Myanmar-Bangladesh relations

[alaungphaya]

Heh. Listen to your big brother.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Huh? There were not that many air force bases and naval bases in East Pakistan as I know. If there was Any war with Myanmar in the 60's on the eastern front, East Pakistan would be part of Myanmar today.

Myanmar air force wasn't really that strong at the time. PAF even with its inventory on the Eastern front was stronger.

 

[kalu_miah]

Fellow Bangladeshi posters, I am pretty sure now that this Lungibhut is an authentic Bamar and I think he admitted some Rakhine blood as well, 1/4th if I am not mistaken. They are dyed in the wool Nazi's, you cannot reason with them like you can with any civilized people. I think he is not an Indian false flagger. But strange things do happen, for example he could be a Burmese, either in RAW payroll or from Burmese Army intelligence, which I am sure have good relations with RAW. I smell some Indian connection, but can't tell exactly what it is yet. The other thing I heard from my Burmese personal friend is that, if a Burmese is not connected with the Bamar Junta, they are essentially poor worthless nobodies in that society. Anybody who is rich and powerful, except for Chinese origin businessmen, is connected with the criminal Bamar junta somehow and it is possible that this guy is connected with the Junta. So we should carefully craft a message for them.

As I said before, we cannot use Rohingya's as insurgents, couple of technical problems:

- 800,000 is too small a number, so if they start insurgency it is possible that they will be killed or purged en masse in one big push, so this Lungibhut was right when he said it will be collective suicide, unless of course we are ready to invade Arakan, when they start their mass killings
- there is risk of extremist infiltration, jihad etc., which will be bad for Bangladesh, Muslims and the region

What we need to do is look at the situation there closely, there is ready made insurgents already fighting in Myanmar, these are Kachin, Karen, Mon, Shan and others, many of them are Christians. Most of them have 5,000-10,000 strong fighting forces each and equal or more reservists. They desperately need cash, weapons, ammunition, political, moral, media and diplomatic support. Some of them have declared ceasefire with Bamar insistence and pressure, but none, I repeat none, trust the Bamar and none have disarmed or joined the BGF (Border Guard Force) under junta pressure. This Democracy shemocracy is all a sham, to fool the world, using friendly innocent face of Suu Kyi to get out of current pariah status of the Bamar junta led "democratic" govt. Once they get more resources from "opening up" their economy, Bamar junta will then finally be able to wipe out any minority resistance with a bigger more well equipped army. This is their hope and plan. If you doubt it, please look at Bamar history. This tribe came down from Yunan area of China and essentially wiped out other tribes to establish their little empire in a thousand year long process. First they had an empire called Pagan/Bagan with capital of the same name, this was invaded by Yuan Mongols (including some Muslim Mongol generals), so that pretty much destroyed that one. Then they had some Ava kingdom in upper and middle Burma, while in the South Mon's restored their kingdom called Hanthawaddy. The Bamars of Ava came down and defeated the Mon, massacred them and assimilated the survivors. Although many Mon's speak Burmese, they resent the Bamar and would like to revive their Mon cultural heritage. Mon's are also closely related to Thai's. Thai's and Bamar had many wars, and they are historic regional rivals. You can look at details here:
Burma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe the best way to tackle this Bamar junta is to high light the plight of all minorities in Myanmar in the international arena, make appeals to help their cause and to support their insurgent armies.

Bamar tribe will never be friendly towards Bangladesh (note the Bangali Terrorist poster sign a Burmese protester was holding that found wide news coverage, nothing happens in Burma without knowledge or consent of the Bamar junta), at least not in the foreseeable future. They know that their 20-25 million people cannot stand against 160 million strong Bangladeshi nation, despite how big a sandal army they got and how many toys they got from Chinese. We are a threat for them and we are of no use to them, unlike China, India and Thailand, all of which are useful to them. I think we should help and make alliance with Bamar's enemies in Myanmar so we have some permanent allies in that country, which will help us in the long run. And these are all non-Bamar or non-Rakhine ethnic groups - Kachin, Karen, Mon, Shan and others. Thailand, USA/West, ASEAN, Japan and South Korea may be on the side of these minorities. China and India will always support the criminal thug Bamar junta.

Note that some will try to push their sovereignty line, internal interference etc., but Burma is not a finished product as far as nation-state goes, and all these minority groups also deserve their sovereign right of self-determination. So it is not interference in internal matter of a country as the status of the nation-state itself is disputed by a good percentage 30-50% of its own population.

And one last thing, please don't respond to their caliphate nonsense, they think they can fool the world and paint all Muslims as "terrorists" and trying to establish a caliphate and shariah where ever they can, the world has learned a lot since 9/11, so (lungi)-phat chance. Please do not respond to their nonsense. We know well that we will not support any separate Arakan for Rohingya's, that will antagonize even the non-Bamar's, who we can forge an alliance with. This also gives them the opportunity to paint Bangladesh as an aggressive land grabbing nation.

 

[kalu_miah]

**** YOU!!
What I mean to say was that we (today's Bangladesh), were a part of Pakistan before 1971. It was known as East Pakistan. It was the result of The Partition.

Pakistan was generally much more powerful compared to today, and had strong Western and Chinese support during the Cold War.

My point was that we could have hurt you badly if we really intended to a time long ago. We never did that. Not a scratch on you. Not even as Pakistan.

Interesting statement, when there is a crisis situation, one finds some interesting truth, it is better to stay miserable in a bigger nation, then separate and be happy in a smaller nation. So 1947 and 1971 were both irreversible mistakes, which hopefully we can solve with ASEAN+ solution, with or without these pesky 20-25 million wannabe Nazi Bamar's.

Off topic, but could not resist pointing it out. Imagine if all British India was together or even Pakistan was together, how good a thrashing we could give these pesky Bamars.

 

[alaungphaya]

Have I told you I am also 1/4 Mon? I am only 1/2 Bamar. Let's see you come up with one of your theories about this.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Interesting statement, when there is a crisis situation, one finds some interesting truth, it is better to stay miserable in a bigger nation, then separate and be happy in a smaller nation. So 1947 and 1971 were both irreversible mistakes, which hopefully we can solve with ASEAN+ solution, with or without these pesky 20-25 million wannabe Nazi Bamar's.

Since when were we joining ASEAN?

Al Zakir will go "Lanat on you" for the 1947 part.

As for 1971, East Pakistan had only one squadron of F-86s while India had 12 and an aircraft carrier!

Off topic, but could not resist pointing it out. Imagine if all British India was together or even Pakistan would be together, how good a thrashing we could give these pesky Bamars.

For what?

 

[zip]

It is a big diplomatic challenge for bangladesh if not handled properly will yield its negative effect for many decades to come .i hope govt is far more matured than these internet warriors

 

[kalu_miah]

Since when were we joining ASEAN?

Al Zakir will go "Lanat on you" for the 1947 part.

As for 1971, East Pakistan had only one squadron of F-86s while India had 12 and an aircraft carrier!

For what?

I will not go too much into that off topic discussion, but lets just say that I am just pointing out the geopolitical advantage of being in a bigger nation. Hindu's or Buddhists in these nations or races like South Asians of South East Asians are irrelevant. USA absorbed Hawaii a completely non-white nation, but ask any native there, they will never want to secede. So nation states can work together despite religious and/or ethnic difference.

But I understand the Muslim leadership at the time and their spokesman Jinnah to go for Pakistan, because of the trust deficit, so do I understand Bangladeshi's who supported independence in 1971, because of what happened in 1947-1971. And both of these changes are irreversible, in my opinion, so phat chance for SAARC.

This, however, does not change the fact that small nations have a difficult time always. About ASEAN, this is of course my opinion which I like to promote, also it is official Bangladesh policy to become an observer (the first step towards membership) which I posted many times. I am sure you have seen it.

Why we would want to give a thrashing to pesky Bamars, because they are unfairly pushing in their people on us and manufacturing a refugee problem. Essentially with their constitutional change in 1982, they have declared a war on us. If they are purged, where will they go? Indian border is fenced up and they are not welcome in North East states, so their closest destination is Bangladesh, where they feel at home, because of some ethnic similarity between Chittagong and Arakan. And of course having a common religion adds another factor.

 

[alaungphaya]

There is no Arakan-India border. Go north of Arakan and you get to Chin state. There is only a border with Bangladesh and that's where they came from.

 

[Icewolf]

This is the problem with a section of Muslims. Wherever they become the majority they start fighting for secession overlooking the law of the land. Such types deserve no mercy and must be hunted down to the last person.

You still sad about 1947 kid

 

[Zabaniyah]

Why we would want to give a thrashing to pesky Bamars, because they are unfairly pushing in their people on us and manufacturing a refugee problem. Essentially with their constitutional change in 1982, they have declared a war on us. If they are purged, where will they go? Indian border is fenced up and they are not welcome in North East states, so their closest destination is Bangladesh, where they feel at home, because of some ethnic similarity between Chittagong and Arakan. And of course having a common religion adds another factor.

I meant before 1978.

Let's see what Tien Sien have to say over the issue during his visit. I am pretty disappointed at this government's handling of the situation.

Bangladesh will undoubtedly face a very complex political environment in its region. And it'll take a lot of experience and expertise to address them. If not, we risk paying a very high price. The likes of Dipu Moni are not qualified for the job.

 

[kalu_miah]

There is no Arakan-India border. Go north of Arakan and you get to Chin state. There is only a border with Bangladesh and that's where they came from.

Yes that is how it looks now, but here is what it looked like all throughout recent history before the Bamar junta broke northern Arakan and included in Chin state:

 

[Bond]

Fellow Bangladeshi posters, I am pretty sure now that this Lungibhut is an authentic Bamar and I think he admitted some Rakhine blood as well, 1/4th if I am not mistaken. They are dyed in the wool Nazi's, you cannot reason with them like you can with any civilized people. I think he is not an Indian false flagger. But strange things do happen, for example he could be a Burmese, either in RAW payroll or from Burmese Army intelligence, which I am sure have good relations with RAW. I smell some Indian connection, but can't tell exactly what it is yet. The other thing I heard from my Burmese personal friend is that, if a Burmese is not connected with the Bamar Junta, they are essentially poor worthless nobodies in that society. Anybody who is rich and powerful, except for Chinese origin businessmen, is connected with the criminal Bamar junta somehow and it is possible that this guy is connected with the Junta. So we should carefully craft a message for them.

When I read the first sentence I was like "Hallelujah"- finally the enlightenment... and then I read next few sentences & I was like..

 

[eastwatch]

This is the problem with a section of Muslims. Wherever they become the majority they start fighting for secession overlooking the law of the land. Such types deserve no mercy and must be hunted down to the last person.

Your mindless comment was uncalled for. You are blaming those who are the victims of denials of citizenship and expulsion from their own country, under the occupation of Burmese. How about giving some comments on east Timur and South Sudan also. They are not muslims.

 

[eastwatch]

The thing is we're not screwing it up. The international community has said almost nothing on this issue for a number of reasons:-
- the stories of 'thousands of muslims' being killed is fabrication
- the intelligent ones are aware that these people's ultimate goal is a muslim caliphate in Myanmar
- the international community tacitly accepts Bangladesh's role in this conflict by asking them to open their borders

Like I've said before, the Rohingya themselves should be given the choice of which country they would like to live in. Whether they have been in Myanmar for 50 or 200 years, their Bengali homeland should not turn its back on them and only see them as Burmese refugees. They are Bengali people and if they wish to resettle in Bangladesh then you should not oppose them.

Even one killing due to religion or ethnicity is too much. So, you cannot hide behind the statement that 'thousands of muslims being killed is a a fabrication.' Thing is Rohingyas are persecuted people and like any other people they have the right to demand a seccession. Myanmar does not give citizenship to a people whose ancestral land it has occupied.

It is not an international norm to ask the Rohingyas to choose between their old homeland before 1433 and their present homeland where they have migrated in that year. Rather, it is the international norm to ask them whether they want their homeland to remain with a non-democratic bullying Myanmar or they want an autonomy or an outright independence.

I certainly believe Bangladesh has certain roles to play. It is same as when Malaysia protested the religious persecution of Thailand Muslims across the border.