement in Britain - Asia - World - The Independent

I think the Bamar have decided to assimilate the other ethnic groups like Rakhine, Kachin, Karen, Shan and Mon, but have also decided not to assimilate Rohingya, because of ethnic and religious difference. I have seen Burmese pro-democracy groups talking about and expressing these sentiments. So, supporting those minority insurgencies will not help the Rohingya. In this situation, the best option is to see if international pressure can stop the killing, if the killing spree continues then like Syria and Lybia, they need to be armed, like asad71 bhai also said. They deserve to have the opportunity to defend themselves.
 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/16/w...ohingya-muslim-group.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Row over Aung San Suu Kyi threatens to split Burmese pro-democracy movement in Britain - Asia - World - The Independent

I think the Bamar have decided to assimilate the other ethnic groups like Rakhine, Kachin, Karen, Shan and Mon, but have also decided not to assimilate Rohingya, because of ethnic and religious difference. I have seen Burmese pro-democracy groups talking about and expressing these sentiments. So, supporting those minority insurgencies will not help the Rohingya. In this situation, the best option is to see if international pressure can stop the killing, if the killing spree continues then like Syria and Lybia, they need to be armed, like asad71 bhai also said. They deserve to have the opportunity to defend themselves.

Changed your mind again?
 
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Changed your mind again?

Look, King Alaungphaya, it is not kalu mia who has changed, it is your racist Burman masters of Myanmar who will have to change their 5th century mindset to a 21st century one. Learn to build and live in a pluralistic and democratic society, or let all your non-Burman States to say a goodbye to you. At least, the Rohingyas must get either an autonomy within the Union or an outright independence.
 
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Changed your mind again?

I give my recommendation and suggestion based on the information I receive. Given my limited ability to scour the web and see people's mind set, I have to change position time to time as I receive new information that adds to my understanding of the ground reality of a certain situation.

I thought that other rebels would work with Rohingya, but I can see now that the situation for Kachin, Karen, Mon, Shan etc. are different from Rohingya, the Rohingya unfortunately are in a unique position:

Row over Aung San Suu Kyi threatens to split Burmese pro-democracy movement in Britain - Asia - World - The Independent
Burmese Democratic Concern, which organised today’s meeting with Miss Suu Kyi, is one of the exile groups most vehemently opposed to Rohingyas. Its website contains numerous reports laying the blame for sectarian conflict squarely at the door of the Rohingyas – a view which is disputed by most human rights groups and the UN.

Myo Thein, the group’s founder, told The Independent: “There is no tension in Burmese community over Kachin community because we are behind our brothers and sisters there. We fully support them. But regarding the Rohingya issue we do have a problem. We don’t accept they are part of Burma or Burmese citizens. We see them as illegal immigrants, Bengalis from Bangladesh.”

Myanmar Conflict: Ethnic Discrimination in Rakhine State Sparks Violence Against Muslim Rohingya
The democracy movement has not taken a firm position regarding the conflict. After Nobel Laureate Aung San Suu Kyi and her party National League for Democracy (NLD) gained power in April, she has "urged all people in Burma to get along with each other regardless of their religion and authenticity." However, she has yet to address the issue of the Rohingya as it could undermine her newly gained political foothold and the burgeoning success of a democratic transition. NLD spokesman Nyan Win says, "The Rohingya are not our citizens."

So they are virtually friendless within Burma, no one will come to their aid. If the "International Community" cannot stop the killing, they will need to find ways to defend themselves.
 
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India should provide some military assistance to burma they may be faithful people for future and can check the silent enemy of india
 
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India should provide some military assistance to burma they may be faithful people for future and can check the silent enemy of india

Silent enemy!? :woot:

Damn, I feel sexy already :D
 
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India should provide some military assistance to burma they may be faithful people for future and can check the silent enemy of india

We know big dada's are Islamophobes and want to see Muslims wiped off from the face of the earth and get great satisfaction from anyone who kills Muslims, so this is no surprise.
 
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I give my recommendation and suggestion based on the information I receive. Given my limited ability to scour the web and see people's mind set, I have to change position time to time as I receive new information that adds to my understanding of the ground reality of a certain situation.

I thought that other rebels would work with Rohingya, but I can see now that the situation for Kachin, Karen, Mon, Shan etc. are different from Rohingya, the Rohingya unfortunately are in a unique position:

Row over Aung San Suu Kyi threatens to split Burmese pro-democracy movement in Britain - Asia - World - The Independent


Myanmar Conflict: Ethnic Discrimination in Rakhine State Sparks Violence Against Muslim Rohingya


So they are virtually friendless within Burma, no one will come to their aid. If the "International Community" cannot stop the killing, they will need to find ways to defend themselves.

No, kallu. You vacillate everyday like either a senile old man or a little boy.

India should provide some military assistance to burma they may be faithful people for future and can check the silent enemy of india

We are friendly but faithful to no one but ourselves. From a Burmese perspective, we welcome help in containing BD.

We know big dada's are Islamophobes and want to see Muslims wiped off from the face of the earth and get great satisfaction from anyone who kills Muslims, so this is no surprise.

Kallu, there wouldn't be a Bangladesh to speak of without the Indians. You are the bastard children of England, India and Pakistan.

Look, King Alaungphaya, it is not kalu mia who has changed, it is your racist Burman masters of Myanmar who will have to change their 5th century mindset to a 21st century one. Learn to build and live in a pluralistic and democratic society, or let all your non-Burman States to say a goodbye to you. At least, the Rohingyas must get either an autonomy within the Union or an outright independence.

:blah: nice of you to call me King, though. :tup:
 
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We are friendly but faithful to no one but ourselves. From a Burmese perspective, we welcome help in containing BD.

Containing Bangladesh??? Muhahahahah..
And with Indian Help??? Mega LOL

Kallu, there wouldn't be a Bangladesh to speak of without the Indians. You are the bastard children of England, India and Pakistan.

Lets not get into that... Let say we are the bastard child of everybody but we are sending refugee to your country...
 
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Containing Bangladesh??? Muhahahahah..
And with Indian Help??? Mega LOL



Lets not get into that... Let say we are the bastard child of everybody but we are sending refugee to your country...

Must hurt your national pride somewhat if you don't like the Indians but it's true.

Look, King Alaungphaya, it is not kalu mia who has changed, it is your racist Burman masters of Myanmar who will have to change their 5th century mindset to a 21st century one. Learn to build and live in a pluralistic and democratic society, or let all your non-Burman States to say a goodbye to you. At least, the Rohingyas must get either an autonomy within the Union or an outright independence.

Never going to happen. Might aswell let them join your glorious nation.
 
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Must hurt your national pride somewhat if you don't like the Indians but it's true.

We craved our little country out of big empire and that was our pride. Ask any Indians and they will agree..

And your dream of using India against us laughable. Tell you one thing, we have a lot of score to settle with Indians but when it will be between Myanmar and BD, India will always side with BD. Its a natural outcome. You better keep China in good term who can actually stop BD of doing any adventure in your land. But China will always keep Myanmar weaker than BD as they dont like you.

Never going to happen. Might aswell let them join your glorious nation.

You never know BD might someday annex part of Arakan in future.
 
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We craved our little country out of big empire and that was our pride. Ask any Indians and they will agree..

And your dream of using India against us laughable. Tell you one thing, we have a lot of score to settle with Indians but when it will be between Myanmar and BD, India will always side with BD. Its a natural outcome. You better keep China in good term who can actually stop BD of doing any adventure in your land. But China will always keep Myanmar weaker than BD as they dont like you.



You never know BD might someday annex part of Arakan in future.

Well, our country was an empire. China is more desperate for natural resources and a sea-port for the south. What is Bangladesh? Do they need workers? I don't think so. You are a pawn in their little tussle with India. Don't think anything otherwise.

You little dream of taking over Arakan? Go fight global warming instead, Bengali boy. It will serve your country better.
 
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Must hurt your national pride somewhat if you don't like the Indians but it's true.

The fact is Hindu hating Jamatis in Bangladesh wishes all trade relation with India to be scraped and mostly see Myanmar as an option to counter India. Recent incidents really came as a real shock for them.

Many in India believe that Myanmar is much more reliable than Bangladesh because Bangladeshi make issues even out of the sound of fart. Most of the trade deal between India-Myanmar went without much hurdles but same becomes a huge national issue in Bangladesh because of the blessings of anti-India Jamatis and their supporters.
 
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