Muslims in Middle Kingdom and Contemporary China Celebrating Festivals and More

[antonius123]

No way friend, the truth is Indonesian Muslim has become more religious. More people using hijab, many celebrities using hijab as well. If you check Pew Research, you can see that Indonesian is actually religious people despite its liberal culture.

We have 89 percent Muslim here and Today many see Islam as Modern thing, not backward idea anymore. It has good image in Indonesia as many successful people and celebrities are devoted Muslim.

The 89% figure most probably is not accurate.

What's happening in Indonesia is: those who leave Islam doesnt change their religion status in their ID card, therefore statistic number could be misleading.

I have friends who are christian but in their KTP (ID card) still state as moslem.

 

[Indos]

The 89% figure most probably is not accurate.

What's happening in Indonesia is: those who leave Islam doesnt change their religion status in their ID card, therefore statistic number could be misleading.

I have friends who are christian but in their KTP (ID card) still state as moslem.

Administration problem maybe, as talking about religion data is based on census, not ID record.

Yup, maybe there is a decrease, but it is happening in poor area in which many uneducated people are there, especially some area in Central Java and East Java where Christian church has an agenda for that and Islamic influence is not as tight as in Islamic strong hold areas. There are areas in Central and East Java in which Islamic teaching is not strong, even they still retain Hindu tradition. This is a weak region in term of Islamic belief, and adding with many of them are poor, so...........

In other hand, Aceh (Sumatra), West Sumatra, Jakarta, West Java, Kalimantan are Islamic stronghold.

Aceh (Sumatra), Minang (West Sumatra), Malays (Sumatra/Kalimantan), Betawi (Jakarta), and Sundanese (West Java) ethnic seems to be ethnic group in Indonesia that is difficult to be penetrated as the people there can be seen as quite strong in their Islam belief.

In term of Javanese, they are one of the last Indonesian who embrace Islam, so some of them still mix Islam with old tradition.

In Central Java, there is Muhammadiyah there, but Muhammadiyah is not really strong for Javanese people, it was spread by Minang people who has many traders all over Indonesia. Only some areas in Central Java which is Muhammadiyah stronghold. Muhammadiyah is strong in Indonesian cities only, hasnt yet penetrated well the rural areas in Java. Central Java is a base camp of PDI-P (Nationalist Party- many regard them as a secularist political power), Islamist party always get difficulty to get this region. But, when Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was at power, democrat party maybe win this region, and democrat party is not a nationalist secular, it has Islamist element there and use nationalist religious as their ideology, this party made coalition with Islamist party even until Today as opposition power and always have PDI-P as its political opponent until Today.

For East Java, there is Nahdatul Ulama, it has strong base there, but as you know, Javanese are so many, in 1965 many East Javanese are Communist and Has had a civil war with Nahdatul Ulama. Islamist party can only have half of this region. Other half goes to nationalist "secular" party (PDI-P)

After I check the data, it turn out that in 1990 Islam has 87 %, a decrease from 1980 which is still around 90 %, but in 2000's the number rise again into 89 %, but in term of percentage raise, Christian has the highest increase rate.

 

[third eye]

you dont count anywhere, havent you learned yet

Speak when you are spoken to.

 

[prima99]

So, you smoke, drink beer, and also a woman..........

Only Non-Muslim and very low percentage of Muslim in Indonesia who drinks beer, some ( the naughty one ) maybe drink it when they were still at high school but overall, lets say about 80% Indonesian Muslim follow the order in Quran not to drink a beer as it is considered Haram.

i'm a guy, 100% guy.

nope, the percentage isn't very low. i'd say it's about 80% in cities like Jakarta, Bandung, and other. back then when i was a college student in bandung, all of my classmates were drinkers including me. we don't drink to get drunk, but we are "drinking" nonetheless. i don't think people avoid drinking because it's haram. it's more like they didn't find the taste of beer into their liking. those who likes beer wouldn't want to avoid it. i've met with other indonesian muslims across europe and we've been drinking together from Dublin to Berlin.

it's alcholic drinks like Whiskey and Wine that people tend to label as Haram, not beer. who would like to drink Whiskey everyday in the scorchingly hot country like indonesia anyway?

 

[xyxmt]

Speak when you are spoken to.

I am sorry but this is a forum, if we go by your theory of speaking only when you are spoken to then there will never be any replies to any thread unless every poster specifically names the person he or she want to talk to.

 

[Indos]

i'm a guy, 100% guy.

nope, the percentage isn't very low. i'd say it's about 80% in cities like Jakarta, Bandung, and other. back then when i was a college student in bandung, all of my classmates were drinkers including me. we don't drink to get drunk, but we are "drinking" nonetheless. i don't think people avoid drinking because it's haram. it's more like they didn't find the taste of beer into their liking. those who likes beer wouldn't want to avoid it. i've met with other indonesian muslims across europe and we've been drinking together from Dublin to Berlin.

it's alcholic drinks like Whiskey and Wine that people tend to label as Haram, not beer. who would like to drink Whiskey everyday in the scorchingly hot country like indonesia anyway?

What kind of school and college that you enter which such higher level of naughty action going on....... ?

Yah, some of my old school buddies did drink alcohol (only the naughty ones of course ) but one of them turn out to be religious after growing older, the other I dont know, similar like some of my universities buddies that has become religious Today.

I prefer coffee though

Really disappointed that you are actually a real man.......

 

[Borr]

An organized religion must find to way to decouple its spirituality from social organization to prosper in China.

The Chinese political tradition is just incompatible with an exclusive belief-based ideology.

Even rather tolerant with Buddhism, the Chinese authority would not like the Buddhist temples become concentration of land and property, as it had been several times in history.. we all know what would happen if the temples grow too influential.

 

[rott]

Speak when you are spoken to.

It doesn't apply in forums.

 

[24 Hours]

1.7 is still a small number though, the whole meaning of fastest growing of anything does not mean much itself.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

No, we Chinese Muslims won't take a crap about Saudis. They must be under China's indicate and make Islam back to peaceful and civilized religion.

@JUBA, @Arabian Legend @Falcon29 @azzo @Full Moon @Bubblegum Crisis @Beidou2020 @Place Of Space @pher
@pigtaker
Your opinions

“There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in God, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And God is Hearing, Knowing.”

Sami yusuf - Asma Allah

Merciful, Generous, Incomparably great, All knowing
Forbearing, Wise, Eternal

Bestower of blessings, Most compassionate, Opener, Forgiver
Accepter of repentance, Provider, Witness

O my Lord send salutations upon Muhammad
And upon the Family of Muhammad
O Muslims, send salutations upon him

O my Lord send salutations upon Muhammad
And upon the Companions of Muhammad
O Muslims, send salutations upon him

Gentle, All aware, All hearing, All seeing
Majestic, Watchful, Granter of prayers

Forgiving, Thankfull, Loving, Sustainer, Most kind,
Patient, Most glorious

O my Lord send salutations upon Muhammad
And upon the Family of Muhammad
O Muslims, send salutations upon him

O my Lord send salutations upon Muhammad
And upon the Companions of Muhammad
O believers, send salutations upon him

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
There is no deity but him, the king, the most holy

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Most Compassionate
Have compassion on our weakness

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Forgiver, forgive our sins

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Concealer, conceal our defects

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Bestower of honour. Bestow honour on our Ummah

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Granter of prayers, answer our prayers

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest,
O Gentle One, be gentleness with us
O Gentle One, be gentleness with us
O Gentle One, be gentleness with us

Be Gentle with us



…

 

[prima99]

What kind of school and college that you enter which such higher level of naughty action going on....... ?

Yah, some of my old school buddies did drink alcohol (only the naughty ones of course ) but one of them turn out to be religious after growing older, the other I dont know, similar like some of my universities buddies that has become religious Today.

I prefer coffee though

Really disappointed that you are actually a real man.......

uhh.. why is my gender even matters? just because i'm using a loli avi doesn't makes me a female. i'm in fact quite a lolicon though only for 2D girls.

i know and i am aware of the international age regulations rules. i only start drinking during my 1st year in college since i am an adult at that time as if it's not obvious.

why would you be branded as naughty just because you drink some alcoholic beverages? this is why i'm out of Indonesia for a long time. i don't like religion to have anything to do with me and i don't like the people that branded others as such either. it's this backward mindset that needs to be changed forever. rather than me, please go tell the other Muslim countries to stop their Muslim Adult Video industries.

religion is no more than a "take it or leave it, do it or don't do it" stuff for me (and maybe for others too). no religion can take full control of me nor even have the right to change me based on their "holy source". i believe in god (depends on the religion) i am in, and that's all that matters to me. i take islam as my basic religion, i can't choose other religion because at that time i'm just a baby and i don't have the freedom to pick.

being an Agnostic Muslim for a long time. the only (and the very last) religion i'd like to convert into is Shintoism, IF they give me some Shrine Maiden Waifus just like this Please!!!

 

[Zsari]

I appreciate the kind words, but I do think it's best if I stick to non-religious subjects. I'm sure our very capable Chinese colleagues (paging @Chinese-Dragon @Edison Chen @Shotgunner51 @Yizhi @Zsari @hans @Beast @beijingwalker ) can elaborate about the specific Chinese sensitivities toward religion (not just Islam) and the destructive role it has played in Chinese history (e.g. Taiping Rebellion). I do not believe that religion can contribute to Asia's development, but I do believe that religion can impede Asia's development. I'll leave it at that, but again, I'm not going to touch the "Islam in China" topic with a 10 foot pole. I'm happy to discuss the other subjects in a more "pure" thread, if you like.

While there are a lot of talks of either Christian or Islam taking over China, I see no possibility of such. Both religion have a long history in China and neither became dominant after nearly a thousand year of contact. Monotheistic religions are by nature more aggressive due to their exclusivity, but to most Chinese that itself is a foreign concept. They would often go to pray in a Buddhist temple, then move next door to a Taoist temple for some offering, and on their way home they'll listen to the sermon given in a church etc. I know many Chinese in the US that goes to church for a sense of community, and while the church would demand no other symbol of worship such as dragons, ancestors, folk gods be allowed in worshipper's home, few actually adhere to that rule. Another thing that's foreign is the concept of faith, as in a village under drought would pray fanatically to the god of chosen with great offerings, but after a week gone by without rain, the villagers would smash the temple, take back all their offerings and move on to the next god. And lastly, as I've stated elsewhere, religion has never been center stage throughout Chinese history, where the power of the state has always been absolute, never has the power of the church been. That's the main reason why the sizable Muslim Hui community have never run afoul of the Chinese authority, where secular state is a given and religious belief is a personal lifestyle that doesn't go above one's obligation as a citizen of a state. Anyone who hope for a Muslim uprising in China and implementation of Sharia law is bound to be disappointed.

 

[prima99]

While there are a lot of talks of either Christian or Islam taking over China, I see no possibility of such. Both religion have a long history in China and neither became dominant after nearly a thousand year of contact. Monotheistic religions are by nature more aggressive due to their exclusivity, but to most Chinese that itself is a foreign concept. They would often go to pray in a Buddhist temple, then move next door to a Taoist temple for some offering, and on their way home they'll listen to the sermon given in a church etc. I know many Chinese in the US that goes to church for a sense of community, and while the church would demand no other symbol of worship such as dragons, ancestors, folk gods be allowed in worshipper's home, few actually adhere to that rule. Another thing that's foreign is the concept of faith, as in a village under drought would pray fanatically to the god of chosen with great offerings, but after a week gone by without rain, the villagers would smash the temple, take back all their offerings and move on to the next god. And lastly, as I've stated elsewhere, religion has never been center stage throughout Chinese history, where the power of the state has always been absolute, never has the power of the church been. That's the main reason why the sizable Muslim Hui community have never run afoul of the Chinese authority, where secular state is a given and religious belief is a personal lifestyle that doesn't go above one's obligation as a citizen of a state. Anyone who hope for a Muslim uprising in China and implementation of Sharia law is bound to be disappointed.

agreed. In the end, it's humans themselves that picks whichever better for them. Though imo it won't hurt to take what's good and leave what's bad from any religions, if in the end we did learn something from it. That is why China was and always rich in cultures.

 

[Indos]

.

being an Agnostic Muslim for a long time. the only (and the very last) religion i'd like to convert into is Shintoism, IF they give me some Shrine Maiden Waifus just like this Please!!!

I dont know why you like Japanese women so much, they seems not too different with Indonesian women.

 

[Tanu90]

Administration problem maybe, as talking about religion data is based on census, not ID record.

Yup, maybe there is a decrease, but it is happening in poor area in which many uneducated people are there, especially some area in Central Java and East Java where Christian church has an agenda for that and Islamic influence is not as tight as in Islamic strong hold areas. There are areas in Central and East Java in which Islamic teaching is not strong, even they still retain Hindu tradition. This is a weak region in term of Islamic belief, and adding with many of them are poor, so...........

In other hand, Aceh (Sumatra), West Sumatra, Jakarta, West Java, Kalimantan are Islamic stronghold.

Aceh (Sumatra), Minang (West Sumatra), Malays (Sumatra/Kalimantan), Betawi (Jakarta), and Sundanese (West Java) ethnic seems to be ethnic group in Indonesia that is difficult to be penetrated as the people there can be seen as quite strong in their Islam belief.

In term of Javanese, they are one of the last Indonesian who embrace Islam, so some of them still mix Islam with old tradition.

In Central Java, there is Muhammadiyah there, but Muhammadiyah is not really strong for Javanese people, it was spread by Minang people who has many traders all over Indonesia. Only some areas in Central Java which is Muhammadiyah stronghold. Muhammadiyah is strong in Indonesian cities only, hasnt yet penetrated well the rural areas in Java. Central Java is a base camp of PDI-P (Nationalist Party- many regard them as a secularist political power), Islamist party always get difficulty to get this region. But, when Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono was at power, democrat party maybe win this region, and democrat party is not a nationalist secular, it has Islamist element there and use nationalist religious as their ideology, this party made coalition with Islamist party even until Today as opposition power and always have PDI-P as its political opponent until Today.

For East Java, there is Nahdatul Ulama, it has strong base there, but as you know, Javanese are so many, in 1965 many East Javanese are Communist and Has had a civil war with Nahdatul Ulama. Islamist party can only have half of this region. Other half goes to nationalist "secular" party (PDI-P)

After I check the data, it turn out that in 1990 Islam has 87 %, a decrease from 1980 which is still around 90 %, but in 2000's the number rise again into 89 %, but in term of percentage raise, Christian has the highest increase rate.

i think now i know why @Phukimak said that you like to exagerate things. i think you over confidently throwing some numbers in your post without any data to support your arguments. if you take a closer look, some Indonesian members (if not all) who comment in this thread at some point disagree with you.

what's exactly the definition of Islamic stronghold? if you're talking about in jakarta or in any other city there are more muslim than non muslim, well, what can you expect from a country that 80 to 90 percent of it's 250 million people are muslims. don't forget that the governor of jakarta is non muslim.