Muslims in Middle Kingdom and Contemporary China Celebrating Festivals and More

[Indos]

Brother Islam is very difficult to understand, there was a good reason why scholars in the golden era of Islam had to mandatory study under a guided teacher for over 15-20 years to become a qualified imam or expert on a particular subject. You must educate these individuals, because most of them are manipulated by extremists.

Yup its true, Islam is like another knowledge, the best interpretation comes from the best thinker and the wiser. There are always another Islam as human will become a representation of this religion. Our obligation is not to let these extremist flourish and hijack Islam.

As far as I know, the extremist focuses on physical Islam (in a form of nation and land), but has no interest in psychological side of Islam (intention purification, deeper understanding of some verse in Quran and Hadith). They are always persons like them in this world who are existing, the ones who only can see black and white and put physical things as the most matter in life. This type of people are always exist, they become famous in this world because of media coverage and the easiness to make bomb in this modern time. They even now can bring people who has similar way of thinking (simplistic) all around the world and become a united force by using internet propaganda and other modern means.

 

[illusion8]

Yup its true, Islam is like another knowledge, the best interpretation comes from the best thinker and the wiser. There are always another Islam as human will become a representation of this religion. Our obligation is not to let these extremist flourish and hijack Islam.

As far as I know, the extremist focuses on physical Islam (in a form of nation and land), but has no interest in psychological side of Islam (intention purification, deeper understanding of some verse in Quran and Hadith). They are always persons like them in this world who are existing, the ones who only can see black and white and put physical things as the most matter in life. This type of people are always exist, they become famous in this world because of media coverage and the easiness to make bomb in this modern time. They even now can bring people who has similar way of thinking (simplistic) all around the world and become a united force by using internet propaganda and other modern means.

I hear that plenty of Indonesians are leaving Islam for Christianity - is it true or just rumors?.

It's a catching up trend in UK though where plenty are becoming atheist.

Even in India where many Muslims are becoming atheists or closer to it.... though it's being countered by many Muslims who are becoming wahhabi.

 

[Indos]

I hear that plenty of Indonesians are leaving Islam for Christianity - is it true or just rumors?.

It's a catching up trend in UK though where plenty are becoming atheist.

Even in India where many Muslims are becoming atheists or closer to it.... though it's being countered by many Muslims who are becoming wahhabi.

No way friend, the truth is Indonesian Muslim has become more religious. More people using hijab, many celebrities using hijab as well. If you check Pew Research, you can see that Indonesian is actually religious people despite its liberal culture.

We have 89 percent Muslim here and Today many see Islam as Modern thing, not backward idea anymore. It has good image in Indonesia as many successful people and celebrities are devoted Muslim.

This one Ilham Habibie who wants to make R-80 passenger aircraft is devoted Muslim and is one of leader in ICMI (Muslim intellectual group)

Ilham Habibie (intellectuals and tech entrepreneur)

There are even a hijab competition in Indonesia and this one is the winner last year

Mouzalina (she has Arab and Turkic blood)

Many celebrities are using Hijab as well

Oki Setiana Dewi

You can see here that the way Muslim Indonesian women wearing hijab is different, more colorful and using current design.

What I can say is that many rich families has their daughters using hijab nowadays. In my big family almost all women using hijab voluntarily.

Islam has good image in Indonesia.

 

[mujhaidind]

Sword of Islam will slay everyone in its path

 

[rott]

Eunuchs were usually prisoners of war or moderate criminals, actually. The Ottomans had a similar system. You'll have as much luck getting Chinese to stop eating pork as you will of getting Hindus to eat beef.

Haha you hit the nail buddy!
Out favourite is pork. My saying, "you can take a Chinese away from China, but you can't take pork away from a Chinese" lol...
The time I stop eating pork is when I am dead.
Sorry to offend some Muslims here. I'll never join Islam even if my life depended on it.

Yes Buddhists are so peaceful, they're just peacefully slaughtering people in Burma.

That's a 0.1 % if you know what I am talking about. Lol....

Oh before I forget, I need to share this true life story about a good friend of mine who got himself (half Chinese) converted to Islam. Reason? Well, only one reason. To marry a Muslim girl!
Well, I teased him around, calling him AL Qaida, Osama bin Laden etc etc. Funny but true.
The next Sunday he comes home and says, let's go to "Church". I was like, wtf! Then he goes on to say, "that's just for a show". No offense guys and Pakistani members.

I am realist and an atheist. Religion don't go hand in hand with me even though I am a Catholic and when I am in church, I rather look at pretty chicks than pray.

 

[Jlaw]

i'd like to post this video here. it's about a japanese idols visiting Istiqlal Mosque in Jakarta.

if japan can, why China can't?

it's not hurt for China to get more muslims. i remember back then when i'm still in indonesia, i can smoke and drink freely in public area during Ramadhan. the people doesn't care about it, the way i like it. China can into our examples and much easier into it IMO, because they have as many diversities as us.

i dunno about other islamic countries, but i doubt a non-muslim can enter any mosque. correct me if i'm wrong though.

You don't understand Japanese mentality. Muslims make up 0.01% of their population, if their Muslim population is around 5-10% it won't be so cute and cuddly.

 

[Rasengan]

Zhenghe was a Muslim prisoner of war from Yunnan, which was ruled by the Mongols and then taken back by the Ming. In fact, he is one of the most famous examples of a top eunuch who came from a prisoner of war background.

Also, your explanation of the Ottoman eunuchs explains the black eunuchs, but what of the white eunuchs?

Kapi Agha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just have to say, that while Islam is traditional to China, extremism is not.

Read the book "World History Since 1500: The Ages Of Global Integration" by Jiu-Hwa Upshur, Janice Terry, Jim Holoka,George Cassar and Richard Goff. Page 542-543 clears states that the vast majority of eunuch's came from poor families and they were despised by people because of their profession.

Read the book "The Rough Guide To Beijing" by Martin Zatko. He writes in his book that most eunuch came from poor families and even volunteered for their emasculation as a way of acquiring wealth and influence. During the Ming dynasty the operation cost six silver pieces and was performed in a hut just outside the imperial palace walls.Hot pepper water was used to numb the parts, then after the blade had flashed the wound was sealed with a solder plug. The plug would be removed six days later, if urine gushed out then the operation was a success. If this outcome did not occur then the eunuch would have most probably died as a result. Confucianism held the theory that disfiguration of the body impaired the soul, henceforth this was one of the main reasons why eunuch's carried their severed genitals in a jar.

Read the book "The Human Tradition In Pre-Modern China" by Kenneth James Hammond". Young boys were offered to the imperial court and if they were accepted they underwent the surgical removal of their genitals. This was seen as a harsh fate,but for poor families who could barely support themselves, it offered a way to guarantee survival. Not only would the chosen boy for this role have a livelihood in the palace, but he would also be able to provide support for his family.

China`s Last Imperial Eunuch Tells His Story - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

This article is on Sun Yaoting the last eunuch of China who came from a poor family. However I will correct my previous statement on proclaiming that eunuch just came from poor families. Different dynasties followed different rules. For example eunuchs are mentioned in the "Book of Odes" and the "Book of Documents" which are two Chinese classical text. It does mention that men were castrated and were forced to finish menial tasks in the palace. However this later changed in successive dynasties where eunuchs came as gifts from tributary states which is different to war prisoners. However the vast majority came from poor backgrounds. This validates my previous statements to other Chinese posters who believe that Chinese civilization has never evolved and changed. Clearly the initiation of eunuchs and their status in society was changed over the centuries.

Furthermore, I will admit to the notion that ZhengHe was not a good example to show how a eunuch came from a poor family background. The white eunuchs came from the Balkans and like their Black counterparts they were purchased from slave traders, because its forbidden to emasculate a male in Islam. However, like I mentioned previously the Ottoman empire did some amazing things, although it can be argued that they also committed terrible things. However the Ottoman empire does not represent Islam. Please elaborate on your last sentence.

Haha you hit the nail buddy!
Out favourite is pork. My saying, "you can take a Chinese away from China, but you can't take pork away from a Chinese" lol...
The time I stop eating pork is when I am dead.
Sorry to offend some Muslims here. I'll never join Islam even if my life depended on it.

Fair enough your preferences should be respected and no one has the right to stop your consumption of pork. However please in turn respect the idea if some Chinese do wish to follow Islam or any other religion. No one is claiming that Islam will overtake China, however some members from China should not label all Muslims as bad, because indirectly you are insulting Pakistan and even your fellow Chinese Muslim comrades. Everyone should be respected so that we can achieve a harmonious society.

 

[Tanu90]

I hear that plenty of Indonesians are leaving Islam for Christianity - is it true or just rumors?.

It's a catching up trend in UK though where plenty are becoming atheist.

Even in India where many Muslims are becoming atheists or closer to it.... though it's being countered by many Muslims who are becoming wahhabi.

i won't say that's true or wrong, but there are people change their religion from islam to another religion and vice versa.

No way friend, the truth is Indonesian Muslim has become more religious. More people using hijab, many celebrities using hijab as well. If you check Pew Research, you can see that Indonesian is actually religious people despite its liberal culture.

We have 89 percent Muslim here and Today many see Islam as Modern thing, not backward idea anymore. It has good image in Indonesia as many successful people and celebrities are devoted Muslim.

This one Ilham Habibie who wants to make R-80 passenger aircraft is devoted Muslim and is one of leader in ICMI (Muslim intellectual group)

Ilham Habibie (intellectuals and tech entrepreneur)

There are even a hijab competition in Indonesia and this one is the winner last year

Mouzalina (she has Arab and Turkic blood)

Many celebrities are using Hijab as well

Oki Setiana Dewi

You can see here that the way Muslim Indonesian women wearing hijab is different, more colorful and using current design.

What I can say is that many rich families has their daughters using hijab nowadays. In my big family almost all women using hijab voluntarily.

Islam has good image in Indonesia.

it is good if muslim become more religious, but i'm afraid it isn't as good as what you said.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Read the book "World History Since 1500: The Ages Of Global Integration" by Jiu-Hwa Upshur, Janice Terry, Jim Holoka,George Cassar and Richard Goff. Page 542-543 clears states that the vast majority of eunuch's came from poor families and they were despised by people because of their profession.

Read the book "The Rough Guide To Beijing" by Martin Zatko. He writes in his book that most eunuch came from poor families and even volunteered for their emasculation as a way of acquiring wealth and influence. During the Ming dynasty the operation cost six silver pieces and was performed in a hut just outside the imperial palace walls.Hot pepper water was used to numb the parts, then after the blade had flashed the wound was sealed with a solder plug. The plug would be removed six days later, if urine gushed out then the operation was a success. If this outcome did not occur then the eunuch would have most probably died as a result. Confucianism held the theory that disfiguration of the body impaired the soul, henceforth this was one of the main reasons why eunuch's carried their severed genitals in a jar.

Read the book "The Human Tradition In Pre-Modern China" by Kenneth James Hammond". Young boys were offered to the imperial court and if they were accepted they underwent the surgical removal of their genitals. This was seen as a harsh fate,but for poor families who could barely support themselves, it offered a way to guarantee survival. Not only would the chosen boy for this role have a livelihood in the palace, but he would also be able to provide support for his family.

China`s Last Imperial Eunuch Tells His Story - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

This article is on Sun Yaoting the last eunuch of China who came from a poor family. However I will correct my previous statement on proclaiming that eunuch just came from poor families. Different dynasties followed different rules. For example eunuchs are mentioned in the "Book of Odes" and the "Book of Documents" which are two Chinese classical text. It does mention that men were castrated and were forced to finish menial tasks in the palace. However this later changed in successive dynasties where eunuchs came as gifts from tributary states which is different to war prisoners. However the vast majority came from poor backgrounds. This validates my previous statements to other Chinese posters who believe that Chinese civilization has never evolved and changed. Clearly the initiation of eunuchs and their status in society was changed over the centuries.

Furthermore, I will admit to the notion that ZhengHe was not a good example to show how a eunuch came from a poor family background. The white eunuchs came from the Balkans and like their Black counterparts they were purchased from slave traders, because its forbidden to emasculate a male in Islam. However, like I mentioned previously the Ottoman empire did some amazing things, although it can be argued that they also committed terrible things. However the Ottoman empire does not represent Islam. Please elaborate on your last sentence.



Fair enough your preferences should be respected and no one has the right to stop your consumption of pork. However please in turn respect the idea if some Chinese do wish to follow Islam or any other religion. No one is claiming that Islam will overtake China, however some members from China should not label all Muslims as bad, because indirectly you are insulting Pakistan and even your fellow Chinese Muslim comrades. Everyone should be respected so that we can achieve a harmonious society.

I don't need to read "Rough Guide To Beijing". Do I need a guide on China written by a white man, when I'm myself Chinese and educated in Chinese? Are you insulting me?

Now I'm going to assume you are a rational person. Otherwise, we have nothing else to discuss. Pork is different than the status of eunuchs. The source of eunuchs changed widely across the centuries (but of course, whether domestic or foreign, they were always from an underclass that had little choice). Pork is part of the Chinese diet. To suggest changing it will be met with accusations of extremism. Chinese culture traditionally has only changed radically by force from barbarians, such as the adoption of pants outside the military and cutting hair, forced onto Chinese by Manchus. Pork is just as important to us today, as not cutting hair and being free to wear robes was in late Ming China. And unlike late Ming, today we have the power to defend our traditions.

 

[xyxmt]

Recognised ?

Does it mean that Officially China feels that other religions do not exist or are not good enough ?

@Chinese-Dragon

you dont count anywhere, havent you learned yet

 

[Rasengan]

I don't need to read "Rough Guide To Beijing". Do I need a guide on China written by a white man, when I'm myself Chinese and educated in Chinese? Are you insulting me?

Now I'm going to assume you are a rational person. Otherwise, we have nothing else to discuss. Pork is different than the status of eunuchs. The source of eunuchs changed widely across the centuries (but of course, whether domestic or foreign, they were always from an underclass that had little choice). Pork is part of the Chinese diet. To suggest changing it will be met with accusations of extremism. Chinese culture traditionally has only changed radically by force from barbarians, such as the adoption of pants outside the military and cutting hair, forced onto Chinese by Manchus. Pork is just as important to us today, as not cutting hair and being free to wear robes was in late Ming China. And unlike late Ming, today we have the power to defend our traditions.

Your logic is truly astounding because you have criticized me in using a western source to supplement my argument, however you were bold enough to use Wikipedia in your previous correspondence. Academically you would have been reprimanded even in China for using such a source to defend your point of view. Just because an individual is Chinese and is educated in the language, does not automatically mean that person is knowledgeable on a particular subject. The same characteristics hold true for a Pakistan on Islamic history and the English on British history. Now I can easily access Chinese authors on this topic, by sending a Wechat message to my good friend who studies in Tsinghua University to soothe your rattled mind. Furthermore, Pakistani's in general such as myself are very direct in their opinions just like people from Sichuan and Chongqing, therefore If I wanted to insult you personally then you would definitely feel it, because I am vicious with words when an individual irritates me. However on the context of this discussion, my mind is not even remotely concerned with insulting anyone even though some Chinese members have attacked Islam for no apparent logical reason.

Again please read the next sentence with meticulous attention because clearly your understanding of my point of view is lacking. History has shown repeatedly that all cultures tend to change and evolve through time, because public perception and preferences alter. What is fashionable today is out-dated tomorrow and this assumption is common sense. By claiming something can never change is a flawed ideology because it leads to blind arrogance. Like I said previously even in the Middle East traditions and cultures can change overtime. Now I would agree on the conjecture that some eunuchs did not have much choice because in some cases there genitals were severed forcibly, however in other cases it was done voluntarily by poor families, thus representing one of the most powerful blocks in the imperial court that had the ear of the Emperor. Yes Pork is considered to be part of the Chinese diet, however did you forget all the other 56 ethnic groups who also live and claim to be part of the Chinese civilization. Just because the Han culture revolves around pork, does not mean other ethnic groups or religions follow such a trend. Anyway If you have problems with my argument then you don't need to reply back. However I would like to make it crystal clear to all Chinese members, you can attack radical Muslims and I would even defend your case against them, since during this last month I have been one of the most vocal members who have supported China's proactive stance in Xinjiang, however under no circumstance does that give you the right to label all Muslims as bad and brainwashed as mentioned by some Chinese members, because then you are directly insulting Pakistani's and even the Chinese Muslims.

 

[Indos]

it is good if muslim become more religious, but i'm afraid it isn't as good as what you said.

What I mean as more religious should be seen in a holistic way, based on true Islamic teaching. This guy will automatically become more just, tolerance, fair, and kind toward people.

Having a good level of Islamic religiosity is not something easy and simple. For instant, this year I had a verbal fight that can lead into a physical confrontation with a person who always pray five time a day at the mosque. This person is eager on power, he likes to abuse weaker people and talk big. A sickness in the heart is something that is difficult to be cured, and this kind of people are many every where, he can be Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Budhis, etc. And it is an obligation for all Muslim to prevent this kind of people getting any superiority in real life since they like to abuse people once they get power. We can call it as a Jihad in our side.

So we need to separate what a good Muslim is with Muslim who is only good at ritual but dont pay any attention to purify their heart and to establish justice (since they are abusing people and act not fair).

 

[illusion8]

No way friend, the truth is Indonesian Muslim has become more religious. More people using hijab, many celebrities using hijab as well. If you check Pew Research, you can see that Indonesian is actually religious people despite its liberal culture.

We have 89 percent Muslim here and Today many see Islam as Modern thing, not backward idea anymore. It has good image in Indonesia as many successful people and celebrities are devoted Muslim.

This one Ilham Habibie who wants to make R-80 passenger aircraft is devoted Muslim and is one of leader in ICMI (Muslim intellectual group)

Ilham Habibie (intellectuals and tech entrepreneur)

There are even a hijab competition in Indonesia and this one is the winner last year

Mouzalina (she has Arab and Turkic blood)

Many celebrities are using Hijab as well

Oki Setiana Dewi

You can see here that the way Muslim Indonesian women wearing hijab is different, more colorful and using current design.

What I can say is that many rich families has their daughters using hijab nowadays. In my big family almost all women using hijab voluntarily.

Islam has good image in Indonesia.

Pretty ladies there Indos.

I appreciate the form of Islam practiced in Indonesia, quite moderate and rooted to your Indonesian culture. I wish that was true for other regions where Islam is present as well. I asked that particular question because i came across some articles and videos (not very authentic) of muslims converting to christianity in numbers. ...nothing wrong per se.

 

[prima99]

You don't understand Japanese mentality. Muslims make up 0.01% of their population, if their Muslim population is around 5-10% it won't be so cute and cuddly.

nah. you're underestimating the japanese. they can stay cute, can stay making AV videos, and all, it doesn't matter. Japanese will stay as Japanese. the only things that change is that they're muslim as their religion if they choose to be, that's it. it's like how us Indonesians drinking and making beer, even though it's "haram" in most muslim countries.

can muslim into cosplay? here is a muslim Hatsune Miku!

 

[Indos]

Pretty ladies there Indos.

I appreciate the form of Islam practiced in Indonesia, quite moderate and rooted to your Indonesian culture. I wish that was true for other regions where Islam is present as well. I asked that particular question because i came across some articles and videos (not very authentic) of muslims converting to christianity in numbers. ...nothing wrong per se.

Actually Islam itself is moderate, it becomes hard because of the interpreter. Quran itself is evolving, like in the beginning Muslim can drink alcohol but it cannot later. Actually the root of recent Islam teaching in Indonesia comes from Makkah, since two biggest Islamic organisation ( Muhammadiyah and Nahdatul Ulama ) founder learn from Indonesian Masjidil Haram Imam.


Shaikh Ahmad Khatib al-Minangkabawi (1860 – 1916) was a Minangkabau Indonesian Islamic teacher. He was born in Koto Tuo, Ampek Angkek, Agam Regency, West Sumatra on 6 Dzulhijjah 1276 H (1860 M) and died in Mecca on 8 Jumadil Awal 1334 H (1916 M).[1] He served as the head (imam) of the Shafi'i school of law at the mosque of Mecca (Masjid al-Haram). Many Indonesian Islamic reformist leaders learned from him, including Ahmad Dahlan, as founder Muhammadiyah and Hasyim Asyari, as founderNahdlatul Ulama.[2]

Although Ahmad Khatib was an orthodox Sunni Muslim, he still hoped to reconcile the matrilineal system in Minangkabau with the laws of inheritance prescribed in the Quran. Through his Minangkabau students who studied in Mecca and well as those he taught in Indonesia, he encouraged a modified Minangkabau culture based on al-Quran and the Sunnah.

His son, Sheikh Abdulhameed Alkhateeb, was the first Saudi Arabian ambassador to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. And his grand son, Fouad Abdulhameed Alkhateeb, was a Saudi Arabian ambassador, humanitarian, author, and businessman. In his capacity as a diplomat, he represented his homeland in Pakistan, Iraq, the United States of America, the Federal Republic of Nigeria, the Republic of Turkey, the People's Republic of Bangladesh, Nepal, and finally as Saudi ambassador to Malaysia.

Ahmad Khatib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nah. you're underestimating the japanese. they can stay cute, can stay making AV videos, and all, it doesn't matter. Japanese will stay as Japanese. the only things that change is that they're muslim as their religion if they choose to be, that's it. it's like how us Indonesians drinking and making beer, even though it's "haram" in most muslim countries.

can muslim into cosplay? here is a muslim Hatsune Miku!

So, you smoke, drink beer, and also a woman..........

Only Non-Muslim and very low percentage of Muslim in Indonesia who drinks beer, some ( the naughty one ) maybe drink it when they were still at high school but overall, lets say about 80% Indonesian Muslim follow the order in Quran not to drink a beer as it is considered Haram.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS: That girl is Indonesian right...? he,he Hatsune Miku is a comic character ( just found it in google after you post it),