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MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

loool - i was kidding guys - it was all in good humor.
thanx bro arsalanaslam123- you said it all. what i had to say .

i will sign underneath, lol :cheers:
 
bud,i do know french .. 've stayed in montreal for sumtime .am an american of indian descent ... was banned in this forum 'coz i displayed amrican flags and i gues the ip address was indian..i have been stayin in india for sumtime now as am here for work.. neways , duhastmish i have gone through some of your posts earlier so i was taken aback when i saw that kinda reaction ..neways any MRCA acquisition would be a threat , i guess .... that was my summarisation of the entire thread.. having said that i am sure there wuld be effective countermeasures from pakistani side .
 
bud,i do know french .. 've stayed in montreal for sumtime .am an american of indian descent ... was banned in this forum 'coz i displayed amrican flags and i gues the ip address was indian..i have been stayin in india for sumtime now as am here for work.. neways , duhastmish i have gone through some of your posts earlier so i was taken aback when i saw that kinda reaction ..neways any MRCA acquisition would be a threat , i guess .... that was my summarisation of the entire thread.. having said that i am sure there wuld be effective countermeasures from pakistani side .

yes there will be counter measures taken by PAF as it is always the case. it is a real problem with our region that we do have to spend large amounts of money to keep a minimum deterance.

regards!
 
yes there will be counter measures taken by PAF as it is always the case. it is a real problem with our region that we do have to spend large amounts of money to keep a minimum deterance.

regards!

Obliviously PAF and GoP will take counter measures and the induction of J-11 and future induction of FC-20 are such step. Now which aircraft is better one will be decided in war(which I doubt would ever take place) so no need to go in that point. We should not forget that India and Pakistan are rivals. They will take every measure to neutralize the effect of others. But at the same time rich nations are making a lot of profit from both the countries and making their economy stronger and stronger and we people instead of feeding our poor people are indulge in fighting and thus hindering our own growth.:cry:

Thanks
 
Obliviously PAF and GoP will take counter measures and the induction of J-11 and future induction of FC-20 are such step. Now which aircraft is better one will be decided in war(which I doubt would ever take place) so no need to go in that point. We should not forget that India and Pakistan are rivals. They will take every measure to neutralize the effect of others. But at the same time rich nations are making a lot of profit from both the countries and making their economy stronger and stronger and we people instead of feeding our poor people are indulge in fighting and thus hindering our own growth.:cry:

Thanks

yes, very true indeed. but dont you think peace cannot prevale in the region untill and unless we resolve our major dispute over Kashmir... and sadly enough this is one think that India Gov dont even like to add in agenda of meetings,,:disagree:

regards!
 
yes, very true indeed. but dont you think peace cannot prevale in the region untill and unless we resolve our major dispute over Kashmir... and sadly enough this is one think that India Gov dont even like to add in agenda of meetings,,

regards!

peace can be there even without kashmir if pakistan wishes so. The moment Pakistan closes all its terrorist camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, there will be peace but sadly enough GoP is not even ready to add this in its agenda of meetings.........
 
Pakistan will have to dig deep and run very hard in the near future to keep pace with both SU30MKI threat and future MMRCA threat.

The indians very much larger resource defence budget now and in the next decade will really begin to show.

Theres no way in the world that a country with only a fraction of the others resources can keep pace year after year.

Soft loans from china and USA grant aid are giving PAF good options but for how long wil this continue.

Indias GDP and military budget i fear wil keep climbing in the next decade making the status quo harder to maintain for PAF.
 
peace can be there even without kashmir if pakistan wishes so. The moment Pakistan closes all its terrorist camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, there will be peace but sadly enough GoP is not even ready to add this in its agenda of meetings.........
In other words, if we abandon Kashmir and let India do an Israel there, there will be peace. You're talking about the kind of peace between Israel and Jordan/Egypt. No thanks, that's not peace, that's bullying. We're not going to be bullied.

Now let's get back to the topic under discussion.

Pakistan will have to dig deep and run very hard in the near future to keep pace with both SU30MKI threat and future MMRCA threat.

The indians very much larger resource defence budget now and in the next decade will really begin to show.

Theres no way in the world that a country with only a fraction of the others resources can keep pace year after year.

Soft loans from china and USA grant aid are giving PAF good options but for how long wil this continue.

Indias GDP and military budget i fear wil keep climbing in the next decade making the status quo harder to maintain for PAF.
India's GDP is their strength, but they can't keep ignoring the almost 50% poverty rate. Eventually, the people will speak out against 10 billion dollar deals for expensive toys. The perceived threat is being shifted from Pakistan to China, but I'd like to think the Indians won't stand for Cold War-style exaggerated threat assessments to boost military power simply for the sake of it. Hence the posturing up against China, retaliatory posturing will be presented as "proof". The Soviet Union is prime example of what happens when you divert money to the military when it ought to be spent on the people. Also, we don't need to "keep pace" with India, by matching them step for step we will be committing the same blunders as them, which is unacceptable in a country as politically volatile as Pakistan. We simply need to make sure they don't get out of hand, and that is something we know how to do. Anyway, that was just a comment on what you said. Don't buy into the whole "superior economy" "weak economy" hype, always plan for the worst, I'm sure your military does the same (lesson from 65).

On the MMRCA, competition, of course it is a threat to the PAF, the top aircraft in the world are being made available to our enemy. But, every threat can be dealt with smartly. National Defence is based on measure and countermeasure. Throwing money and resources at the problem will be pointless. We are not the US, we are not even India, and thought is free, so let's use that before we use our cash (that was for people who say buy J-11s now). "Minimum deterrence" is something we do very well.
 
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India's defense budget is 2.75% of the total budget..all the billions come out of that.As long as they keep it under 3% no one will complain.

Anyway..Pakistan does not need to match India dollar for dollar.A defensive force costs much less to develop than an offensive one.
 
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In other words, if we abandon Kashmir and let India do an Israel there, there will be peace. You're talking about the kind of peace between Israel and Jordan/Egypt. No thanks, that's not peace, that's bullying. We're not going to be bullied.

Now let's get back to the topic under discussion.


India's GDP is their strength, but they can't keep ignoring the almost 50% poverty rate. Eventually, the people will speak out against 10 billion dollar deals for expensive toys. The perceived threat is being shifted from Pakistan to China, but I'd like to think the Indians won't stand for Cold War-style exaggerated threat assessments to boost military power simply for the sake of it. Hence the posturing up against China, retaliatory posturing will be presented as "proof". The Soviet Union is prime example of what happens when you divert money to the military when it ought to be spent on the people. Also, we don't need to "keep pace" with India, by matching them step for step we will be committing the same blunders as them, which is unacceptable in a country as politically volatile as Pakistan. We simply need to make sure they don't get out of hand, and that is something we know how to do. Anyway, that was just a comment on what you said. Don't buy into the whole "superior economy" "weak economy" hype, always plan for the worst, I'm sure your military does the same (lesson from 65).

On the MMRCA, competition, of course it is a threat to the PAF, the top aircraft in the world are being made available to our enemy. But, every threat can be dealt with smartly. National Defence is based on measure and countermeasure. Throwing money and resources at the problem will be pointless. We are not the US, we are not even India, and thought is free, so let's use that before we use our cash (that was for people who say buy J-11s now). "Minimum deterrence" is something we do very well.

Sir i like when you said indian people would speak against 10 billion dollars. Right now indian people not asking why MMRCA? they asking why only 126 jet fighters when our squardn strength rapidly decreasing. When u said india following Russian path then the answer is no NOT INDIA. its china who following Russian path. China gotta learn from russian mistakes. India following AMERICA and ISRAEL path. We spending in good quality and not QUANTITY. By the way sir please dont match india with pakistan. Thats unfair for pakistan. 170 million population, GDP no where near, etc etc. Sorry to say sir but once in ur west that is afghanistan starts getting jet fighters then it would be headach for pakistan. Am very sure afghanistan will catch pakistan alot fast as afghanistan has support of america and britts. They will increase military aid including aid to afghan and ofcourse india already gives over 1 billion dollars per year to afghanistan. Pakistans focus should be afghanistan and not india's MMRCA. thank you.
 
peace can be there even without kashmir if pakistan wishes so. The moment Pakistan closes all its terrorist camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, there will be peace but sadly enough GoP is not even ready to add this in its agenda of meetings.........

Pick the harmful fruit of the tree but let the plant flourish. Even if freedom fighters are eliminated altogether (which is not a rational thinking), get ready find them grow back within 5 years time with more zeal and energy. These "time-pass" solution theory is impractical my friend. Just think about it. Since most of Indians have stopped thinking about Kashmir, let me put an analogy for an example.

There are terrorists in Baluchistan who want grater share of Natural resources, more rights and more self-governance. If we just eliminate every single person who we find standing for the cause and practically do nothing to address the reasons which made them stand, their second generation will rise not only claiming for the same but with more anger and desperation. Would you agree?

Just ask yourself how wise this thinking is.. Let freedom fighters coming from Pakistan aside, Kashmiri residents in your held and heavily militarized territory are beyond control. Would you still convince yourself that problem lies outside, with others? Eliminating Terrorists in Pakistan would bring Peace in Kashmir and India as a whole? Just ask yourself.
 
@PAFAce

When a country is not able to catch its rival country in terms of economy, it has to surrender, not if suddenly then gradually. Just recall how Pakistan responded when India violated our air space this time that our president stood up and spoke from their side. Such a shame but it happened. If being Pakistani, it hurts our patriotism, then there is no other way but to catch the economic pace of India as well as its Military Strength. National defense are not made on expectation that countrymen of the enemy nation will question their leaders for extra spending and we will have a sense of relief. Its hard but lets admit it, its time to act not expect!
 
Pakistani economy will not remain a basket case forever. There is realization amongst the masses that they have been short changed and this realization will grow. Unlike India, Pakistan's economy has always been free market oriented and even in uncertain times, the economy does ok. If there is stability on the political front, Pakistan economy and the benefit of its recovery will be felt much quicker. These are just the facts based on the past trends. The challenge for Pakistanis is to understand this and make sure that the politicians stay on point.

Also being smaller has its benefits too. If Pakistani economy recovers, in comparison to India, it would be quicker and easier for Pakistan to equip its forces with good quality gear. Secondly, Pakistan has to have enough in terms of conventional deterrence to make India consider every move twice. This can be done without trying to get into a useless arms race.

What Pakistan has to cater to is to have enough conventional capability as to take on India in short, high intensity conflicts. In this regard, Pakistan has the stamina and also the forces to give as good as they get it. India will spend more and that is a foregone conclusion but then India also has to worry about China which is already spending 3 x India's spending on defence per year.
 
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India's defense budget is 2.75% of the total budget..all the billions come out of that.As long as they keep it under 3% no one will complain.

Anyway..Pakistan does not need to match India dollar for dollar.A defensive force costs much less to develop than an offensive one.

Its the fear of counter attack that holds the other nation back.
A defensive force is not what you call a force that only defends and neutralizes any attack against it, but a defensive force is the one that does so but also has ability to repulse back to teach the lesson. Sorry, Pakistan has a defensive force but not according to your definitions.
 

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