Mood of the Indian Muslims

[xeuss]

I'm noticing a common theme of defeatism where people just try to pray things away (e.g by saying that Allah will provide). Action beyond this will be required, they must be instruments for Allah's will.

These remarks were by people who are working lower income jobs, and generally struggling to make ends meet. There is an element of fatalism, but there is also that undying faith that Allah will make everything better, despite the adversity they are facing.

In separate conversations with others, that were more lengthy, the attitude to fight was more determined. But as always, everyone had a differing opinion on what to do and how to go about doing it. Then there were the usual sarkaari types, who blamed Muslims for everything.

 

[-=virus=-]

@xeuss @Baibars_1260

what exactly are you guys' worst fears ? you, xeuss, like to throw the nazi word around a lot.

are we headed for a bloody mass slaughter and good ol' fashioned genocide of the IMs in India ?

 

[Baibars_1260]

Interesting read, that, thanks.

What you say might be true but muslims becoming more hardcore and insular is a global worldwide thing, not surprised if this is happening in the US with the IMs too.

Communal riots between Hindus and Muslim expats from just India or a messy blow up between Hindus vs all manner of subcontinental muslims with the IMs breaking rank with Indians and allying with the Pakistanis ?

what fun

Yeah fun...
In fact, Indian Muslims often got into very intense political arguments at social occasions with Pakistanis ( when their Hindu ex-compatriots were not present).
The arguments were over the status of Kashmir and their own identity.

1.The IM stance had been that India's retention of Kashmir ( the portion it controls ) was essential to their own status as a minority in India because a Muslim majority state within India guaranteed a secular status of the republic.
Pakistan's efforts to wrest Kashmir away from India or to portray a people's resistance for self determination as a Islam vs Hinduism struggle deeply undermined the status of Indian Muslims. Kashmiris had no love for Indian Muslims as such and the then in force laws ( Article 370 and 35A) of Kashmir prevented Indian Muslims from settling or working in Kashmir. The territory of Kashmir was never a refuge for Indian Muslims and Pakistan designated as a Homeland was no longer a refuge either. Indian Muslims had been very hospitable to Kashmiris when they would seek accommodation for outside Kashmir and would find it only in IM ghettos or properties.

2. The new generation of IMs , young professionals had no reason to be patriotic to Pakistan, nor for that matter to be hostile to Pakistan as their interests lay in seeking equal rights in India and not being viewed as a fifth column to an enemy. Indian Muslims would proudly point to their relatives in senior positions in the armed forces, police, and judiciary as evidence that with all odds being evened they could find their place in India. They would be Indians like any other religious denomination in India, Pakistanis should view the religious identity of IMs separate from their nationality because Pakistanis do that with Bangladeshis, Indonesians,Afghans etc.


But the above situation has dramatically changed over the last 7 years
The vast majority of educated IMs are trying to get out of India and once out are staying out. They are doing everything possible to bring their close relatives over as the immigration rules of the country allow. Any country that accepts them they are going. Australia, Canada, USA, Saudi Arabia, New Zealand are prime immigration destinations . It is almost like the Jewish intelligentsia and professionals fleeing Europe in the 1930s. The presence of IMs diaspora is now visible in demonstrations in Europe and North America in front of Indian consulates against violence against their brethren in India. Because IMs speak read and write every language in India from Ao in Nagaland to Gujarati, Malayalam, Telugu etc. they keep a sharp watch on the HSS friendly sub-groups in the Hindu diaspora, reading their on-line forums and publications.
This way they can usually sense an impending pogrom back in India.
This is exactly the way Polish, French, German, Dutch speaking Jewish emigre groups watched the rise of fascism in their home countries and tried to warn those back home to take evasive action.

 

[xeuss]

@xeuss @Baibars_1260

what exactly are you guys' worst fears ? you, xeuss, like to throw the nazi word around a lot.

are we headed for a bloody mass slaughter and good ol' fashioned genocide of the IMs in India ?

Worst fears are obviously a bloody mass slaughter and genocide.

But what will most likely happen is a Rohingya like situation of the Indian Muslims, where Indian Muslims are relegated to the status of the neo-Dalits, with little upward socio-economic mobility (all done through various legal measures)

 

[-=virus=-]

Worst fears are obviously a bloody mass slaughter and genocide.

But what will most likely happen is a Rohingya like situation of the Indian Muslims, where Indian Muslims are relegated to the status of the neo-Dalits, with little upward socio-economic mobility (all done through various legal measures)

Big fan of the fear p0rn, eh ?

Chill, unfounded, both scenarios. You certainly appear to have done well enough for yourself, which is good. Don't feed the monster, your lot will be just fine.

 

[xeuss]

Big fan of the fear p0rn, eh ?

Chill, unfounded, both scenarios. You certainly appear to have done well enough for yourself, which is good. Don't feed the monster, your lot will be just fine.

We don't expect any sympathy from SanghiNazis. For them, even a genocide will be normal. After all, they have normalized hate within society that has landed us in the situation we are in.

 

[Markandeya]

The minorities in India should do what Minorities in Pakistan did. Sooner, the better.

 

[IMARV]

In separate conversations with others, that were more lengthy, the attitude to fight was more determined. But as always, everyone had a differing opinion on what to do and how to go about doing it. Then there were the usual sarkaari types, who blamed Muslims for everything.

Interestingly you didn't posted excerpts from those conversation.

 

[alphapak]

The Indian gujrati muslims that I have met in the UK are anti Pakistan, they think that
making Pakistan was a mistake. But since Modi has come in the IM have gone silent,
they don't about politics with Pakistani's anymore.

I think this is what has been fed into them by their scholars and people like Dr Zakir naik,
who by the way has fled India.

 

[Drizzt]

This will not change, until BJP is dislodged from center. The Biggest obstacle to removing BJP is Congress.

If BJP is black snake in green grass, Congress is Green snake in Green grass. Congress tries to sabotage and weaken parties which put up competition to BJP. Defeating BJP is easy, but first Congress has to die.

 

[xeuss]

Interestingly you didn't posted excerpts from those conversation.

Yes you are correct. Here are their remarks:

In the past, conversations with these sarkaari Muslims found nothing wrong in India, and even denied that Indian Muslims suffered any adversity or atrocities.

This time around, I was amazed to hear them speaking about fascism in India and how the BJP/RSS is going to send all the Muslims to detention camps and so forth. The only difference was that they still blamed Muslims for everything (from lack of education to Mullahs to Owaisi etc)

 

[-=virus=-]

Yes you are correct. Here are their remarks:

In the past, conversations with these sarkaari Muslims found nothing wrong in India, and even denied that Indian Muslims suffered any adversity or atrocities.

This time around, I was amazed to hear them speaking about fascism in India and how the BJP/RSS is going to send all the Muslims to detention camps and so forth. The only difference was that they still blamed Muslims for everything (from lack of education to Mullahs to Owaisi etc)

but lack of education, mullahs, Owaisi, producing too many kids without the resources to support them many times, instances of well educated ones joining foreign terror orgs like in the middle east.. all these do contribute to the community's problems.

 

[Hamza913]

@Avatar I agreed with far too much of what you posted so I'm going to focus on what I disagree with in this reply:

No, its simply not true. Hindus are not interested in the barbaric ways of the past.

Many are not, but there are those that are (just as there are Muslims who want to commit barbarity just for the sake of it). And that's who I was referring to.

Our religion does not teach us to propagate itself through any means and there is no spiritual reward for making anyone a Hindu.

This is something that I've always found intriguing, why wouldn't you want to spread what you believe to be true and a superior way of life?

It is just a vague philosophy centered around the law of karma with elabroate mythology of hundreds of characters and lessons to pick as per your liking.

Right, and the fact that it is so loose means that a variety of views on matters such as this can develop (and have).

Causing pain to other humans one of the worse kind of actions/karma that we can perform and whoever whether Hindu or Muslim is doing so are actually harming themselves. When the Muslims first came to the subcontinent they were treated as esteemed guests.

I don't think causing pain is universally seen as wrong in all circumstances given the existence of Kshatriyas, and I disagree with the notion that Muslims were entirely treated positively. There were cases of positive as well as negative treatment, even from the beginning (the latter of which was used to justify subsequent invasions, e.g Indian pirates kidnapping Muslim women).

The RSS goons you see destroying things are victims of poverty more than anything else. A well to do Hindu Indian or even a Muslim Indian would never engage in such uncivilized acts. If and when India develops to the present standards of China we will see a marked reduction in communal problems.

Most people who turn towards violence are victims of poverty more than almost anything else, but there are those for whom this is not the case. Take a look at, say, the communal tensions within the US that persist despite a much higher standard of living than much of the world. I don't think India becoming wealthier will fully resolve the matter.

We will not allow India to devolve any further than this.

But this is the problem, you can't control this. You're not even in India. Whilst such niceties are indeed soothing to the ear, no matter what you and I might want for each other and within our own countries, things like this just don't seem realistic. Which is perhaps the most depressing matter of all.

Absolutely agree with you. A drop can poison the well but luckily our planet is much larger than a well and I hope more and more people understand that basic humanity which is felt is more important than anything else that is only imagined. We may divide the world into a 1000 pieces and our problems would still be the same.

They can be largely mitigated in various ways, with further partitioning being (imo) one of them.

 

[hussain0216]

@xeuss @Baibars_1260

what exactly are you guys' worst fears ? you, xeuss, like to throw the nazi word around a lot.

are we headed for a bloody mass slaughter and good ol' fashioned genocide of the IMs in India ?

Riots, pogroms, civil war and the need for partition that may be bloody

 

[-=virus=-]

This is something that I've always found intriguing, why wouldn't you want to spread what you believe to be true and a superior way of life?

That would imply there is also an inferior way of life, why think like that ? Proselytization is just not a thing in our culture.

They can be largely mitigated in various ways, with further partitioning being (imo) one of them.

In this age of the nuclear weapon ?

India is a pretty strong state, it's very hard to imagine a further partition.