Most Afghans want US troops

[Thomas]

yes you are right but i guess american peoples is also tired of america to be playing the role of world police man and to interfere in business of other nations. American invasion brought great stability and peace in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghan region. Thank you sir for invading directly in Afghanistan and Iraq and indirectly in Pakistan

Afghanistan had no stability or peace with the Taliban in control. Their brutality and massacres agianst the people prior to the U.S. invasion is well known.

 

[roadrunner]

Afghanistan had no stability or peace with the Taliban in control. Their brutality and massacres agianst the people prior to the U.S. invasion is well known.

the only area the taliban didnt control was the pashijr valley prior to the us invasion. panshijr valley is around 1% of afghanistan.

 

[Thomas]

the only area the taliban didnt control was the pashijr valley prior to the us invasion. panshijr valley is around 1% of afghanistan.

yes, and they brutalized the people in the areas they did control.

 

[roadrunner]

yes, and they brutalized the people in the areas they did control.

par for the course for all afghan ethnic groups.

 

[MilSpec]

Yes they did..Britian faced some resistance from some freedom fighters but mostly Raja , mahraja of differnt states were working for Mughals, for English etc. Most of them got the benefits, ranks from british government for their loyalty and services. Even they fought and oppressed their own peoples for them. Who was serving in British Indian army? local peoples. Who fought for Britain in world wars..local Hindustan janta

Afghanistan needs international peace keeping forces to keep out ISI and Taliban influence in the country. It is a preconceived that if Nato withdraws in a hurry ISI will again fill the vacuum with taliban elements and another decade of brutality will be ushered in. Doesn't matter how much people here try to defend taliban scums, no afghan would happily want them.

P.S - people talking crap about ahmed shad massoud really need to educate themselves

 

[Ahmad]

It would take far more then 3k troops to maintain security.

The Government needs more support from the people to effectivly stand agianst the Taliban. most people don't like the Taliban. But the culture of corruption that pervades the Government pushes people towards the Taliban. There have been many times that the U.S. has sponsered public works projects and aid projects through the Afghan Government. And the U.S. Army ended up having to step in and fund building projects directly. becuase of Afghan Governemnt red tape and corruption.

Deart Thomas, what makes you suggest to say the taliban were/are not corrupt?

 

[Ahmad]

I blame my leaders more than anyone else because they let others interfere in our politics and give them chance to dictate us. Pakistan is in mess because of wrong decisions of our leaders who can not think independently without protecting the interests of USA. I was against this so called war on terror which was fought for USA and brought instability and suicide bombing in Pakistan. I also oppose to dictate other nations and to interfere in their ways of life.

If we are divide among ourselves then only it give chance to outsiders to support one group against others. All these groups in Afghanistan were fighting against each others thats why different countries supported different leaders against each others. I never claimed that Raw , Mosad, or cia invaded our country and sure they might be working in Pakistan for their interests or might be supporting those peoples here who are involved in anti-Pakistan activities. But if a Pakistani working for their goal then i should blame him more than those who are helping him to achieve their goals

Perhaps it is more conineint for you to put everything on us, where did we get the weapons from? the money from? If non of those were availble, things would have been 360 degrees different. Mightly america and mighty soviets had decided to test their power, weapons against each other in Afghanistan, they had decided to beat each other in Afghanistan, they spent trillions of dolloars and the whole world was either part of west or east, Afghanistan was nothing but a chessboard, weak and small Afghansitan was never able to do a thing in front of those determined might.. we need to leave it here, as we both made our points.

 

[Ahmad]

a lot of this is ignorant stuff. afghanistan's war is an ethnic war. tajiks versus hazara versus pashtuns. but because the pashtuns are too big, the tajiks and hazara have combined and sided with any foreign force to suppress the pashtuns.

it is utterly pointless. i can only think the tajik and hazara elite are utterly stupid. they keep doing the same thing. first it was the soviets. of course we read how brave masood and dostum were in defeating the soviets with the french wanting to offer him the nobel peace prize

Dear roadrunner, i cant understand what you have got against the Tajiks and Hazaras that you wrongly bash them in every opportunity, i believe that you assume that the Pashtuns have the potential to serve the intersts of Pakistan(maybe not true anyway), but that perception shouldnt be the basis to condemn us in every opportunity, despit the fact that it has been us tajiks and mostly the Hazaras who have been badly discriminated, criminalized etc in the last 150 years by the pashtuns , but off course we dont hear all those in here. That is again wrong, if Hazaras and Tajiks had the support of iran, pashtuns were supported by pakistan. And nobody have supressed pashtuns even now.

then the truth emerges that dostum sided with the russians and masood also sided with the russians (when the price was right).

Dostum was never part of the mujahideen anway, i dont know how we even suggest that was fighting the soviets, he was only a warlord faithful to Pashtun Najibullah Ahmadzai, Masoud was fighting agaisnt the soviets and the soviets had tasted the defeat in his hand until they left the country, off course somebody claims things against him, but he himself in those days rejected these claims, his video is still available, he had a temporary cease fire and that was merely to survive the harsh winter, he simply couldnt risk the death of his people from hunger , the same people who had supported him. We shouldnt forget that his area of influence on the rangees of Hindukush was a harsh area with huge snowfall and brutal winter, on the other hand all his supply lines were crossing through the areas of his rival Hekmatyar.

a distinction probably should be made. pashtuns do not want foreign troops. tajiks do want foreign troops. that is the faultline in afghanistan. it is for afghans to sort this faultline out.

There is no any distinction, unless you make it. The leaders who were invitging the soviets or were pro soviets were mostly pashtun, Taraki, Amin, Najib, Tanai, and many others were pashtun, Karmal's ethnicity was disputed, he claimed to be pashtun but culturaly being persianized, some say he was tajik, we can see some low rank tajiks but nothing major. the hazaras and uzbkeks didnt have any high rank figures with only a few middle rank guys such as kishtmand and jalalar. The parties were also mostly weighing towards pashtuns, the Khalq party was predominatley pashtun, Parcham party was a mixture of Pashun, tajik, hazara and uzbek. The coming of amerifdans were also supported by various ethnic groups unlike your claim that the non pashtuns were the only people who supported it. Karzai, Sayaf, Haji Qadir and brotehrs, powerful Qari baba of Ghazni, Malik Zarin, etc are pashtuns, on the tajik side we have fahim, abdullah, qanoni, ismail khan etc, the hazara side we have khalili, muhaqiq, bashardost etc, the uzbek side we have dostum, and some others.

 

[Ahmad]

the only area the taliban didnt control was the pashijr valley prior to the us invasion. panshijr valley is around 1% of afghanistan.

i dont think so brotrher, masould was in control of the whole panjshir, major part of parwan, and significnat part of kapisa, control of whole of badakhshan, and takhar, resistnece in different districts of ghor, bamyan and kunar, lghaman were ongoing, we shouldnt forget the massares of civillinas by the taliban in many areas as well. so it wasnt panjshire only. secondly, the prospect of an end to ther war was Far From Over, both pakistani and afghani taliban were bearing huge losses and prisoners of war, even the gun battle and other heavy weapons could be heard from kabul city.

 

[Kaniska]

@Ahmad: It seems you are a correct person to provide more insights to different thoughts to the ground reality in AFGANISTAN.
Why dont you present some of the thoughts from a Afgan perspective. Because I hardly find any genuine voice to get the ground reality of Afganistan. We always here from US Media,Indian media or Pak Media from their own perspective...

 

[Thomas]

Deart Thomas, what makes you suggest to say the taliban were/are not corrupt?

I was refering only to the Government. It is a major problem that is systemic. and drives support away from the Government. Afghanistan is not unique to this. almost all developing countries have it to some degree. But in Afghanistans case were it drives people to support an insurgency. The problem needs to be placed on the front burner so to speak.

 

[roadrunner]

Dear roadrunner, i cant understand what you have got against the Tajiks and Hazaras that you wrongly bash them in every opportunity, i believe that you assume that the Pashtuns have the potential to serve the intersts of Pakistan(maybe not true anyway), but that perception shouldnt be the basis to condemn us in every opportunity, despit the fact that it has been us tajiks and mostly the Hazaras who have been badly discriminated, criminalized etc in the last 150 years by the pashtuns , but off course we dont hear all those in here. That is again wrong, if Hazaras and Tajiks had the support of iran, pashtuns were supported by pakistan. And nobody have supressed pashtuns even now.

The non political Tajiks are like the non political Pashtuns (nice people).

The Tajik elite have a history of causing instability in Afghanistan.

The Pashtuns have brutalized the Hazara, but have the Hazara not brutalized the Pashtuns? Why is your recollection of history so biased?

Ethnic Pashtuns in Afghanistan are being attacked in a wave of violence that could undermine the country's future, a human rights group has claimed.
BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Pashtuns 'targeted in Afghan violence'

There's many links (and also for Pashtun on Hazara violence). You suggesting one group is better is either ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation.

Dostum was never part of the mujahideen anway, i dont know how we even suggest that was fighting the soviets, he was only a warlord faithful to Pashtun Najibullah Ahmadzai, Masoud was fighting agaisnt the soviets and the soviets had tasted the defeat in his hand until they left the country, off course somebody claims things against him, but he himself in those days rejected these claims, his video is still available, he had a temporary cease fire and that was merely to survive the harsh winter, he simply couldnt risk the death of his people from hunger , the same people who had supported him. We shouldnt forget that his area of influence on the rangees of Hindukush was a harsh area with huge snowfall and brutal winter, on the other hand all his supply lines were crossing through the areas of his rival Hekmatyar.

Which of course i did not say. Dostum was not part of the mujahideen (i did not say he was). dostum was an afghan that sided with the soviet forces along with some minor warlords.

it is established that massoud was working for the soviets (or anyone that could guarantee him power in afghanistan). This was his only way to overpower the larger, stronger Pashtun warlords.

In 1981 and again in 1982, Massoud had stopped fighting, in exchange for Soviet offers of food, money and guarantees that the Red Army would leave his villages alone. This is an argument routinely enlisted by Massoud supporters to justify his war record. To carry that argument to its logical conclusion, we see that such actions prolonged the war by allowing 40th Army troops to be relieved of duty in the Panjshir and free to kill Afghans elsewhere, not to mention to facilitate the free-flow of war materiel to Soviet military units. For the entire occupational decade, Massoud remained in the service of his Russian patrons.
RAWA.ORG: The Afghan Who Wouldn't Fight (Ahmad Shah Massoud and links with Russians)

There is no any distinction, unless you make it. The leaders who were invitging the soviets or were pro soviets were mostly pashtun, Taraki, Amin, Najib, Tanai, and many others were pashtun, Karmal's ethnicity was disputed, he claimed to be pashtun but culturaly being persianized, some say he was tajik, we can see some low rank tajiks but nothing major. the hazaras and uzbkeks didnt have any high rank figures with only a few middle rank guys such as kishtmand and jalalar. The parties were also mostly weighing towards pashtuns, the Khalq party was predominatley pashtun, Parcham party was a mixture of Pashun, tajik, hazara and uzbek. The coming of amerifdans were also supported by various ethnic groups unlike your claim that the non pashtuns were the only people who supported it. Karzai, Sayaf, Haji Qadir and brotehrs, powerful Qari baba of Ghazni, Malik Zarin, etc are pashtuns, on the tajik side we have fahim, abdullah, qanoni, ismail khan etc, the hazara side we have khalili, muhaqiq, bashardost etc, the uzbek side we have dostum, and some others.

pashtun leaders that do not have support of the pashtun population are not leaders. they are puppets.

the pashtun warlords do have support from the population. that's the difference youre missing.

whilse najib was a pashtun, his support did not come from the pashtun areas of the country. his support was from the soviet union (until its collapse) and from the tajik population.

you see the difference?

 

[roadrunner]

i dont think so brotrher, masould was in control of the whole panjshir, major part of parwan, and significnat part of kapisa, control of whole of badakhshan, and takhar, resistnece in different districts of ghor, bamyan and kunar, lghaman were ongoing, we shouldnt forget the massares of civillinas by the taliban in many areas as well. so it wasnt panjshire only. secondly, the prospect of an end to ther war was Far From Over, both pakistani and afghani taliban were bearing huge losses and prisoners of war, even the gun battle and other heavy weapons could be heard from kabul city.

if you call controlling less than 5% of Afghanistan as 'on the road to victory' then i won't argue with this denial.

 

[Ahmad]

The Tajik elite have a history of causing instability in Afghanistan.

and the pashtun elite having done so? they are more responsible that us.

The Pashtuns have brutalized the Hazara, but have the Hazara not brutalized the Pashtuns? Why is your recollection of history so biased? Ethnic Pashtuns in Afghanistan are being attacked in a wave of violence that could undermine the country's future, a human rights group has claimed.
BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Pashtuns 'targeted in Afghan violence' There's many links (and also for Pashtun on Hazara violence). You suggesting one group is better is either ignorance or deliberate misrepresentation.

If you are talking about the 1990s civil war and afterwards until 2003 then i should say, we all did commit crimes against each other-non of us were innocent, we tajiks did commit crimes, pashtuns committed, hazaras, uzbkes and anybody who had gun did commit horrible crime, when i claim the injustice of pashutns agaisn us in terms of long terms history, is up until the point of soviets invasion, sadly either you dont know about it or just want to ignore these facts, even nowdays the pashuns systematically invade our villages, ivade our culutre, while we have no power to stop them. And dont forget that it is the same pashtun nationalism which HAS ALWAYS TRIED TO TAKE YOUR PART OF COUNTRY(FATA AND NWFP) FROM YOU, but sadly you have tried to put an innocent face on it if they discriminated against us and rubbish them if they wanted to break your country.

it is established that massoud was working for the soviets (or anyone that could guarantee him power in afghanistan). This was his only way to overpower the larger, stronger Pashtun warlords.

In 1981 and again in 1982, Massoud had stopped fighting, in exchange for Soviet offers of food, money and guarantees that the Red Army would leave his villages alone. This is an argument routinely enlisted by Massoud supporters to justify his war record. To carry that argument to its logical conclusion, we see that such actions prolonged the war by allowing 40th Army troops to be relieved of duty in the Panjshir and free to kill Afghans elsewhere, not to mention to facilitate the free-flow of war materiel to Soviet military units. For the entire occupational decade, Massoud remained in the service of his Russian patrons.
RAWA.ORG: The Afghan Who Wouldn't Fight (Ahmad Shah Massoud and links with Russians)

That is the argument and a valid one, he didnt sign the cease fire to gain control, he was already the only capable and powerful commondar in north, it was common occurance that hekmatyar had stopped his supply lines, he had to do something about it, and it was pefect opportuity for the soviets as well to have some space, cease fires and things like this happens in wars, and by the way, Masoud hiself categorically denied any suggestions that the soviets wanted to recognize his power in return he had kept his infulence, here is his video which is very old, it is in a local farsi accent, not sure if you understrand it, he categorically denied all these points:

pashtun leaders that do not have support of the pashtun population are not leaders. they are puppets. ,
whilse najib was a pashtun, his support did not come from the pashtun areas of the country. his support was from the soviet union (until its collapse) and from the tajik population.

so, thier leaders are not representative and ours are? Najib was not people's man, yes, but other guys such as sayaf, qadir brothers, malik zarin, qari baba and man more were local powerful tribal leaders, they represented either their villages or tribes. i cnat understand how you suggest he had support amng tajiks, while he himself upto to his end days favouring pashuns over non pashtuns, that is how dostum had enough of it and turnd his guns against him.

 

[Ahmad]

if you call controlling less than 5% of Afghanistan as 'on the road to victory' then i won't argue with this denial.

i can see the improvment from 1 to 5%, and i didnt say it victory, i said fight was far from over.