MRCA ::: India May Cancel Fighter Competition

[Hello_10]

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this was for a gentleman from US who posted a very aggressive message to say something like Im in hate of US, but later that message was deleted by the administrator, (as I cant see that message here), until I could think an answer to him and back to the Forum and reply with the message as below:-

Sir, please don’t try to justify ‘fake’ of West which states, "either you are with us or against us. Either you would follow us or you want to fight with us. Blb bla” I used to talk to a high ranked IAS officer in early 90s, when I was very young, who used to say that it is always very easy for the Indian diplomats to understand foreign policies of US because they believe that they can do whatever they want so they generally follow their straight three simple steps, as anyhow they can do whatever they want so how it matters what they do? three simple steps of US's foreign policy are/ were, “Either buy a country or, make it corrupt, or, attack on that country by financial/ political means with keeping military options also at the end………..”

I just said that dual engine Mig35/ Mig29VOT is the most advanced version of Mig29s with AESA radar and even IAF was very impressed with the performance of Mig29K, with its much improved A2G capabilities, and ordered 29 more recently in 2010. Production line of Mig35/ 29VOT will give full indigenous capability of not only the additional 200 Mig35 but also of all the 68Mig29SMT and 45 Mig29K. as it’s a logic that if you want full infrastructure of MRCA then buy at least 200, why only 126? and Indian pilots don’t need training on these Mig29VOTs as they are already flyingMig29s for last 30 years while for any new aircraft like EFT/ Rafale, Pilots will have to waste over 3 to 4 years to master new aircrafts. Indian pilots may straight take Mig29VOT/ Mig35 to border areas within 6 months of its delivery, which is expected from mid to late 2013 onwards. And these Mig35s will form a back boon of Indian frontline defense along with SU30MKI till 2024/25, until PAK FA/ FGFA will take charge.

And if you will order 200 MRCA for around $25bn, then Mig35 may be bought for only around $15bn with fully loaded with missiles for hardly $65 to $70mil each, well within $15bn limit including infrastruture cost, (its a dual engine/ with a very powerful AESA than that of Rafale, the most advanced version of Migs). (while if we will need any very specialized A2G/ multi role operations within India then why IAF is thinking for $3.9bn package to upgrade Mirage2000H to 2000-5mk2 standard?, while we will have a large number of LCA, 200+, by 2020 for Multi Role requisites within Indian territory??????) and I always proposed that saving of this $10bn (around 52,000 crore rupees) would be used for any new credible infrastructure like polution free Wind Power on the coast of Maharastra/ Gujrat and boast power supply to these industrialized states and give around $3bn out of this saving to General Electric for Wind Turbines, I have full support for it. Its just nothing like anti US concept of Western diplomats that “you are either with us or against us?” we have a fair discussions on the table and Im here to answer why I support Mig35, its just nothing like anti US thing…………………

 

[sraja]

I would be most happy if the deal is cancelled. The deal is very expensive. If India infuses 1/10th of the money in local jet making effort, it will bring much more benefits in long run than buying 126 from abroad. Unless India learns to make its own fighter jet in hard-way, we will still remain as beggers for high tech weapons even in 2050. Not to forget injustice we cause to millions of poor with this expensive deal. Hope good sense prevail over anthony.

 

[itaskol]

I would be most happy if the deal is cancelled. The deal is very expensive. If India infuses 1/10th of the money in local jet making effort, it will bring much more benefits in long run than buying 126 from abroad. Unless India learns to make its own fighter jet in hard-way, we will still remain as beggers for high tech weapons even in 2050. Not to forget injustice we cause to millions of poor with this expensive deal. Hope good sense prevail over anthony.

that is true.
but the mrca deal will not be canceled.
even the face and reputation of india is more than 20 billion.

 

[tony singh]

We should have bought the Gripen which is cheaper and has good life cycle costs and put the rest of the money into SU35's but that's just my view.

 

[itaskol]

We should have bought the Gripen which is cheaper and has good life cycle costs and put the rest of the money into SU35's but that's just my view.

even spend more money on LCA make more sense. use this moeny to buy or get technologie and build more production line .Reduce the LCA product cost and sell LCA. sell is always better than buy.

 

[tony singh]

even spend more money on LCA make more sense. use this moeny to buy or get technologie and build more production line .Reduce the LCA product cost and sell LCA. sell is always better than buy.

We could have used the technology from Saab/Gripen to make LCA mk 2 a excellent fighter. Saab were keen to partner India in future 5th gen fighter too.


Gripen was also Vishnu's fave fighter from NDTV he flew the MRCA fighters.

 

[sathya]

can someone make a poll , to see how many of us wants to reject MMRCA tender..

 

[Mike2011]

Good move, we should cancel this deal.

Divert couple of billions towards pakistan and keep it busy for 10 yrs. Rest money for local productions.
We all know chinese crap can't cross Himalaya, no worries.

 

[itaskol]

can someone make a poll , to see how many of us wants to reject MMRCA tender..

at least your pilot dont want reject it. they want new fighter
and some of your corrupt goverment officer also not, because the buying commision is gone!

 

[rohailmalhi]

Good move, we should cancel this deal.

Divert couple of billions towards pakistan and keep it busy for 10 yrs. Rest money for local productions.
We all know chinese crap can't cross Himalaya, no worries.

haha.............. Really . and they say we are obsessed with India and India dont even care about Pakistan coz it is now a super power at a level of China ...........

Yara get a life .Trust me u really need that.

 

[tvsram1992]

Its the correct time for wild card entry .

 

[untitled]

Its the correct time for wild card entry .

You mean an American entry

 

[Aryavart]

ACCORDING TO MY GUPT SUTRA THE DEAL SUPPOSED TO BE ANNOUNCED TODAY, BUT POLITICAL TURMOIL IM INDIA DIVERTS ALL ATTENTION OF MMS AND COMP. TOWARDS LOKPAL & RETAIL FDI....

I M GUESSING THE REACTION OF MMMS WHEN HE IS TALKING TO ANTONY:

ANTONY: YUMMA MANMOHAN JEE MRCA WINNER FINALISED, SHALL I CALL PRESSURE CONF.
MMS: TERI PEN DI, TENNU MRCA DI PADI, AITHE ANNA CHARO OR CHOKANNA HO GYA HAI

 

[untainted]

surely they should do so, but i doubt that india will be cancelling this upgrade and they are also on their way to develop a fifth generation multi role stealth fighter with russia (PAK-FA)

 

[sancho]

I just said that dual engine Mig35/ Mig29VOT is the most advanced version of Mig29s with AESA radar and even IAF was very impressed with the performance of Mig29K, with its much improved A2G capabilities, and ordered 29 more recently in 2010. Production line of Mig35/ 29VOT will give full indigenous capability of not only the additional 200 Mig35 but also of all the 68Mig29SMT and 45 Mig29K. as it’s a logic that if you want full infrastructure of MRCA then buy at least 200, why only 126? and Indian pilots don’t need training on these Mig29VOTs as they are already flyingMig29s for last 30 years while for any new aircraft like EFT/ Rafale, Pilots will have to waste over 3 to 4 years to master new aircrafts. Indian pilots may straight take Mig29VOT/ Mig35 to border areas within 6 months of its delivery, which is expected from mid to late 2013 onwards. And these Mig35s will form a back boon of Indian frontline defense along with SU30MKI till 2024/25, until PAK FA/ FGFA will take charge.

Hi, you obviously support the Mig 35 from a Russian point of view, but you have to look at it from an Indian point of view to see if it's useful for Indian forces or not.
IN (not IAF) wasn't that impressed by the Mig 29K, they simply had no other option than buying it, because the Gorshkov deal was a combined deal with 16 fighters. For IAC1 they could have gone for another fighter, but that would had increased logistics and maintenance, since they already planned with N-LCA and Mig 29k for the first 2 carriers. That's why the additional order of 29 Migs was a logical step, while the chances are high that the Mig will be rejected by IN for IAC 2, in favour for western fighters.
For IAF the Mig 35 was a no go from the start, the bad experience with Mig fighter quality and after sale support, the overdependence on Russian arms in general, which made Indian forces vulnerable for constant cost increasings, the lack of capability compared to the other contenders or even the fact that not even Russian air force wanted to buy (just like no export customer has interest) it for a long time, made the Mig a bad choice for India.
Not to forget that the fighter is still in prototype stage only, all "Mig 35s" we saw so far, are just older airframes (Mig 29M2, Mig 29K/KUB) with some new techs integrated, so basically demonstrators. The final Mig 35 version with bigger wings for more fuel and weaponstations does not exist yet. Just like the radar is not ready and availabe in time, there are still weight issues with the Zhuk AE and 2013 was stated a while back, since then nothing new was reported and without credible funding Phazotron will have difficulties anyway.
The list of disadvantages for India by choosing the Mig is very long and that's why it wasn't surprising that it was rejected. The unit cost might be cheap and the pilot training is easy, but then we have higher maintenance costs, less capable engines (reportedly a point where IAF had issues) avionics and weapons compared to what the western vendors had on offer. And if all this would not be enough, Russian industry can't offer us more on the industrial side either. We already have the best techs and weapons from your country (which is a good thing), but we were searching for other alternatives, better ToT and more industrial benefits. Here again the western (Europeans) countries offered the clearly more interesting things for India.

If we wanted the cheapest fighter (overall costs) we would have selected the Gripen.
If we wanted the best political advantages we would have selected the F18SH.
If we wanted the best industrial package we might select the EF.
If we wanted the best fighter (for our forces) we might select the Rafale.