dabloo
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Dear friend,
I also know the defination of "ESTABLISHMENT", but kargil war had changed this defination for Pakistan.
Hope you understand.
Regards
Dabloo
Mumbai Attacks
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Dear friend,
I also know the defination of "ESTABLISHMENT", but kargil war had changed this defination for Pakistan.
Hope you understand.
Regards
Dabloo
linkinpark
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Where did the attack came from?. Who wants to stop this peace process?. Even same thing happened with Kargil.
IceCold
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Ohh please, post something related to the topic and something that you can back up rather then derailing the thread by bringing kargil in.
I have already given you the answer in my previous post that British FS used the term establishment which includes every part of it, he did not specify. If we go by the Indian version, as per your PM, the Pakistani establishment was also involved, he clearly mentioned GOP, now how do you back that up and specially in the light of this new statement by Britain and at a time when Indian FM was sitting next to him and as usual whining.
Jihad
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Come on now, stop it with the fingerpointing.
Learn to accept your own governments mistakes + handling and learn from them, Pakistan acknowledges her own mistakes, hell, our people acknowledge our leaders mistakes in the past and present.
Why is it so hard for you people to co-operate instead of putting all the blame on Pakistan.
AgNoStiC MuSliM
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Along with what Icecold said, India's own evidence dossier stated that they found no evidence of Pakistani institutions being involved.
Sorry, but your PM and FM are going nuts and making statements contradicting their own evidence dossier.
Flintlock
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^India has said that elements in the Pakistani establishment were involved. Obviously, there is a difference between official involvement and some individuals working in the establishment who help the terrorists.
Britain is denying the former, while India is alleging the the latter. Two different things.
In any case, the involvement of certain "rogue" elements of the ISI or some other body indicates an ambivalent attitude towards the issue at the official level, at the least. Also called "turning a blind eye".
Britain is denying the former, while India is alleging the the latter. Two different things.
In any case, the involvement of certain "rogue" elements of the ISI or some other body indicates an ambivalent attitude towards the issue at the official level, at the least. Also called "turning a blind eye".
IceCold
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Whatever, doesn't really matter what India says or believes or wants its distracted nation filled with anti Pakistan hatred to believe.The truth of the matter is that World has not only started to see clearly Pakistan's point of view but also accepted that we too are a victim of terrorism and we are all sincere to deal with the menace and no part of Pakistani establishment in involved in Mumbai blasts. Things that were fabricated and facts distorted to suit the Indian agenda i.e to isolate Pakistan in the international community and declared a terrorist state did not happened. So better luck next time.
orion
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Mumbai terror attacks prime witness missing, police clueless
Tue, Jan 13 09:33 PM
Mumbai, Jan 13 (IANS) The sudden and mysterious disappearance of a prime witness in the Mumbai terror attacks has caused a major embarrassment to police and intelligence agencies.
A high-ranking police source said that a major effort is on to track down Anita Rajendra Uddaiya (47), who had seen the group of 10 terrorists landing at the Badhwar Park bay in Colaba Nov 26.
Uddaiya has been reported 'missing' since Sunday and her family members have lodged a complaint with the Cuffe Parade police station.
Deputy Commissioner of Police (Zone I) Vishwas Nangre-Patil Tuesday evening confirmed that a missing person complaint has been received by the police. He, however, declined to elaborate on the matter.
Uddaiya was the first to see the terrorists landing from a motorized rubber dinghy and she even had a verbal exchange with them.
She was taken to the government-run Sir JJ Hospital to identify the bodies of the nine terrorists who were killed during the 60-hour long operation by security forces.
The Mumbai terror attacks at 13 locations left over 170 people dead, including police and security personnel, and 300 others injured.
Of the 10 terrorists who carried out the attacks, only one - Mohammed Ajmal Amir, alias Kasab - was nabbed by the police and is now in detention.
Mumbai terror attacks prime witness missing, police clueless - Yahoo! India News
Tue, Jan 13 09:33 PM
Mumbai, Jan 13 (IANS) The sudden and mysterious disappearance of a prime witness in the Mumbai terror attacks has caused a major embarrassment to police and intelligence agencies.
A high-ranking police source said that a major effort is on to track down Anita Rajendra Uddaiya (47), who had seen the group of 10 terrorists landing at the Badhwar Park bay in Colaba Nov 26.
Uddaiya has been reported 'missing' since Sunday and her family members have lodged a complaint with the Cuffe Parade police station.
Deputy Commissioner of Police (Zone I) Vishwas Nangre-Patil Tuesday evening confirmed that a missing person complaint has been received by the police. He, however, declined to elaborate on the matter.
Uddaiya was the first to see the terrorists landing from a motorized rubber dinghy and she even had a verbal exchange with them.
She was taken to the government-run Sir JJ Hospital to identify the bodies of the nine terrorists who were killed during the 60-hour long operation by security forces.
The Mumbai terror attacks at 13 locations left over 170 people dead, including police and security personnel, and 300 others injured.
Of the 10 terrorists who carried out the attacks, only one - Mohammed Ajmal Amir, alias Kasab - was nabbed by the police and is now in detention.
Mumbai terror attacks prime witness missing, police clueless - Yahoo! India News
koolio
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ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani on Tuesday said that India has not given Islamabad any evidence on Mumbai terroist attacks but just information.
"All that has been received from India is some information. I say information because these are not evidence," Gilani said while giving a policy statement in the National Assembly.
He said the information received on January 5 needs to be carefully examined which has been sent to the Ministry of Interior for necessary inquiry in accordance with the law.
The results of the inquiry, the Prime Minister added, will be shared with the government of India in due course of time.
"We are prepared to cooperate with India to uncover full facts and hence offered to India for joint inquiry."
India has, however, not responded to Pakistan's proposals and hoped they will see merit in it and accept joint inquiry, he added.
"Serious sustained and pragmatic cooperation is the way forward."
The Prime Minister reiterated that the country condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and said Pakistan was among the first to condemn Mumbai terror attacks.
Source ARY Oneworld
"All that has been received from India is some information. I say information because these are not evidence," Gilani said while giving a policy statement in the National Assembly.
He said the information received on January 5 needs to be carefully examined which has been sent to the Ministry of Interior for necessary inquiry in accordance with the law.
The results of the inquiry, the Prime Minister added, will be shared with the government of India in due course of time.
"We are prepared to cooperate with India to uncover full facts and hence offered to India for joint inquiry."
India has, however, not responded to Pakistan's proposals and hoped they will see merit in it and accept joint inquiry, he added.
"Serious sustained and pragmatic cooperation is the way forward."
The Prime Minister reiterated that the country condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations and said Pakistan was among the first to condemn Mumbai terror attacks.
Source ARY Oneworld
AK-47
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NY TIMES
Dossier Gives Details of Mumbai Attacks
NEW DELHI — The exchanges are chilling
Document: Copy of the Dossier (External link)“The hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire,” a supervisor instructed gunmen by phone during the Mumbai attacks in November. He added: “If you are still threatened, then don’t saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.”
A gunman replied, “Yes, we shall do accordingly, God willing.”
These are some of the grim details of the Mumbai attacks compiled by the Indian authorities and officially shared with the Pakistani government on Monday.
The compilation seems intended to achieve at least two objectives for India: demonstrate that the attackers were sent from Pakistan, and rally international support for India’s efforts to press Pakistan on its handling of terrorism suspects.
To that end, the dossier, a copy of which was shown to The New York Times, includes previously undisclosed transcripts of telephone conversations, intercepted by Indian authorities, that the 10 gunmen had during their killing spree. They left 163 dead, all the while receiving instructions and pep talks from their handlers across the border.
The dossier also includes photographs of materials found on the fishing trawler the gunmen took to Mumbai: a bottle of Mountain Dew soda packaged in Karachi, pistols bearing the markings of a gun manufacturer in Peshawar, Pakistani-made items like a matchbox, detergent powder and shaving cream.
Beyond that, the dossier chronicles India’s efforts in recent years to persuade Pakistan to investigate suspects involved in terrorist attacks in India and to close terrorist training camps inside Pakistani territory. In the final pages, India demands that Pakistan hand over “conspirators” to face trial in India and comply with its promise to stop terrorist groups from functioning inside its territory.
The dossier was shown this week to diplomats from friendly nations; one described it as “comprehensive,” another as “convincing.”
Although the dossier takes pains not to blame current or former officials in Pakistan’s army or spy agency, Indian officials have consistently hinted at their complicity, at least in training the commando-style fighters who carried out the attack.
On Tuesday, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, upped the ante, but stopped short of naming any specific entities or individuals. “There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack, it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan,” he said.
Pakistan on Tuesday rejected the Indian allegation. “Scoring points like this will only move us further away from focusing on the very real and present danger of regional and global terrorism,” Sherry Rehman, Pakistan’s information minister, said in a statement, according to Reuters. “It is our firm resolve to ensure that nonstate actors do not use Pakistani soil to launch terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.”
Pakistan has said it is examining the information sent by India.
The dossier narrates a journey of zeal, foibles and careful planning, one whose blow-by-blow news coverage was followed by handlers, believed to be in Pakistan, and used to caution the gunmen about the movement of Indian security forces and to motivate them to keep fighting.
“Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Don’t be taken alive,” a caller said to a gunman in the Oberoi Hotel in the early hours of the three-day rampage.
“Throw one or two grenades at the Navy and police teams, which are outside,” came one instruction to the gunmen inside the Taj Mahal hotel.
“Keep two magazines and three grenades aside and expend the rest of your ammunition,” went another set of instructions to the attackers inside Nariman House, which housed an Orthodox Jewish center.
At the Taj Mahal, the attackers were asked by their counselors whether they had set the hotel on fire; one attacker said he was preparing a mattress for that purpose. At the Oberoi, an attacker asked whether to spare women (“Kill them,” came the terse reply) and Muslims (he was told to release them and kill the rest). At Nariman House, they were told that India’s standing with a major ally, Israel, might be damaged.
“If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel,” one handler said.
According to the investigation into the attack, the 10 gunmen boarded a small boat in Karachi at 8 a.m. on Nov. 22, sailed a short distance before boarding a bigger carrier believed to be owned by an important operative of a banned Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The next day, the 10 men took over an Indian fishing trawler, killed four crew members, and sailed 550 nautical miles along the Arabian Sea.
Each man carried a weapons pack: a Kalashnikov, a 9-millimeter pistol, ammunition, hand grenades and a bomb containing a military-grade explosive, steel ball bearings and a timer with instructions inscribed in Urdu.
By 4 p.m. on Nov. 26, the trawler approached the shores of Mumbai. The leader of the crew, identified by Indian investigators as Ismail Khan, 25, from a Pakistani town in the Northwest-Frontier Province, contacted his handlers. When darkness set in, the men killed the trawler’s captain and boarded a dinghy, with an engine that investigators said bore marks from a Lahore-based importing company.
They reached Mumbai about 8:30 p.m., and in five teams of two, set upon their targets: Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, known as Victoria Terminus, the city’s busiest railway station; a tourist haunt called the Leopold Cafe; the Jewish center in Nariman House; and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.
They made one mistake, investigators said. They left behind Mr. Khan’s satellite phone; it was recovered by Indian investigators and its photograph was included in the dossier. A GPS device was also recovered from the trawler.
The last telephone transcript in the dossier was at 10:26 p.m. on Nov. 27, between a gunman inside Nariman House and his interlocutor. “Brother you have to fight,” the caller said. “This is a matter of the prestige of Islam.”
By the morning of Nov. 29, Indian forces had killed nine of the fighters.
The sole survivor, Muhammad Ajmal Kasab, is in the custody of the Mumbai police. His interrogation turned up one of the most frightening details: he was part of a cadre of 32 would-be suicide bombers, later joined by three more men. Ten went to Mumbai. Six went to Indian-administered Kashmir, Mr. Kasab told his interrogators.
The dossier says nothing about what happened to the remaining trainees.
Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan
Dossier Gives Details of Mumbai Attacks
NEW DELHI — The exchanges are chilling
Document: Copy of the Dossier (External link)“The hostages are of use only as long as you do not come under fire,” a supervisor instructed gunmen by phone during the Mumbai attacks in November. He added: “If you are still threatened, then don’t saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them.”
A gunman replied, “Yes, we shall do accordingly, God willing.”
These are some of the grim details of the Mumbai attacks compiled by the Indian authorities and officially shared with the Pakistani government on Monday.
The compilation seems intended to achieve at least two objectives for India: demonstrate that the attackers were sent from Pakistan, and rally international support for India’s efforts to press Pakistan on its handling of terrorism suspects.
To that end, the dossier, a copy of which was shown to The New York Times, includes previously undisclosed transcripts of telephone conversations, intercepted by Indian authorities, that the 10 gunmen had during their killing spree. They left 163 dead, all the while receiving instructions and pep talks from their handlers across the border.
The dossier also includes photographs of materials found on the fishing trawler the gunmen took to Mumbai: a bottle of Mountain Dew soda packaged in Karachi, pistols bearing the markings of a gun manufacturer in Peshawar, Pakistani-made items like a matchbox, detergent powder and shaving cream.
Beyond that, the dossier chronicles India’s efforts in recent years to persuade Pakistan to investigate suspects involved in terrorist attacks in India and to close terrorist training camps inside Pakistani territory. In the final pages, India demands that Pakistan hand over “conspirators” to face trial in India and comply with its promise to stop terrorist groups from functioning inside its territory.
The dossier was shown this week to diplomats from friendly nations; one described it as “comprehensive,” another as “convincing.”
Although the dossier takes pains not to blame current or former officials in Pakistan’s army or spy agency, Indian officials have consistently hinted at their complicity, at least in training the commando-style fighters who carried out the attack.
On Tuesday, the Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh, upped the ante, but stopped short of naming any specific entities or individuals. “There is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack, it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan,” he said.
Pakistan on Tuesday rejected the Indian allegation. “Scoring points like this will only move us further away from focusing on the very real and present danger of regional and global terrorism,” Sherry Rehman, Pakistan’s information minister, said in a statement, according to Reuters. “It is our firm resolve to ensure that nonstate actors do not use Pakistani soil to launch terrorist attacks anywhere in the world.”
Pakistan has said it is examining the information sent by India.
The dossier narrates a journey of zeal, foibles and careful planning, one whose blow-by-blow news coverage was followed by handlers, believed to be in Pakistan, and used to caution the gunmen about the movement of Indian security forces and to motivate them to keep fighting.
“Everything is being recorded by the media. Inflict the maximum damage. Keep fighting. Don’t be taken alive,” a caller said to a gunman in the Oberoi Hotel in the early hours of the three-day rampage.
“Throw one or two grenades at the Navy and police teams, which are outside,” came one instruction to the gunmen inside the Taj Mahal hotel.
“Keep two magazines and three grenades aside and expend the rest of your ammunition,” went another set of instructions to the attackers inside Nariman House, which housed an Orthodox Jewish center.
At the Taj Mahal, the attackers were asked by their counselors whether they had set the hotel on fire; one attacker said he was preparing a mattress for that purpose. At the Oberoi, an attacker asked whether to spare women (“Kill them,” came the terse reply) and Muslims (he was told to release them and kill the rest). At Nariman House, they were told that India’s standing with a major ally, Israel, might be damaged.
“If the hostages are killed, it will spoil relations between India and Israel,” one handler said.
According to the investigation into the attack, the 10 gunmen boarded a small boat in Karachi at 8 a.m. on Nov. 22, sailed a short distance before boarding a bigger carrier believed to be owned by an important operative of a banned Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. The next day, the 10 men took over an Indian fishing trawler, killed four crew members, and sailed 550 nautical miles along the Arabian Sea.
Each man carried a weapons pack: a Kalashnikov, a 9-millimeter pistol, ammunition, hand grenades and a bomb containing a military-grade explosive, steel ball bearings and a timer with instructions inscribed in Urdu.
By 4 p.m. on Nov. 26, the trawler approached the shores of Mumbai. The leader of the crew, identified by Indian investigators as Ismail Khan, 25, from a Pakistani town in the Northwest-Frontier Province, contacted his handlers. When darkness set in, the men killed the trawler’s captain and boarded a dinghy, with an engine that investigators said bore marks from a Lahore-based importing company.
They reached Mumbai about 8:30 p.m., and in five teams of two, set upon their targets: Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, known as Victoria Terminus, the city’s busiest railway station; a tourist haunt called the Leopold Cafe; the Jewish center in Nariman House; and the Taj Mahal and Oberoi hotels.
They made one mistake, investigators said. They left behind Mr. Khan’s satellite phone; it was recovered by Indian investigators and its photograph was included in the dossier. A GPS device was also recovered from the trawler.
The last telephone transcript in the dossier was at 10:26 p.m. on Nov. 27, between a gunman inside Nariman House and his interlocutor. “Brother you have to fight,” the caller said. “This is a matter of the prestige of Islam.”
By the morning of Nov. 29, Indian forces had killed nine of the fighters.
The sole survivor, Muhammad Ajmal Kasab, is in the custody of the Mumbai police. His interrogation turned up one of the most frightening details: he was part of a cadre of 32 would-be suicide bombers, later joined by three more men. Ten went to Mumbai. Six went to Indian-administered Kashmir, Mr. Kasab told his interrogators.
The dossier says nothing about what happened to the remaining trainees.
Richard A. Oppel Jr. contributed reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan
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Don't lecture us and please call Mr. David Miliband if you don't agree with his statement.
I'm sure the definition of "establishment" is not changed in UK.
Yea...he's good at it!Indian FM whining again.
If only Oscars were given to politicians...we would have a winner here!
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