Musharraf VS Imran Khan: Who is best at handling foreign policy ?

[EagleEyes]

During Musharraf's era we were given money and $$$ but the country's sovereignty was also put on stake and this current regime is just following the same policies agreed by the Musharraf era and all we can do is - count $$$ and sell our mother in exchange

Except during Musharraf's rule economy was stable, black/blue/yellow water personnel weren't moving freely, attacks were mostly limited (even at the height of Taliban power).

 

[Hyde]

Except during Musharraf's rule economy was stable, black/blue/yellow water personnel weren't moving freely, attacks were mostly limited (even at the height of Taliban power).

Well when the Taliban were in power, there was no attack in Pakistan. I can't remember any

The attacks began taking place once the Americans entered and took complete control of Afghanistan and the Talibans started absorbing Gorilla war tactics...

The attacks increased and so did the Tablian's set up in Pakistan all under the era of Musharraf

Musharraf never had a soft policy for anybody... he always encouraged to take action and rather negotiate dialogue with anybody and when he was stepped down... the plant of antipathy had grown to become a tree. I hate Talibans perhaps more than you but at the same time It was all under the nose of Musharraf when they flourished and spread like a wildfire in Pakistan. He wasn't able to contain them anywhere and under this PPP government all they had to do is to continue the war on terror, fight with its people in Swat and try to pacify relationships with the people of Balochistan. All messed up during Musharraf's regime

 

[moha199]

like i said many times. and ill say it again. first of all Zak you are supposed to be senior member who understand all this and not to be given classes like 101 what happen and where did the aid go. We all know that where those 10 billion dollars went! only 1 billion or less was spent on economy so your argument that world gave backing to Musharraf is totally wrong. you may say that the policy during mushrraf time regarding economy was right, let me give you an example, do you remember what happen when there was an oil spill in oceans and US beaches were damaged but soon americans cleaned their mess and first thing was done that OBAMA went to beach and jumped in water with his daughter and also the youngest one, which gave the impression to the tourist that our beaches are clean and you must come back to USA and enjoy your vacations at american beaches. well this is what exactly Musharraf used to do! he promoted each sector himself by putting himself as a middle man and gained trust of world that it is safe to invest in Pakistan! now if your other leaders or no leaders failed to do what Musharraf did then why blame Mushrraf and praise world and aid money? WTF. now coming to your argument that people like so called educated class of pakistan is so stupid which falls for the propoganda of media and opposition and now they hate Musharraf! let me remind you that upto jan 20 2008 USA wanted to put 30 again ONLY 30 security agents on Pakistani soil and Musharraf threaten to USA that he will not let it happen but now when Musharraf is gone first night 469 visas were issued and we all know this from our media now and after Musharraf there were 10,000 visas were issued to Americans and blame is put on Musharraf but question is that did Musharraf allow anyone? upto 2008 i remember Musharraf was threatening USA that he will not allow those 30 trainers to Pakistan if another incident like this happen in Pakistan "remember when usa fired on pakistani soil and killed 11 FC personals and Pakistani forces shot back at nato forces and where Musharraf gave historic threat to bush's argument when bush said that he will put american troops in Pakistani soil and Musharraf said it right away in singapore visit that I DARE ANYONE TO ENTER OUR MOUNTAINS, YOU WILL REGRET THAT DAY!" does it ring a bell or you want me to post the link?

But what people do not want to understand is - the life does not stop at dollar, dollar and dollars

He was good in some matters (most related to economy) but extremely failed in other sensitive issues.

He ruled the country for about 10 years so the economy was bound to increase up to certain extents... during 90s all regimes were under sanctions comparing to Musharraf's regime which was rather backed by the foreign nations and were getting aid from all over the world. It was not because of Musharraf's ability but the whole world came to Pakistan for support in the War on Terror or in my opinion that was more like a mutual understanding by all parties.

Figures makes a lot difference but I always like to give the example from that movie that Spain conquered Brazil by force, won the land but ultimately all of its soldiers were killed... Portugal conquered Brazil and instead of force they absorbed the give away policy... put them under immense pressure of "Thankfulness" and then commanded them what to do... and now 99% of Brazil speaks Portuguese as their native language.

During Musharraf's era we were given money and $$$ but the country's sovereignty was also put on stake and this current regime is just following the same policies agreed by the Musharraf era and all we can do is - count $$$ and sell our people in exchange

 

[Rafael]

Three reasons for what Musharaff would have been executed had this been any other sane country:

1- Bowing down to American pressure and getting involved in America's war.
2- Letting Taliban and AQ find safe heavens in FATA and NW after Tora Bora Operation.
3- Issuing NRO and letting every crook and thief come back to the country and contest elections which lead to this PPP govt.

Yeah he was a commando, an SSG.

My foot!!

 

[Hyde]

like i said many times. and ill say it again. first of all Zak you are supposed to be senior member who understand all this and not to be given classes like 101 what happen and where did the aid go. We all know that where those 10 billion dollars went! only 1 billion or less was spent on economy so your argument that world gave backing to Musharraf is totally wrong. you may say that the policy during mushrraf time regarding economy was right, let me give you an example, do you remember what happen when there was an oil spill in oceans and US beaches were damaged but soon americans cleaned their mess and first thing was done that OBAMA went to beach and jumped in water with his daughter and also the youngest one, which gave the impression to the tourist that our beaches are clean and you must come back to USA and enjoy your vacations at american beaches. well this is what exactly Musharraf used to do! he promoted each sector himself by putting himself as a middle man and gained trust of world that it is safe to invest in Pakistan! now if your other leaders or no leaders failed to do what Musharraf did then why blame Mushrraf and praise world and aid money? WTF. now coming to your argument that people like so called educated class of pakistan is so stupid which falls for the propoganda of media and opposition and now they hate Musharraf! let me remind you that upto jan 20 2008 USA wanted to put 30 again ONLY 30 security agents on Pakistani soil and Musharraf threaten to USA that he will not let it happen but now when Musharraf is gone first night 469 visas were issued and we all know this from our media now and after Musharraf there were 10,000 visas were issued to Americans and blame is put on Musharraf but question is that did Musharraf allow anyone? upto 2008 i remember Musharraf was threatening USA that he will not allow those 30 trainers to Pakistan if another incident like this happen in Pakistan "remember when usa fired on pakistani soil and killed 11 FC personals and Pakistani forces shot back at nato forces and where Musharraf gave historic threat to bush's argument when bush said that he will put american troops in Pakistani soil and Musharraf said it right away in singapore visit that I DARE ANYONE TO ENTER OUR MOUNTAINS, YOU WILL REGRET THAT DAY!" does it ring a bell or you want me to post the link?

well i have had enough arguments in past

See pressler amendment had forced our economy to low growth rate during 90s and there is no doubt both PPP and PML-N were only failures and are most corrupt parties in Pakistan but lets see everything in right angle.

When Musharraf came, almost all sanctions were lifted and the world itself was offering lucrative offers to Pakistan to seek their support in War on Terror. That was not a standalone policy by Pakistan but the entire world witnessed statements from foreign nations saying "USA awarded F-16s contract to Pakistan for their support in War on Terror" and other nations provided funds, investment and other stuff only for the sole sake.

Now I can remember there were only 1G mobile phones during 90s and the telecommunication industry was very limited but since past 10 years this industry expanded multiple times and increasing like 50% each year. There was also very small industry for IT, Electronic Media and various electronic devices introduced in past 10 years. These industries increased by multiple times resulting in billions of dollars worth of investment all over the world by the top entities of each respective company and directly reflecting towards the growth rate of each nation. This growth rate was not only limited to Pakistan but the entire world witnessed similar growth rate (especially the poor states thanks to their cheap labour).

I am not taking any credit away from Musharraf but still these growth rate and figures do not reflect the complete image of Pakistan. See a poor man in Pakistan whose basic earning was probably 1000 rupees 10 years ago was able to buy more food for himself than what he is buying with 5000 rupees in today's era. There has been higher inflation than the growth rate or rise in salaries. The life-style of poor man has further been hampered instead of comfort you may have been thinking about. See I could eat my whole school lunch back in 90s with only 5 rupees or buy good quality of clothes with less than 500 rupees but nowadays you won't get a quality cloth for less than 8000 rupees on any good shopping centre. So if the salary of a poor man increased and so did the inflation?

Most of the growth what Musharraf era shows was largely benefited to the richer people of Pakistan and middle class up to certain extent. Now if you say Musharraf gave a blunt statement against American invasion in Pakistan then I would have to take it as a mere statement because he was the one who allowed drone attacks in the country and he was the one who allowed Blackwater and intelligence agencies in Pakistan. If you don't believe just type on youtube and you will find videos dating back to 2007 when blackwater and other intelligence agencies was roaming freely in Pakistan.

Yes he did brought $$$ in the country but at the same time he also brought drone attacks, blackwater, intelligence agencies, suicide bombers and extremism in the country. What about those people that he sold to America and were later released by the Americans finding them innocents and torchering them for an year or more than that? Who is responsible for anger of Baloch brothers? Who is responsible for NRO topi-drama that has put puppets and clowns in command who should have rather be living behind the bars.... it can be very long

PS: I am senior member does not mean i must follow anyone's opinion... I am a Pakistani and reserve my right to give my opinion. I like Musharraf for various economic policies but at the same time I hate him for having a very weak foreign policy that us forced us to be felt like a criminal state before the world.

 

[S.M.R]

imran is the better option you see a man sitting having tea with common people sleeping on the floor i mean its impressive

If that is the criteria then what about Marvi Memon

 

[z9-ec]

well i have had enough arguments in past

See pressler amendment had forced our economy to low growth rate during 90s and there is no doubt both PPP and PML-N were only failures and are most corrupt parties in Pakistan but lets see everything in right angle.

When Musharraf came, almost all sanctions were lifted and the world itself was offering lucrative offers to Pakistan to seek their support in War on Terror. That was not a standalone policy by Pakistan but the entire world witnessed statements from foreign nations saying "USA awarded F-16s contract to Pakistan for their support in War on Terror" and other nations provided funds, investment and other stuff only for the sole sake.

Good lord, PRESLER AMENDENT was NOT I repeat NOT part of economic sanctions! there never were any economic sanctions. Have you ever read the amendment? it was purely military related.

BTW, IF Imran Khan comes into power expect the same reaction from the US. They will not give you spares for F-16s, cobras, bells, UH-1s and etc.

Economic sanctions came into existence post 1998 after the test.

Now I can remember there were only 1G mobile phones during 90s and the telecommunication industry was very limited but since past 10 years this industry expanded multiple times and increasing like 50% each year. There was also very small industry for IT, Electronic Media and various electronic devices introduced in past 10 years. These industries increased by multiple times resulting in billions of dollars worth of investment all over the world by the top entities of each respective company and directly reflecting towards the growth rate of each nation. This growth rate was not only limited to Pakistan but the entire world witnessed similar growth rate (especially the poor states thanks to their cheap labour).

Investor friendly environment was the result of this exponential growth.

I am not taking any credit away from Musharraf but still these growth rate and figures do not reflect the complete image of Pakistan. See a poor man in Pakistan whose basic earning was probably 1000 rupees 10 years ago was able to buy more food for himself than what he is buying with 5000 rupees in today's era. There has been higher inflation than the growth rate or rise in salaries. The life-style of poor man has further been hampered instead of comfort you may have been thinking about. See I could eat my whole school lunch back in 90s with only 5 rupees or buy good quality of clothes with less than 500 rupees but nowadays you won't get a quality cloth for less than 8000 rupees on any good shopping centre. So if the salary of a poor man increased and so did the inflation?

And the world is wrong to accept GDP growth as an indication of improvement in economic state of a country? come on.

Most of the growth what Musharraf era shows was largely benefited to the richer people of Pakistan and middle class up to certain extent. Now if you say Musharraf gave a blunt statement against American invasion in Pakistan then I would have to take it as a mere statement because he was the one who allowed drone attacks in the country and he was the one who allowed Blackwater and intelligence agencies in Pakistan. If you don't believe just type on youtube and you will find videos dating back to 2007 when blackwater and other intelligence agencies was roaming freely in Pakistan.

Even the illiterate agree the rapid expansion of the middle class in Pakistan

Yes he did brought $$$ in the country but at the same time he also brought drone attacks, blackwater, intelligence agencies, suicide bombers and extremism in the country. What about those people that he sold to America and were later released by the Americans finding them innocents and torchering them for an year or more than that? Who is responsible for anger of Baloch brothers? Who is responsible for NRO topi-drama that has put puppets and clowns in command who should have rather be living behind the bars.... it can be very long

PS: I am senior member does not mean i must follow anyone's opinion... I am a Pakistani and reserve my right to give my opinion. I like Musharraf for various economic policies but at the same time I hate him for having a very weak foreign policy that us forced us to be felt like a criminal state before the world.

NRO was his mistake, he repeatedly accepted it. Nonetheless, NRO did NOT ELECT PPP and PML-N. They were elected by the people of Pakistan.

Dollars did not come in as bakhsheesh/aid. They were in terms of foreign investment and various other economic program which Moha has already mentioned.

 

[z9-ec]

Three reasons for what Musharaff would have been executed had this been any other sane country:

1- Bowing down to American pressure and getting involved in America's war.

I'm eagerly waiting for people to see if he comes into power what he will do.

It's easier to say things that please the masses but once you're President of Pakistan and told about the ground realities. Things change. He himself mentioned a few days ago on national TV that if Pakistan pulls out of WoT Pakistan will suffer loss in terms of KHARABS of ruppees.

Pakistan needs friends not enemies as I mentioned earlier. Having the worlds only super power as your enemy would be disastrous.

2- Letting Taliban and AQ find safe heavens in FATA and NW after Tora Bora Operation.

He was the first army general to confront extremists and recognize the threat they are to Pakistan. Had he not joined WoT, the consequences were severe to say the least. I think Abottabad raid vindicates it

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

Imran Khan is a born leader, he will learn and lead Pakistan to greatness.

Probably not going to happen though, Zardari/Nawaz are billionaires and have the pocket to win campaigns.

If he is what you say he is, please explain to me how he plans to confront and eliminate the threat of radicals and extremists?

A born leader makes bold decisions based on national interests and not to appease the masses.

Musharraf is the reason why Pakistan is in this mess in the first place. What was wrong in staying neutral? Why drag Pakistan into this never ending war OF terror which is destroying Pakistan.

Iran stayed out of this war OF terror, and it also has a long border with Afghanistan and has sea ports. Now look at Iran today and look at Pakistan.

Imran Khan is the only politician who cares for Pakistan and not his bank balance.

Staying neatral? is that a joke?

Don't you remember what happened in Abottabad few days ago? or are you in a state of oblivion.

 

[S.M.R]

 

[S.M.R]

Comparison of economy from Independent Sources:

Pak Economy in 1999 was: $ 75 billion (Source)
Pak Economy in 2007 is: $ 160 billion (Source) and (Source)
Pak Economy in 2008 is: $ 170 billion (Source) and (Source)

GDP Growth in 1999: 3.1 % (Source)
GDP Growth in 2005: 8.4 % (Source)
GDP Growth in 2007: 7 % (Source) and (Source)
GDP Growth in 2009: 2 % (Source) and (Source)

GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 1999: $ 270 billion (Source)
GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 2007: $ 475.5 billion (Source)
GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) in 2008: $ 504.3 billion (Source)

GDP per Capita Income in 1999: $ 450 (Source)
GDP per Capita Income in 2007: $ 921 (Source)
GDP per Capita Income in 2008: $1042 (Source)

Pak revenue collection 1999: Rs. 305 billion (Source)
Pak revenue collection 2007: Rs. 708 billion (Source) and (Source)
Pak revenue collection 2008: Rs. 990 billion (Source)
Pak revenue collection 2009: Rs. 1150 billion (Source) and (Source)

Pak Foreign reserves in 1999: $ 1.96 billion (Source)
Pak Foreign reserves in 2007: $ 16.4 billion (Source) and (Source)
Pak Foreign reserves in 2008: $ 8.89 billion (Source)
Pak Foreign reserves in 2009: $ 14.4 billion (Source)

Pak Exports in 1999: $ 8 billion (Source) & (Source)
Pak Exports in 2007: $ 18.5 billion (Source) & (Source)
Pak Exports in 2008: $ 19.22 billion (Source) & (Source)
Pak Exports in 2009: $ 17.78 billion (Source) & (Source)

Textile Exports in 1999: $ 5.5 billion (Source)
Textile Exports in 2007: $ 11.2 billion (Source)


Foreign Investment in 1999: $ 301 million (Source)
Foreign Investment in 2007: $ 8.4 billion (Source)
Foreign Investment in 2008: $ 5.19 billion (Source)

Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) in 1999: 1.5% ( Source)
Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) in 2005: 19.9% (Source)
Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) in 2007: 8.8% (Source)
Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) in 2008: 4.1% (Source) & (Source)
Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) in 2009: (-8.2 %) (Source)

Debt (External Debt & Liabilities) in 1988: $ 18 billion
Debt (External Debt & Liabilities) in 1999: $ 39 billion (Source) & (Source)
Debt (External Debt & Liabilities) in 2007: $ 40.5 billion (Source) & (Source)
Debt (External Debt & Liabilities) in 2009: $ 52 billion (Source) & (Source)

Debt servicing 1999: 65% of GDP (Source) & (Source)
Debt servicing 2007: 28.1% of GDP (Source) & (Source)
Debt servicing 2008: 27% of GDP (Source)
Debt servicing 2009: 32% of GDP (Source)

Poverty level in 1999: 34% (Source) and (Source)
Poverty level in 2007: 24% (Source) and (Source)

Literacy rate in 1999: 45% (Source)
Literacy rate in 2007: 53% (Source) and

Pak Development programs 1999: Rs. 80 billion (Source)
Pak Development programs 2007: Rs. 520 billion (Source)
Pak Development programs 2008: Rs. 549.7 billion (Source)
Pak Development programs 2010: Rs. 300 billion (Source)

Updated June 2010!

Compiled by our friends: Mirza Rohail B and Afreen Baig

The above figures speak themselves about the level of corruption between all the democratic govts. and his era.

As regard Pakistan's sovereignty sold for $$$, well, it was already been sold but the difference is that $$$ in mush era were used by Pakistan and in rest of the cases these are lying in Swiss accounts / Saudi Arabia.

other things which are normally taken as negative on part of mush, are
-Bugti Killing
-Lal Masjid Operation
-NRO
-Removal of Chief Justice


Well, i ll also post about the reality of these as well, to clarify Sir Mush Position.

I ll also post the prices comparison of commodities of basis necessities of life.

 

[Rafael]

I'm eagerly waiting for people to see if he comes into power what he will do.

It's easier to say things that please the masses but once you're President of Pakistan and told about the ground realities. Things change. He himself mentioned a few days ago on national TV that if Pakistan pulls out of WoT Pakistan will suffer loss in terms of KHARABS of ruppees.

Pakistan needs friends not enemies as I mentioned earlier. Having the worlds only super power as your enemy would be disastrous.

Ground realities? What ground realities? No Pakistani was involved in 9/11. If I'm not wrong, the then secretary of defense denied any calls to Musharaff threating him of being bombed to stone ages. Even if he did, what did they do about Iran after threatening them of an attack? North Korea?

He was the first army general to confront extremists and recognize the threat they are to Pakistan. Had he not joined WoT, the consequences were severe to say the least. I think Abottabad raid vindicates it

He was the head of the Govt and the army chief responsible for giving Taliban/AQ a safe place in Pakistan. Why did he let them have their sanctuaries in Pakistan in the first place?

And You didn't mention anything about NRO?

 

[S.M.R]

Ground realities? What ground realities? No Pakistani was involved in 9/11. If I'm not wrong, the then secretary of defense denied any calls to Musharaff threating him of being bombed to stone ages. Even if he did, what did they do about Iran after threatening them of an attack? North Korea?




He was the head of the Govt and the army chief responsible for giving Taliban/AQ a safe place in Pakistan. Why did he let them have their sanctuaries in Pakistan in the first place?

And You didn't mention anything about NRO?

Well it was decided by US to invade afghanistan, a clear message was given to Mush. Can you tell the other options we had at that time? You are able to post your views as you are not living in the country like Afghanistan / Iraq.

Where did he gave safe heavens to Taliban / AQ in Pakistan. They came into Pakistan from Afghanistan, due to unsecure border. He tried his best to secure (fencing) Afghan border, but US / Afghani govt. is strictly against that. Well you talk about Iran, it is on their strike list. First they needed to ensure their presence in the region through Afghanistan / Pakistan, they will certainly go after Iran. North Korea is entirely not comparable.

 

[z9-ec]

Ground realities? What ground realities? No Pakistani was involved in 9/11. If I'm not wrong, the then secretary of defense denied any calls to Musharaff threating him of being bombed to stone ages. Even if he did, what did they do about Iran after threatening them of an attack? North Korea?

Actions speak louder than words.

Abottabad. Ring any bells?

He was the head of the Govt and the army chief responsible for giving Taliban/AQ a safe place in Pakistan. Why did he let them have their sanctuaries in Pakistan in the first place?

And You didn't mention anything about NRO?

I have mentioned NRO read my previous posts.

 

[S.M.R]

Well, actually the comparison is Technically Wrong

What made me to say that, is we have tried Sir Mush and Imran is yet to be tried.

If one asks between the two, I will go with Mush as Pakistan is not in a Position of 'Experiments'.

Well....Both of them are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than other govts.

 

[moha199]

well i have had enough arguments in past

See pressler amendment had forced our economy to low growth rate during 90s and there is no doubt both PPP and PML-N were only failures and are most corrupt parties in Pakistan but lets see everything in right angle.

When Musharraf came, almost all sanctions were lifted and the world itself was offering lucrative offers to Pakistan to seek their support in War on Terror. That was not a standalone policy by Pakistan but the entire world witnessed statements from foreign nations saying "USA awarded F-16s contract to Pakistan for their support in War on Terror" and other nations provided funds, investment and other stuff only for the sole sake.

Now I can remember there were only 1G mobile phones during 90s and the telecommunication industry was very limited but since past 10 years this industry expanded multiple times and increasing like 50% each year. There was also very small industry for IT, Electronic Media and various electronic devices introduced in past 10 years. These industries increased by multiple times resulting in billions of dollars worth of investment all over the world by the top entities of each respective company and directly reflecting towards the growth rate of each nation. This growth rate was not only limited to Pakistan but the entire world witnessed similar growth rate (especially the poor states thanks to their cheap labour).

I am not taking any credit away from Musharraf but still these growth rate and figures do not reflect the complete image of Pakistan. See a poor man in Pakistan whose basic earning was probably 1000 rupees 10 years ago was able to buy more food for himself than what he is buying with 5000 rupees in today's era. There has been higher inflation than the growth rate or rise in salaries. The life-style of poor man has further been hampered instead of comfort you may have been thinking about. See I could eat my whole school lunch back in 90s with only 5 rupees or buy good quality of clothes with less than 500 rupees but nowadays you won't get a quality cloth for less than 8000 rupees on any good shopping centre. So if the salary of a poor man increased and so did the inflation?

Most of the growth what Musharraf era shows was largely benefited to the richer people of Pakistan and middle class up to certain extent. Now if you say Musharraf gave a blunt statement against American invasion in Pakistan then I would have to take it as a mere statement because he was the one who allowed drone attacks in the country and he was the one who allowed Blackwater and intelligence agencies in Pakistan. If you don't believe just type on youtube and you will find videos dating back to 2007 when blackwater and other intelligence agencies was roaming freely in Pakistan.

Yes he did brought $$$ in the country but at the same time he also brought drone attacks, blackwater, intelligence agencies, suicide bombers and extremism in the country. What about those people that he sold to America and were later released by the Americans finding them innocents and torchering them for an year or more than that? Who is responsible for anger of Baloch brothers? Who is responsible for NRO topi-drama that has put puppets and clowns in command who should have rather be living behind the bars.... it can be very long

PS: I am senior member does not mean i must follow anyone's opinion... I am a Pakistani and reserve my right to give my opinion. I like Musharraf for various economic policies but at the same time I hate him for having a very weak foreign policy that us forced us to be felt like a criminal state before the world.

again i failed to understand what you wanna say that ok it was Musharraf who did good and you don't wanna take away the credit but it happen because world was going towards modernization and Musharraf had to do it? lol bro to your last statement i never meant to say that you should follow me or anyone what i meant to say that you must be on this forum for long time and you must not forget what happen back then? You said that Musharraf threat was a mere statement! well that statement cost USA their soldiers life. some small scale battles and yet all was drama! you say that Musharraf allowed drone attacks? heck with your and your leaders kept accusing Musharraf for drone attacks! Musharraf had said it over 100 times that there were no permission to USA on drone attacks! ONLY surveillance! do you know what it means????? geez dude you guys are just kept beating drums. 9 drone attacks during Musharraf time from 2001 to 2008 6 were targeted towards pakistani terrorists, including mullah fm baitullah masood, etc. and after Musharraf 317 attacks. during Musharraf era, one drone attacks and 3 NATO supplies used to be burnt, NATO hamvees used to be stolen, during Musharraf time, USA used to say we apologize and after Musharraf USA say we will do it more and do what you wanna do! yet Musharraf is bad, what did you want? PAF shooting drones down? and then FA18 coming along with drones and taking out first Pakistani instillations then bomb ruthlessly so then the entire world say that what a force Pakistan is? did you forget recent OBL operation? what happen to Pakistani technology? people like you forget that there is something called stealth technology and also they forget that we are 3rd world country and even China doesn't share that technology with Pakistan. it reminds me of a saying "khasyani billi challi khamba nochnay" you spoke of that Pakistan was sanctioned? dude it was only military sanction! during 90s Pakistan recived 2.5 billion in loan grants and aid, but it was strictly none military, you mentioned that Musharraf was given F16 and seriously ZAK never get blind in hate, It was Musharraf who was running around to complete JF17 project, sometimes he was going to Germany sometimes he was going to russia for engines sometimes he was going to Switzerland etc we all know how we put up all this, we also know that how Musharraf was running around to ukrine to get the engines for ALKHALID etc, all was done so Pakistan come out of american control atleast military wise and he did well on this and today we are posting that INDIA acknowledge PAF as superior force! you mentioned that today people are saying that we are way behind and true they are believing this and saying this but is it because of Musharraf? WTF for 8 years this guy kept prices in control and pakistani economy on rising and new government came and they raised prices, blamed it on Musharraf because he was amir and it is easy to do that then they shut down the electric by doing fake propaganda that Musharraf didn't make dams but actually he did but Pakistan is facing this problem because of not paying for oil which is used for electric so basically bad bills which current government didn't pay and put the money to their pockets and put the blame on Musharraf and people like you bought it as well. You mentioned NRO? it was your supreme Alla Hazrat CJ dajal who cleared ZARDARI and BB from 7 cases and now he is saying NRO is wrong, well me and everyone realized now including Musharraf that NRO was a bad POLITICAL move, but even according to NRO bb wasn't allowed to contest in election. i mean i have heard even IMRAN KHAN including hamid mir and all the talk show host saying during 2007 that how can these elections can be free and fair when two main stream parties and their leaders are not allowed to take hand in election? but when BB broke the deal and later killed by her husband, it was the Pakistani nation who voted for PPP and PMLN and now you wanna blame Musharraf? are you suggesting me that Musharraf intentionally made PMLQ lose election? no buddy it were the nation of Pakistan which picked these people according to QURAN " JESI QOOM WASAY HUKUMRAN" now this nation is paying for it and blaming on Musharraf, who took two bullets for this nation who fought three wars from front, who gave 50 years to this nation and yet he is traitor. a guy who is not even charged by his worst enemies that he is corrupt money wise! this old guy is working is butt of at the age of 67 by giving out lectures in the world and collecting money! for his election campaign and yet he is bad, lets stop this none sense, the thread was that if Musharraf gave best answer or IK i said Musharraf because he hit americans and indians on their dukti nabs by saying that 26/11 was a failure so was 911 but does it mean that RAW or CIA was working with terrorist?