Musalmani Bangla and its transformation

[Saiful Islam]

Waz Mahfil is not something the Mughals introduced although it may have been popularized, we could have not delivered our Mahfils without the loanwords of the Arabic and Persian script, we would either had to have delivered them in Urdu or Musulmani Bangla which exists but we term it as "Musulmani Bangla" as luckily we are educated, to the people of Bangladeshi it's just Bangla to them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is the problem. In my opinion, we are making a song and dance about nothing.

 

[khair_ctg]

I dont want to discuss on that as most of the Bangladeshis are happy with Bangla, I have no problems. Besides Bangla language helped to spread Islam lot more in this region. So its already a pure language. No country can develop without emphasizing its language and cultures.

you do seem happy that most Bangladeshis would be ignorant about the formal Hinduized Bengali. and they are too uneducated/gullible to understand how they are being dominated by Hindus and semi-Hindutva/Muslimphobic ideology when...

- they are told to replace their native Muslim-influenced dialects with the Hindu pandit Bengali
- they are taught that Urdu is a foreign language and discouraged from practicing it

..and this is all happening in a Muslim-majority place

this formal Bengali language was developed artificially by British and their most loyal Bengali babus in places like the Fort William College as a replacement for Farsi. Farsi was an official language and grew as a high culture language in Bengal since the very beginnings of the Muslim community in Bengal and the subcontinent.

the Muslim community never historically associated themselves with what they considered a pure Hindu language; instead they associated with Farsi and Urdu. Urdu is a prime example of a fusion between non-Sanskrit and Sanskrit. less educated Muslims also associated with other 'fused' languages like in Bengal, something between Farsi and Urdu and Sanskrit that is academically called Musalman Bengali. this somewhat exists today among Bengali Muslims between the various district/divisional dialects and the Bengali language of the ulema. this did not end up developing into a standardized formal language due to Bengali Muslims' poor socio-economic condition compared to colonial-era Hindus, and that educated Muslims of Bengal relied on Farsi and Urdu. Farsi and Urdu and their combination with yet other Sanskrit languages like Bengali are what worked as a vehicle for Islamic teachings to spread, and literature, arts and culture of different backgrounds to merge together in Bengal and elsewhere in the subcontinent. to say it was a pure Hindu-developed Sanskrit language that spread Islam in the land is absurd.

this formal Bengali (we hear in the news for example) is heavily Sanskrit, and is a drag on the potential of our people and will not take us any where.

if you claim to be a Muslim, try to be less of a self-hater. this formal Bengali language had zero Muslim input and has little to do with us Muslims. in fact it was consciously developed to get rid of as much Muslim influence as possible. this formal Bengali is a symbol of the low socio-economic position of Muslims and the oppression they had to face during colonial era. Rabrindranath Tagore was also in the same line of Hindu pandits that contributed to the development of this arguably artificial language and was seriously opposed to Muslim cultural influences. it is a disturbing reality that "Muslims" like you hold both the Hindu Bengali language and Rabindranath Tagore in such high regards, while ditching your own heritage.

 

[bongbang]

you do seem happy that most Bangladeshis would be ignorant about the formal Hinduized Bengali. and they are too uneducated/gullible to understand how they are being dominated by Hindus and semi-Hindutva/Muslimphobic ideology when...

- they are told to replace their native Muslim-influenced dialects with the Hindu pandit Bengali
- they are taught that Urdu is a foreign language and discouraged from practicing it

..and this is all happening in a Muslim-majority place

this formal Bengali language was developed artificially by British and their most loyal Bengali babus in places like the Fort William College as a replacement for Farsi. Farsi was an official language and grew as a high culture language in Bengal since the very beginnings of the Muslim community in Bengal and the subcontinent.

the Muslim community never historically associated themselves with what they considered a pure Hindu language; instead they associated with Farsi and Urdu. Urdu is a prime example of a fusion between non-Sanskrit and Sanskrit. less educated Muslims also associated with other 'fused' languages like in Bengal, something between Farsi and Urdu and Sanskrit that is academically called Musalman Bengali. this somewhat exists today among Bengali Muslims between the various district/divisional dialects and the Bengali language of the ulema. this did not end up developing into a standardized formal language due to Bengali Muslims' poor socio-economic condition compared to colonial-era Hindus, and that educated Muslims of Bengal relied on Farsi and Urdu. Farsi and Urdu and their combination with yet other Sanskrit languages like Bengali are what worked as a vehicle for Islamic teachings to spread, and literature, arts and culture of different backgrounds to merge together in Bengal and elsewhere in the subcontinent. to say it was a pure Hindu-developed Sanskrit language that spread Islam in the land is absurd.

this formal Bengali (we hear in the news for example) is heavily Sanskrit, and is a drag on the potential of our people and will not take us any where.

if you claim to be a Muslim, try to be less of a self-hater. this formal Bengali language had zero Muslim input and has little to do with us Muslims. in fact it was consciously developed to get rid of as much Muslim influence as possible. this formal Bengali is a symbol of the low socio-economic position of Muslims and the oppression they had to face during colonial era. Rabrindranath Tagore was also in the same line of Hindu pandits that contributed to the development of this arguably artificial language and was seriously opposed to Muslim cultural influences. it is a disturbing reality that "Muslims" like you hold both the Hindu Bengali language and Rabindranath Tagore in such high regards, while ditching your own heritage.

Ok first of all this is a defense forum for arms security etc. Not Musalmani or language protection defence.
Talking in a English Forum for Bangla makes high sense And I see many members here debunked this issue before, that Language has no religion.

See for the different Bangla dialects

English translation: "A man had two sons."
Bengali Shadhubhasha: "æk bektir duiṭi putrô chhilô." (P)
Nadia/CholtibhashaStandard: æk jon loker duţi chhele chhilo. (M)

Manikganj: æk zoner duiđi saoal asilo. (P)
Mymensingh: æk zôner dui put asil. (P)
Munshiganj(Bikrampur): æk jôner duiđa pola asilo. (P)
Comilla: æk bêđar dui put asil. (P)
Noakhali(Sandwip): æk shôksher dui beţa asilo.
Noakhali (Feni): æk zôner dui hola asil. (P)
Noakhali (Hatia): æk zôn mainsher duga hola asil. (P)
Noakhali (Ramganj): ek zôner dui hut asil. (P)
Barisal(Bakerganj): æk zôn mansher dugga pola asil. (P)
Faridpur: kero mansher duga pola asil. (P)
Sylhet: ex beṭar dui fut/fua asil/aslo. (M)
Chittagong: egua mansher dua poa asil. (P)
South Bengal dialects[edit]
Chuadanga : æk jon lokir duiţo chheile chhilo. (M)
Khulna: æk zon manshir dui sôoal silo. (P)
Jessore: æk zoner duţ sôl sêl. (P)
North Bengal dialects[edit]
Dinajpur: æk manusher dui chhaoa chhilô (P)
Pabna: kono mansher dui chhaoal chhilô. (P)
Bogra: æk jhôner dui bêţa chhoil achhilô. (P)
EastMalda: æk jhôn manuser duţa bêţa achhlô. (P)
Rangpur: æk zon mansher duikna bêţa asil. (P)

• Western Border dialects:

Manbhumi: ek loker duţa beţa chhilô. (M)
Hajong: ek zôn manôlôg duida pôla thakibar.
Chakma: ek jônôtun diba poa el.
Bengali dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now people talk in that many ways that no one can understand well. Khulna, Rajshai, Puran Dhaka, Mymenshing have different dialects. They may sound funny to one another. Sylheti, Noakhali, Chatgaia they are so hard for me that I cant understand what they are saying

From wiki

To a non-Bengali, these dialects may sound or look vastly different, but the difference is mostly a phonological and phonetic one, and not so much a grammatical one. Many dialects share features with the so-calledShadhu Bhashaor "pure language", which was the written standard until the 19th century. Comparison of Bengali dialects gives us an idea about archaic forms of the language as well.

During standardization of Bengali in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the cultural elite were mostly from the regions ofKolkata,Hooghly,Howrah,North 24 ParganasandNadia. What is accepted as the standard form today in both West Bengal and Bangladesh is based on the West-Central dialect. While the language has been standardized today through two centuries of education and media, variation is widespread, with many speakers familiar with or fluent in both their socio-geographical variety as well as the standard dialect used in the media.

So you can understand why we are using a standard dialect. So that everyone understand it well and language remain stable.

Now what is Muslamani Bangla? You think Musalmani Bangla dont exist? Then what are these words we using albat, namaj, kalam, allah, billah etc etc. So Muslamani bangla exist and not only Arbi, farsi but its getting influence from other languages as well.

Bangla first book was charyapad. And which was written by Buddists. So you can see every religions contributed to this religion Hindu, Muslim, Buddhists and Christians. So its a neutral secular language. And the language they used to write literates in 19th century are vastly different from today Bangla spoken in BD and India.

Language is ever changing and Im hopeful after 100 years people will talk in English only. Why develop other language. Where we can talk in same language. You are trying to give us impression that Bangladesh is a gift of India and its language is given by Hindus. We have nothing to do here. When people have got a stable platform to entracte and develop knowledge you want to get back to a utopian world. If you are too eager on Hindi/Urdu. Know that 50% Bengalis understand that and 100% can understand it by a short teachings as Bengali is Aryan language.

First of all Muslims have nothing to with tribalism, nationalism and literature. They are not here to contribute in this world. Loyalty is to another world. So why Muslims would develop something here. Muslims should be thankful to the people who developed Bangla. And today we can see lots of books in Bangla are written by Muslims. And if you are too eager on Musalmani Bangla then go to the slum dwellers who's forefathers never touched any books other than the green one. Im sure you will get a feel

 

[acid rain]

Damn!! Jamaatis trying to hype up what itself is an aberration and a vile assault on the senses -

WTF Is a musalmani, arabised, persianised, urduised, jamaatised, wahaabised bangla?........Other than a whole pile of gypsy camel hoe crap.

 

[khair_ctg]

Ok first of all this is a defense forum for arms security etc. Not Musalmani or language protection defence.
Talking in a English Forum for Bangla makes high sense And I see many members here debunked this issue before, that Language has no religion.

I want to say something
Ami kisu bolte chai
Ami kisu koite chai
Ai kisu koibar chai
Ar kisu koar achilo
Ami kisu bulte chai
Etc etc dialects of Bengali may be there to pronounce a single sentence

Now people talk in that many ways that no one can understand well. Khulna, Rajshai, Puran Dhaka, Mymenshing have different dialects. They may sound funny to one another. Sylheti, Noakhali, Chatgaia they are so hard for me that I can understand what they are saying

From wiki

To a non-Bengali, these dialects may sound or look vastly different, but the difference is mostly a phonological and phonetic one, and not so much a grammatical one. Many dialects share features with the so-calledShadhu Bhashaor "pure language", which was the written standard until the 19th century. Comparison of Bengali dialects gives us an idea about archaic forms of the language as well.

During standardization of Bengali in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the cultural elite were mostly from the regions ofKolkata,Hooghly,Howrah,North 24 ParganasandNadia. What is accepted as the standard form today in both West Bengal and Bangladesh is based on the West-Central dialect. While the language has been standardized today through two centuries of education and media, variation is widespread, with many speakers familiar with or fluent in both their socio-geographical variety as well as the standard dialect used in the media.

So you can understand why we are using a standard dialect. So that everyone understand it well and language remain stable.

Now what is Muslamani Bangla? You think Musalmani Bangla dont exist? Then what are these words we using albat, namaj, kalam, allah, billah etc etc. So Muslamani bangla exist and not only Arbi, farsi but its getting influence from other languages as well.

Bangla first book was charyapad. And which was written by Buddists. So you can see every religions contributed to this religion Hindu, Muslim, Buddhists and Christians. So its a neutral secular language. And the language they used to write literates in 19th century are vastly different from today Bangla spoken in BD and India.

Language is ever changing and Im hopeful after 100 years people will talk in English only. Why develop other language. Where we can talk in same language. You are trying to give us impression that Bangladesh is a gift of India and its language is given by Hindus. We have nothing to do here. When people have got a stable platform to entracte and develop knowledge you want to get back to a utopian world. If you are too eager on Hindi/Urdu. Know that 50% Bengalis understand that and 100% can understand it by a short teachings as Bengali is Aryan language.

First of all Muslims have nothing to with tribalism, nationalism and literature. They are not here to contribute in this world. Loyalty is to another world. So why Muslims would develop something here. Muslims should be thankful to the people who developed Bangla. And today we can see lots of books in Bangla are written by Muslims. And if you are too eager on Musalmani Bangla then go to the slum dwellers who's forefathers never touched any books other than the green one. Im sure you will get a feel

sorry this forum may include various strategic issues of Bangladesh, and it seems the poster who opened this thread knew that. in fact you said very correctly in an earlier statement that language and culture, especially including past history and politics, have strategic importance for any country. i am coming to that later - read on

your Wikpedia quote has it right. in fact. almost all educated Hindus in the subcontinent know such things. this formal version of Bengali could not have been developed by Muslims. and moreover this foreign language cannot be the only officially accepted/used language in our country, where such languages like Urdu or a Muslim version of Bengali is neglected.

Talking in a English Forum for Bangla makes high sense And I see many members here debunked this issue before, that Language has no religion.

who "debunked" what issue? especially if you have completed higher education by now, you should at least be intellectually open to acknowledging how the very Muslim community in Bengal started and grew over time. if you know that, how can you make such an irrelevant and meaningless statement like"Language has no religion" over here? and how can you even use that to justify erasing a certain community's heritage?

it is not a question of whether us unfortunate Bengali Muslims are 'less Muslim' or not because of this Hindu language. it is a question of whether you are a better person or not by how much neglect you are showing at the heritage of a 160 million-strong community getting historically suppressed and at present, erased in some ways.

you say in one place "No country can develop without emphasizing its language and cultures." and somewhere else, that we CAN adopt the Hindu language and culture as our own because "Muslims have nothing to with tribalism, nationalism and literature". why this contradiction? why does a Muslim community, because they happen to be Muslim, not have the right to practice their culture that grew organically, and instead have to adopt something else?

You are trying to give us impression that Bangladesh is a gift of India and its language is given by Hindus.

sorry the reality and facts suggest this. the Bangladesh landmass and its people, that formed in 1947, became colonized by India and a new political order came in place through brutal force. we are seeing the fruits of that today through the illegitimate Indian-imposed BAL government and a political system that turns the majority Muslim population into second class citizens.

i understand you did not grew up with such information and such information challenges the notions you became comfortable with.

 

[bongbang]

who "debunked" what issue? especially if you have completed higher education by now, you should at least be intellectually open to acknowledging how the very Muslim community in Bengal started and grew over time. if you know that, how can you make such an irrelevant and meaningless statement like"Language has no religion" over here? and how can you even use that to justify erasing a certain community's heritage?

Yes, we don't wear Dhooti because
The Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said,

"Whoever resembles a people is one of them." (Recorded by Abu Dawood)

Unfortunately every single one of us today dressed like Jews & Christian but that's not considered a problem to you guys. You guys are posting forum after forum on a topic that Islam didn't forbid. Muslims are allowed to use any language, but not to dress up like Jews & Christian. Our Prophet wanted differentiate Muslims specially from Jews & Christian but we are following Jews & Christian on every aspect of life.


Islam doesn't have any problem against any language, so stop trying to use Islam as tool for your personal vendetta against Bangla.


"Abdul Rehman" means "Doyalur Daas" not "Doyal Daas". Every one of is Allah's slave/daas. If u don't you know why Muslim name themselves in association with Allah, His Rasuls and our Prophet's Shahaba than here is a link

IslamiCity.com - Q & A

Even they said, "As for non-Arab names, there is nothing wrong in using them as names, so long as they bear good meanings in their language. Although the early Muslims were purely Arabs living in a pure Arab atmosphere, they found no harm in non-Arab names, as regards men and women. For example, "Mareyah" (the Mother of the Believers) who gave birth to Ibrahim, the son of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was known for her Coptic name."

Hence, my argument does hold weight with respect to fact on the ground.

Bhai Janera as fellow Muslim i would suggest stop trying prove something which is not in Qur'an & Hadith, instead use this time to study Qur'an & Hadith.

Yes, we don't wear Dhooti because
The Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said,

"Whoever resembles a people is one of them." (Recorded by Abu Dawood)

Unfortunately every single one of us today dressed like Jews & Christian but that's not considered a problem to you guys. You guys are posting forum after forum on a topic that Islam didn't forbid. Muslims are allowed to use any language, but not to dress up like Jews & Christian. Our Prophet wanted differentiate Muslims specially from Jews & Christian but we are following Jews & Christian on every aspect of life.


Islam doesn't have any problem against any language, so stop trying to use Islam as tool for your personal vendetta against Bangla.


"Abdul Rehman" means "Doyalur Daas" not "Doyal Daas". Every one of is Allah's slave/daas. If u don't you know why Muslim name themselves in association with Allah, His Rasuls and our Prophet's Shahaba than here is a link

IslamiCity.com - Q & A

Even they said, "As for non-Arab names, there is nothing wrong in using them as names, so long as they bear good meanings in their language. Although the early Muslims were purely Arabs living in a pure Arab atmosphere, they found no harm in non-Arab names, as regards men and women. For example, "Mareyah" (the Mother of the Believers) who gave birth to Ibrahim, the son of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was known for her Coptic name."

Hence, my argument does hold weight with respect to fact on the ground.

Bhai Janera as fellow Muslim i would suggest stop trying prove something which is not in Qur'an & Hadith, instead use this time to study Qur'an & Hadith.

this foreign language cannot be the only officially accepted/used language in our country, where such languages like Urdu or a Muslim version of Bengali is neglected.

Why there is a confusion I cant understand. Bangla is full of Arabic Farsi words. Just open a grammar book. Why no one is interested in this topic? Seriously is it a topic to discuss? Language should be that one which is spoken by majority people. And Bengali standardization was made when two Bengal was same. West Bengal is also a place of Muslims. Nadia a place of Titumir. Why we cant develop without our own language? because people were ignorant when they were imposing Urdu on Bengalis and Im sure most of of the Bengali Muslims never touched Rabindranath's book as Muslims were illiterate that time (10% maybe). So no one imposed any language on Bengal Muslims they have these many dialects for centuries. In Bengal we had very few Urdu speakers why on earth people should take that foreign language. Im talking about BD Muslims only Greater Bengal had other Hindi/Urdu dialects. And vast numbers of people converted from other religions in this area. Urdu, Arabic, Farsi was never their language. Why you want to destroy native host cultures. I know what you want. Your enmity is with Bangla. Im sure people could learn other languages when they were educated. Because of Bangla see today the literacy rate between pak and BD.

i understand you did not grew up with such information and such information challenges the notions you became comfortable with.

I want to be a human first then nationalism and religious values. All teachings cant be taken, nothing is perfect in this ever changing world and there is no hell. Peace

Edit: above dialects spoken by people. And yo ma call it artificial language. As you wish.

 

[tahsin]

you do seem happy that most Bangladeshis would be ignorant about the formal Hinduized Bengali. and they are too uneducated/gullible to understand how they are being dominated by Hindus and semi-Hindutva/Muslimphobic ideology when...

- they are told to replace their native Muslim-influenced dialects with the Hindu pandit Bengali
- they are taught that Urdu is a foreign language and discouraged from practicing it

..and this is all happening in a Muslim-majority place

this formal Bengali language was developed artificially by British and their most loyal Bengali babus in places like the Fort William College as a replacement for Farsi. Farsi was an official language and grew as a high culture language in Bengal since the very beginnings of the Muslim community in Bengal and the subcontinent.

the Muslim community never historically associated themselves with what they considered a pure Hindu language; instead they associated with Farsi and Urdu. Urdu is a prime example of a fusion between non-Sanskrit and Sanskrit. less educated Muslims also associated with other 'fused' languages like in Bengal, something between Farsi and Urdu and Sanskrit that is academically called Musalman Bengali. this somewhat exists today among Bengali Muslims between the various district/divisional dialects and the Bengali language of the ulema. this did not end up developing into a standardized formal language due to Bengali Muslims' poor socio-economic condition compared to colonial-era Hindus, and that educated Muslims of Bengal relied on Farsi and Urdu. Farsi and Urdu and their combination with yet other Sanskrit languages like Bengali are what worked as a vehicle for Islamic teachings to spread, and literature, arts and culture of different backgrounds to merge together in Bengal and elsewhere in the subcontinent. to say it was a pure Hindu-developed Sanskrit language that spread Islam in the land is absurd.

this formal Bengali (we hear in the news for example) is heavily Sanskrit, and is a drag on the potential of our people and will not take us any where.

if you claim to be a Muslim, try to be less of a self-hater. this formal Bengali language had zero Muslim input and has little to do with us Muslims. in fact it was consciously developed to get rid of as much Muslim influence as possible. this formal Bengali is a symbol of the low socio-economic position of Muslims and the oppression they had to face during colonial era. Rabrindranath Tagore was also in the same line of Hindu pandits that contributed to the development of this arguably artificial language and was seriously opposed to Muslim cultural influences. it is a disturbing reality that "Muslims" like you hold both the Hindu Bengali language and Rabindranath Tagore in such high regards, while ditching your own heritage.

This is the point I made about how the Muslims of Bengal were very badly oppressed by the British, aided by the upper caste Hindus of Bengal, principally the Brahmins. This left the Bengali MUslims in dire straits, as far as development was concerned. Remember, education=power. So when 1947 came around, Pakistanis were able to cede control from tBangladeshis. Today, the Hindu Hasina is trying to give Bangladeshi resources away to India.

 

[AbidM]

Paranoia about Religion and Language?
Religion and Language is like
Religion and Politics, and that is also like
Politics and Money.

This pairing should never be paired up, they should never influence each other, they should be left alone.

I'm sorry my Bangladeshi brother but I agree with my Bengalis from India, this is such a silly thread. (Oh no, where slowly turning into hindus through our language, everyone scream and shout. SACARSM) What's next? Hindu invaders, invading Bangladesh through our rivers? This thread is pointless.

You have to understand the the Bengali language, it was NEVER and I repeat NEVER a language of religion, it was a language of the common folk, (the common folk being the people of BANG later Bengali) -throughout history many religion influenced Bengali, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, and it was becaue Bengalis kept changing their religion and grew.

Also understand, one day many Bangladeshis will become more secular, and as matter of fact, you cannot beat that, now if you sees this being detrimental to the muslim faith, you need to start questioning yourself.

Also Bangladeshis should have alot more to care about than religion. for example how to earn money.

This is the most pointless thread ever, I hope my Bengali Brethren in Bangladesh. What is it with you jamatis.

 

[Saiful Islam]

Paranoia about Religion and Language?
Religion and Language is like
Religion and Politics, and that is also like
Politics and Money.

This pairing should never be paired up, they should never influence each other, they should be left alone.

I'm sorry my Bangladeshi brother but I agree with my Bengalis from India, this is such a silly thread. (Oh no, where slowly turning into hindus through our language, everyone scream and shout. SACARSM) What's next? Hindu invaders, invading Bangladesh through our rivers? This thread is pointless.

You have to understand the the Bengali language, it was NEVER and I repeat NEVER a language of religion, it was a language of the common folk, (the common folk being the people of BANG later Bengali) -throughout history many religion influenced Bengali, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, and it was becaue Bengalis kept changing their religion and grew.

Also understand, one day many Bangladeshis will become more secular, and as matter of fact, you cannot beat that, now if you sees this being detrimental to the muslim faith, you need to start questioning yourself.

Also Bangladeshis should have alot more to care about than religion. for example how to earn money.

This is the most pointless thread ever, I hope my Bengali Brethren in Bangladesh. What is it with you jamatis.

I liked what you said until the "Jamaati" part, now you are just another chip off the old block.

 

[khair_ctg]

This is the point I made about how the Muslims of Bengal were very badly oppressed by the British, aided by the upper caste Hindus of Bengal, principally the Brahmins. This left the Bengali MUslims in dire straits, as far as development was concerned. Remember, education=power. So when 1947 came around, Pakistanis were able to cede control from tBangladeshis. Today, the Hindu Hasina is trying to give Bangladeshi resources away to India.

Why there is a confusion I cant understand. Bangla is full of Arabic Farsi words. Just open a grammar book. Why no one is interested in this topic? Seriously is it a topic to discuss? Language should be that one which is spoken by majority people. And Bengali standardization was made when two Bengal was same. West Bengal is also a place of Muslims.

our current standard Bengali is "full of Arabic and Farsi words" after 80% of Muslim-influenced words were taken out when Hindus developed this form of Bengali for close to 200 years colonial period. the Musalman Bengali and most other Muslim-influenced languages of subcontinent are not only characterized by Arabi and Farsi vocabulary, but also by certain Rajput Hindu-origin vocabulary that Brahmin babus also cannot stand and wanted to get rid off.

you should read some of the earliest posts in this thread. it seems you are either not versed in these topics, or these facts challenge the lies you grew up with so much that you are having trouble digesting them.

West Bengal is also a place of Muslims. Nadia a place of Titumir.

what does this mean "Titu Mir"?

his actual name was Sayed Mir Nisar Ali. it was common for Brahmins in pre-1947 Bengal to distort Muslim names and assign an 'easy Hindu-friendly' name. this is according to elderly people who have memories living in pre-1947 West Bengal. something inconvenient for you.

because people were ignorant when they were imposing Urdu on Bengalis

i had the impression you were more enlightened for a BAL or a BAL-leaning person. but i see you are no different from those 'Bengali' nationalist bigots who are fine with distorting history to fit their comfort zone filled with filth and lies. you do your homework before trying to exterminate a whole language from the land of Bengal. if you have trouble accepting Urdu as a language of Bengal, consider associating yourself with somewhere else, maybe somewhere closer to Southern India.

In Bengal we had very few Urdu speakers why on earth people should take that foreign language. Im talking about BD Muslims only Greater Bengal had other Hindi/Urdu dialects. And vast numbers of people converted from other religions in this area. Urdu, Arabic, Farsi was never their language. Why you want to destroy native host cultures. I know what you want. Your enmity is with Bangla. Im sure people could learn other languages when they were educated. Because of Bangla see today the literacy rate between pak and BD.

Why you want to destroy native host cultures.

since you rejected a fact that Farsi and Urdu were local languages of Bengal, the question is for you.

those convert Muslims you are talking about, most probably opposed Brahmins (whereas you are slaving for them). those convert Muslims were part and parcel of a fusion of non-Sanskrit and Sanskrit culture. all throughout Pathan and Mughal sultanats, converts from Dharmic religions not only accepted but also took pride in the existence of non-subcontinental-origin Muslim culture that made that fusion possible. whereas you are so drunk with love for a colonial Brahmin language that you have trouble with simple facts. whatever religion you claim you are, i swear i know Hindus and other non-Muslims who show less hatred and ignorance towards Muslim culture and heritage than you do.

@Md Akmal @Al-zakir @Saiful Islam @kalu_miah
check this out- invisible shield of bongbang stopped the 'evil advances' of Arabi and Farsi (and even Urdu) to stop short of Bengal.

interesting similarity to what this thread below was addressing

No cenral asian migration to Bengal and Timur was not a mongol

 

[livingdead]

Paranoia about Religion and Language?
Religion and Language is like
Religion and Politics, and that is also like
Politics and Money.

This pairing should never be paired up, they should never influence each other, they should be left alone.

I'm sorry my Bangladeshi brother but I agree with my Bengalis from India, this is such a silly thread. (Oh no, where slowly turning into hindus through our language, everyone scream and shout. SACARSM) What's next? Hindu invaders, invading Bangladesh through our rivers? This thread is pointless.

You have to understand the the Bengali language, it was NEVER and I repeat NEVER a language of religion, it was a language of the common folk, (the common folk being the people of BANG later Bengali) -throughout history many religion influenced Bengali, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, and it was becaue Bengalis kept changing their religion and grew.

Also understand, one day many Bangladeshis will become more secular, and as matter of fact, you cannot beat that, now if you sees this being detrimental to the muslim faith, you need to start questioning yourself.

Also Bangladeshis should have alot more to care about than religion. for example how to earn money.

This is the most pointless thread ever, I hope my Bengali Brethren in Bangladesh. What is it with you jamatis.

is there any language which is a language of a specific religion? arabic? farsi? sanskrit? tamil? English?
what next: muslim river, christian elephant

 

[bongbang]

our current standard Bengali is "full of Arabic and Farsi words" after 80% of Muslim-influenced words were taken out when Hindus developed this form of Bengali for close to 200 years colonial period. the Musalman Bengali and most other Muslim-influenced languages of subcontinent are not only characterized by Arabi and Farsi vocabulary, but also by certain Rajput Hindu-origin vocabulary that Brahmin babus also cannot stand and wanted to get rid off.

you should read some of the earliest posts in this thread. it seems you are either not versed in these topics, or these facts challenge the lies you grew up with so much that you are having trouble digesting them.

what does this mean "Titu Mir"?

his actual name was Sayed Mir Nisar Ali. it was common for Brahmins in pre-1947 Bengal to distort Muslim names and assign an 'easy Hindu-friendly' name. this is according to elderly people who have memories living in pre-1947 West Bengal. something inconvenient for you.

i had the impression you were more enlightened for a BAL or a BAL-leaning person. but i see you are no different from those 'Bengali' nationalist bigots who are fine with distorting history to fit their comfort zone filled with filth and lies. you do your homework before trying to exterminate a whole language from the land of Bengal. if you have trouble accepting Urdu as a language of Bengal, consider associating yourself with somewhere else, maybe somewhere closer to Southern India.


since you rejected a fact that Farsi and Urdu were local languages of Bengal, the question is for you.

those convert Muslims you are talking about, most probably opposed Brahmins (whereas you are slaving for them). those convert Muslims were part and parcel of a fusion of non-Sanskrit and Sanskrit culture. all throughout Pathan and Mughal sultanats, converts from Dharmic religions not only accepted but also took pride in the existence of non-subcontinental-origin Muslim culture that made that fusion possible. whereas you are so drunk with love for a colonial Brahmin language that you have trouble with simple facts. whatever religion you claim you are, i swear i know Hindus and other non-Muslims who show less hatred and ignorance towards Muslim culture and heritage than you do.

@Md Akmal @Al-zakir @Saiful Islam @kalu_miah
check this out- invisible shield of bongbang stopped the 'evil advances' of Arabi and Farsi (and even Urdu) to stop short of Bengal.

interesting similarity to what this thread below was addressing

No cenral asian migration to Bengal and Timur was not a mongol

Taking your load is too much
I understand your sector. And you will keep on circling in that repeatedly. Coming back after a long with long posts.
Vai Im no match for you. Find someone else

 

[khair_ctg]

Paranoia about Religion and Language?
Religion and Language is like
Religion and Politics, and that is also like
Politics and Money.

This pairing should never be paired up, they should never influence each other, they should be left alone.

I'm sorry my Bangladeshi brother but I agree with my Bengalis from India, this is such a silly thread. (Oh no, where slowly turning into hindus through our language, everyone scream and shout. SACARSM) What's next? Hindu invaders, invading Bangladesh through our rivers? This thread is pointless.

You have to understand the the Bengali language, it was NEVER and I repeat NEVER a language of religion, it was a language of the common folk, (the common folk being the people of BANG later Bengali) -throughout history many religion influenced Bengali, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, and it was becaue Bengalis kept changing their religion and grew.

Also understand, one day many Bangladeshis will become more secular, and as matter of fact, you cannot beat that, now if you sees this being detrimental to the muslim faith, you need to start questioning yourself.

Also Bangladeshis should have alot more to care about than religion. for example how to earn money.

This is the most pointless thread ever, I hope my Bengali Brethren in Bangladesh. What is it with you jamatis.

this form of Bengali was a product of Hindu mahajan and bhadralok class. this is form of Bengali does not represent Muslims of area at all, yet you are supporting its imposition on Muslims. why not just support its application among those Hindu classes? this formal Bengali has never been a common man's language as it's obvious how and where and by whom it was standardized. the 'common' educated folk also used to learn and practice Farsi and Urdu. and today it is normal for people like bongbang to say Farsi and Urdu and Arabi are all alien languages

Taking your load is too much
I understand your sector. And you will keep on circling in that repeatedly. Coming back after a long with long posts.
Vai Im no match for you. Find someone else

you provavly misinterpreted. you don't need to take anyone's load. just do your homework on the land and people that your flag is supposed to represent before writing nihilist statements like "because people were ignorant when they were imposing Urdu on Bengalis"

And if you are too eager on Musalmani Bangla then go to the slum dwellers who's forefathers never touched any books other than the green one. Im sure you will get a feel

very interesting

 

[bongbang]

you provavly misinterpreted. you don't need to take anyone's load. just do your homework on the land and people that your flag is supposed to represent before writing nihilist statements like "because people were ignorant when they were imposing Urdu on Bengalis"

Ok, we shouldnt have immense love on any language. As you said Farsi, Urdu and Arabic should be our language.
People shouldnt have problems with that. But there we need someone who may take interest in those languages. Madrassas today giving education on Arabic and Farsi. But again where is their implementation? Preaching in Masques and talking to international Tabligue people. We want business money wealth to improve ourselves then we can do much more BS.
See Quran today. Modern Arabic is diiferent from that. Its the nature of language.

Not only these languages, we are learning Japanese, Chinese, French, German, Spanish and obviously English. These all are because of needed basis. In BD these unemployed Arabic learners will soon get jobs in Arab based call centers. BD people now learned Hindi as well which are very similar to Urdu. Thanks to satellite channels.

And Bangla Academy works to accommodate new words in Bangla and reform. 200 years ago we used to talk in Farsi.
Which was the International language of this region. But people grew local dialects as well, with the mixture of different languages. Our Bangla, something which started by the Buddhists, then Muslims, then Hindus. Now came to Bangladeshis. We are now modifying this and Bangla will be different day by day. In this discussion I grew much more love for Bengali then before. And a conscious that if we take pride in Bangla language only we will deny the existence of our Greater Bangla. Which is not language but geography. A famous Bengali poet.
Alaol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But as British arrived Farsi wasnt much necessary to learn anymore. But Muslims initially denied to learn English and to cooperate with the British. So Muslims became poor and couldnt much develop the literature of Bangla anymore. And Hindus learned English also improved Bangla. Later Muslims also started to learn English and Bangla improved by Hindus which were very close to their dialect. This way Muslims somehow came to the forefront of development.
This is the story of our region.

But there were some handful of Urdu speakers in Bangla in 1947. Who migrated from other parts of India and Pakistan.
Now general people had very less sense in Urdu. Can we start again by which we gone through this far in British era.
If we had taken Urdu our fate would be the same as the start of British period. We could learn Urdu later as we know Hindi now by mingling more. I was watching some pak time Urdu songs. Many of them were sung by Bengalis. They were very nice.