My family fought for Pakistan

[roadrunner]

On the issue of blaming for the East Pakistan debacle, based on what I have been able to research, it was not Yahya who was obstinate or against MR forming a national government over both wings. The resistance came from Bhutto. If you can blame Yahya Khan for anything, then its for not jailing Bhutto for being an idiot and for not letting Mujeeb form a government which he deserved to.

The reason Mujib wasn't allowed to take charge of Pakistan despite winning the elections was that the Constitution that he would frame would have split Pakistan up into 5 different, autonomous provinces. This was illegal under the LFO set up for the elections. Yahya and Bhutto wanted Mujib to reconsider his 6-point plan, but they were not averse to the idea of a Bengali ruler (as many of Pakistan's rulers before had been Bengali). They would not allow Pakistan to be split up into 4 different areas though. I think both Yahya and Bhutto thought the same here, since they both flew to Dhakka the night before Operation Searchlight to ask Mujib to reconisder his plans.

I think not letting Mujib form a government was justifiable on this basis,

 

[roadrunner]

I like azmax's avtaar he is proposing a Union.

But I have seen on azmax’s home page that he called the old Biharis traitors.
Can u please explain how can you claim that they were traitors?

Dude, two-facedness is a common trait on some Bengalis

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

The reason Mujib wasn't allowed to take charge of Pakistan despite winning the elections was that the Constitution that he would frame would have split Pakistan up into 5 different, autonomous provinces. This was illegal under the LFO set up for the elections. Yahya and Bhutto wanted Mujib to reconsider his 6-point plan, but they were not averse to the idea of a Bengali ruler (as many of Pakistan's rulers before had been Bengali). They would not allow Pakistan to be split up into 4 different areas though. I think both Yahya and Bhutto thought the same here, since they both flew to Dhakka the night before Operation Searchlight to ask Mujib to reconisder his plans.

I think not letting Mujib form a government was justifiable on this basis,

I agree with you but this attitude also created a split in most Bengalis thinking for Pakistanis ....

 

[roadrunner]

I agree with you but this attitude also created a split in most Bengalis thinking for Pakistanis ....

It was twisted by Mujib's/India's propaganda that Yahya (who they described even as Punjabi!), did not allow Mujib to take charge of Pakistan on the basis he was Bengali. Which was a lie.. But most of the "facts" from the 1971 war are lies. It is an independence based on lies that continue today.

 

[salman nedian]

RR,
It is our turn to help the Bengalis in their time of need.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It was the Biharis who were against the Liberation and some collaborators who were having the best of both worlds i.e. East and the West.

There are enough on the internet by Bangladeshis to indicate that they were always for liberation and a whole lot of history for those who wish to read.

As far as Bengalees being double faced, it was the most humourous issue on this thread. I reckon grapes can be real sour!!

Bangladesh is not requiring anyone's help, so let no one ever think that Bangaldesh cannot do without them. Bangladeshi are in not in need of anything. Little less of self gratifying condescencion would do most magnificently.

 

[salman nedian]

Salim,
azmax said that his family was loyal to Pakistan that means that Bangladesh got independance in 1947 and they were loyal to Pakistan now similarly biharis were trying to protect the country from indian agents that means if they were traitors then they should have damaged East Pakistan before 1971 but they contributed in country's progress.

you say that you protected them from Pakistan Army now if Bangales didnt require any one's help who were you to help them?dont try to convince them that you are their friends you picked all the industry such as "Adamjee Jute Mills" and "Karnafali Paper industries" from East Pakistan and transferred them to west bengal.

General Arora used to call Bangladeshi general Usmani a traitor in his absence.

India always played a villain role right from 1947. bangales didnt want to separate it was the lack of communication b/w the two parts and india took full advantage of that.

your country is killing innocent bangladeshis and making them to pay more for general goods.

Indians should be ashamed of their role that they had playing and even now playing as well.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salim,
azmax said that his family was loyal to Pakistan that means that Bangladesh got independance in 1947 and they were loyal to Pakistan now similarly biharis were trying to protect the country from indian agents that means if they were traitors then they should have damaged East Pakistan before 1971 but they contributed in country's progress.

I would not like to comment on Azmax's family. I also do not know if he is a Bihari or a Bengalee and so it would not be fair on him.

During Independence and those who went from Bihar, as also Bengalee Moslems, were all for Pakistan, even Mujib.

For good reasons, they, espcially the Bengalees, were disillusioned.

Then, as per them, they were shortchanged.

It started the process.

Biharis, like most West Pakistanis, were under the delusion that they are better than Bengalees and they also thought they were from the Shiek, Syed and other illustrious strains in Islam, while the Bengalees were inferior being convertees etc (threads and posts over here also gives this impression).

Obviously, they and some collaborators, would be with Pakistan. Obviously, they would not like to stake their comfort and perks even if it were that they were second rate citizens!

They did damage the cause of Bengalees and hence they are considered as traitors there. Nothing usual.

If they were accepted by the Bangladeshis or Pakistan, then there condition should not have been so miserable as today, where they are not accepted by either Bangladesh or by Pakistan, for whom they stood loyal against all odds! Therefore, they deserve what is their fate for chosing the wrong horse, even if it means that the horse they backed is called Janus!

you say that you protected them from Pakistan Army now if Bangales didnt require any one's help who were you to help them?dont try to convince them that you are their friends you picked all the industry such as "Adamjee Jute Mills" and "Karnafali Paper industries" from East Pakistan and transferred them to west bengal.

Friend, you love to obfuscate to confuse issues.

I never said India protected the Bengalees. It is truth that prompt your statement!

I have no confusion in my mind. I was talking about the present and not the past.

Bangladesh is an independent country and is as good or as bad as any country. I am yet to read of their being salvaged by dole and munificence of the US or any other country. There are countries who are being foisted by the US munificence and dole, but not Bangladesh!

They, the Bangladeshis, have their problems, but they stand as proud people and do not move around with begging bowls and sacrifice their national prestige for the morsels doled out by foreign nations.

Poor but Proud!

They are not asking for anyone's help NOW!

General Arora used to call Bangladeshi general Usmani a traitor in his absence.

Really?

You were sitting beside him?

India always played a villain role right from 1947. bangales didnt want to separate it was the lack of communication b/w the two parts and india took full advantage of that.

your country is killing innocent bangladeshis and making them to pay more for general goods.

Well, if you feel that Indians are the villains from 1947, Indians believe it just the opposite.

So, it was the lack of communications?

Should you be a part of the problem or should you not seek solutions? By sitting on the haunches and wailing is the answer?

If it was such a insurmountable problem, then why have two wings? Don't you think it would have been better to make the weaker wing stronger in all forms i.e. security, economy and politically so that none could take it away from you. What did you do instead, leave it weak in all spheres and then when it was gone, wail and weep and find excuses that are childish!

Killing innocent Bangladeshis? Like? Some examples please.

Now, one could by the same ridiculous token of argument say that you are killing the poor, innocent Pashtuns and Balochis and the Shias! How about that?

Pay extra? Christ, this is a global economy. Ask Shaukat and check the thread on that.

Indians should be ashamed of their role that they had playing and even now playing as well.

Whatever for?

The same could be said of Pakistan.

But then, I would say it is being stupid!

 

[salman nedian]

Friend, you love to obfuscate to confuse issues.

I never said India protected the Bengalees. It is truth that prompt your statement!

I have no confusion in my mind. I was talking about the present and not the past.

Bangladesh is an independent country and is as good or as bad as any country. I am yet to read of their being salvaged by dole and munificence of the US or any other country. There are countries who are being foisted by the US munificence and dole, but not Bangladesh!

They, the Bangladeshis, have their problems, but they stand as proud people and do not move around with begging bowls and sacrifice their national prestige for the morsels doled out by foreign nations.

Poor but Proud!

They are not asking for anyone's help NOW!

This is where you confuse others i didnt talk about their poorness i respect them b/c they were the creators of our Country.you will say that they are not asking for anyone's help b/c you are pressurizing them by stopping their water,selling your goods on a much higher prices and you want to continue.

Well, if you feel that Indians are the villains from 1947, Indians believe it just the opposite.

So, it was the lack of communications?

Should you be a part of the problem or should you not seek solutions? By sitting on the haunches and wailing is the answer?

If it was such a insurmountable problem, then why have two wings? Don't you think it would have been better to make the weaker wing stronger in all forms i.e. security, economy and politically so that none could take it away from you. What did you do instead, leave it weak in all spheres and then when it was gone, wail and weep and find excuses that are childish!

who were you to interfare in our internal matters?

Killing innocent Bangladeshis? Like? Some examples please.

Read all the posts Bangladeshis saying this.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

This is where you confuse others i didnt talk about their poorness i respect them b/c they were the creators of our Country.you will say that they are not asking for anyone's help b/c you are pressurizing them by stopping their water,selling your goods on a much higher prices and you want to continue.

I am not the person who allows emotion to cloud rational thought as you are wont to do!

Good that you respect them. But respect does not fill stomachs! Or brings any tangible results that you are aiming to indicate.

No one is stopping any water. It is the question of equitable distribution. Nepal is the source of water of some rivers, but they too first organise themselves and then allow the water to flow. We, too, are feeling the pinch.

But then crocodile tears are wonderful a sop.

What happened to your such brotherly concern when it was East Paksitan

who were you to interfare in our internal matters?

And who are you to treat the Bengalees they way you did and try to destabilise India with refugees whose burden was telling on India's progress?
Yes, who were you to do so?

Read all the posts Bangladeshis saying this.

Read what the internet is saying!

The Bangladeshi here are by majority Bihari razzakars and collaborators. Those who are Bengalees are being hounded by you.

 

[salman nedian]

What happened to your such brotherly concern when it was East Paksitan

you were not been able to build Farraka barrage before 1971.that was our brotherly concern.

And who are you to treat the Bengalees they way you did and try to destabilise India with refugees whose burden was telling on India's progress?
Yes, who were you to do so?

oh by this definition we should attack kashmir b/c there are lot of refugees from IOK living in Azad Kashmir

Read what the internet is saying!

The Bangladeshi here are by majority Bihari razzakars and collaborators. Those who are Bengalees are being hounded by you.

are you kidding?

mods can better answer this.

see this thread and if u find any Razakar do let me know.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate.../6290-farakka-barrage-curse-bangladesh-2.html

 

[Venkat]

Azma I am sure Birgadier Sahib did;nt mean to hurt your feelings.


Salim Sahib,
You being from the same breed should not talk like that, I truly belive his story, let me give you another fact or fiction, 1 of our sabers got hit a bullet went into its fuel tank( ground Fire ) in Bangladesh we saw him ejecting from our base me and one of my course mates took the jeep and went after him, It took us 10 min to reach there and we saw that the parachute was there with his gear but he was missing. we stood there for atleast 1 or 2 min when we heard a loud scream it came from inside the woods. We both ran towards him I had my pistol and my friend had a 12 bore with him. After running for atleast 500 yards in the woods we saw him on his knees and 5 men standing next to him they were rebels, When I looked through the binoculars I saw that they had already chopped his hands off and they were about to chop his neck off. I fired the first shot but was too far and they chopped his head off. They thought that it was Pakistani army and scattred all over we got our selves into a bit of mess and my course mates says if I die it will be your fault the MP were going to get him but no you had to say we will go.
I never expected that there were rebels hiding next to our base. So I killed 2 with my pistol and my coursemate killed 1 and 1 wounded very badly . The next 15min were the most intense moments of my life. Me and Course mate killed 11 men in hand combat I dont know how many did I kill but we slit there necks off. I learned hand -to-hand combat from a retired Subadar major who was living at our base but to my surprise my coursemate had no experience only what we are tought in the Academy. When we saw our friends neck lying on the ground the adrenaline took over I did'nt call Rambo at that time I had enough in me to finish the job.

The 2 mission you told me that you have done Salim sahib I am sure you must have encountered some moments in them like I had.

Dear Mr. Muradk

it was very nice to hear your story.

What is your coursemate name?

If you saw him die with your own eyes, how come the PAF Officially does not give this version of events?

-Venkat

 

[Muradk]

Dear Mr. Muradk

it was very nice to hear your story.

What is your coursemate name?

If you saw him die with your own eyes, how come the PAF Officially does not give this version of events?

-Venkat

It is not a nice story at all. His name is SA khan God Bless his soul, the person with me was Atta-Ur-Rehman a bangali Officer and a good fighter pilot retired as a Air vice Marshal from PAF. what was there to write or tell. The whole event is recorded and written The Library in Air command & Staff College has the complete version.

And Venkat I ask this from everyone and will ask you too. Please go to the intro section and introduce your self so we know who you are.
THK.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

you were not been able to build Farraka barrage before 1971.that was our brotherly concern.

If India was ever concerned or bothered about this so called brotherly concern, then things would have been different.

If your brotherly concerns were so intense, you would not have left East Pakistan so defenceless, fending for itself as also not taken them to be inferior a race (as is so evident from the internet and compounded by the observations of Road Runner, who has total contempt for Bengalis and obviously, he is not alone in such a racist feeling)

oh by this definition we should attack kashmir b/c there are lot of refugees from IOK living in Azad Kashmir

Really?

Likewise, there are many who have returned to their home and hearth.

How are they refugees? They are still living in Kashmir as those who have returned disillusioned of the promised Land. The issue of Promised Land does raise the images of the Palestinians.

are you kidding?

mods can better answer this.

see this thread and if u find any Razakar do let me know.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate.../6290-farakka-barrage-curse-bangladesh-2.html

Of course, you would call the help of the Mods because fact to fact you can never face the truth. You require either Divine help or the Mods to salvage you. Stand up with facts and not hide behind apron strings!

I have Mods who are friends, because of the internet, I don't ask them to salvage me.

 

[salman nedian]

Of course, you would call the help of the Mods because fact to fact you can never face the truth. You require either Divine help or the Mods to salvage you. Stand up with facts and not hide behind apron strings!

I have Mods who are friends, because of the internet, I don't ask them to salvage me.

I think you are completely out .you are directly targeting this forum.

If you think that we hound non Pakistanis then why are you here? We tolerate you and you are so much biased that you can’t see that Indian and Bangladeshi members are free in this forum to express their views. Is this your so called truth that according to you I cannot face?

You are a senior and responsible member I respect you b/c you are elder than me and face the truth what Bangladeshis are saying rather than calling them razakars or blaming the forum.