Money or Strategic Interests?

[wiseone2]

It is. Do your homework properly and revert back.

185 billion metric tons of coal does not exist. reserves need to be proven by scientific methods.

 

[Pakistan First]

185 billion metric tons of coal does not exist. reserves need to be proven by scientific methods.

Meray munnay, here, eat this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Coal_Mines_and_Resources

And if you wish to delve into Gold and Copper, here, have a dose of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reko_Diq_Mine

 

[PDF]

Lately, a lot of discussions about Pak-China, Pak-Russia and Pak-Turkey relationship have been derailed by Indian members of PDF, for example, in case of Pak-Russia relationship, by citing that Pakistan hasn't got the money to persuade Russia to sell it high-end military goodies like the Su-35.

I am wondering, is it money that has made Russia approach Pakistan (and Pakistan reciprocating) and offer to re-write and strengthen the relationship, OR, is it related to Russia's medium and long-terms plans in the region and beyond. If earlier, then Russia really doesn't need Pakistan at all and there was no point in Russia opening up those tightly-shut windows and doors towards Pakistan, as it did recently. If the later, then it has nothing to do with financial gains out of military sales, but has much much more to do with forming a strong group/block in the region, starting from Russia right upto Europe's entry gate, Turkey.

I am of the view that all this is a part of a much larger and grander plan and Pakistan, with it's military prowess, nuclear capability and strategic geographical location, offers to be a quintessential ally for both Russia's and China's future strategic plans in the region. Iran also is an indispensable variable in this equation and as important as Pakistan for Russia and China. Short-term monetary gains arising from military sales transactions is not the goal of either China or Russia, but forming a solid eastern block in the region which is capable of countering any US-led NATO offensive in the region, is. Once the later is achieved, the monetary gains to reap in the medium to long term will be exponentially higher than short term gains.

Both the money and Strategic interests lead Russia and Pakistan closer. With change in geo-strategic relations and interests including geopolitics, Pakistan and Russia have naturally reciprocated to the changes. Currently, Pakistan has good relations with China,USA and Russia;all major powers and important in the world. This is a positive and good development.

 

[wiseone2]

Meray munnay, here, eat this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Coal_Mines_and_Resources

And if you wish to delve into Gold and Copper, here, have a dose of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reko_Diq_Mine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Coal_Mines_and_Resources
" Pakistan is a place with many natural topographical features and Pakistan's largest coal reserves are found in Sindh with approximately 184.623 billion tonnes.[citation needed] "

that speaks for itself

 

[MastanKhan]

I think sir PAF never flaunted its fund rather on the contrary has been extra-frugal

Hi,

My comment was directed more towards pakistanis---they used to say---the whiteys will sell their mothers for money---. I have not come across a single pakistani except for me and a very few couple of others---who stated otherwise---.

The air marshall threatened the U S congress that they will go elsewhere---U S is not the only game in town anymore.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This is a very stupid question. It assumes having to choose one or another. In real life it does not work like that. Sometimes making money might end up hurting you more than the money you made. If you know xyz is planning to wipe you out and at the same time you can make money by doing business with them. Which one would you choose?

Take Israel. The Jews are entreprenuers extraordinaire. Money, money and money. They are some of the biggest capitalists in the world. Some of biggest trading concerns and banks are owned by them. Now take Iran. Probably the second largest oil rich country on earth - literally $100s billions waiting to be made out of that sanctioned off country. Iran is big sweet plum waiting for investors and exporters.

Now I ask does Israel support relaxing the sanctions regime on Iran for sake of $100s billions? You already know what the answer is. Therefore I say to those who want to seek a answer to the money/strategic interest conundrum please study Israel.

You will have your answer.

 

[Mamluk]

This is very stupid question. It assumes having to choose one or another. In real life it does not work like that.

You are contradicting yourself, no?

You said in real life you don't have to choose one over the other. But then you provide Israel's case as an example - which shows they are clearly preferring one over the other (strategic interest over money). Am I missing something?

 

[wiseone2]

This is a very stupid question. It assumes having to choose one or another. In real life it does not work like that. Sometimes making money might end up hurting you more than the money you made. If you know xyz is planning to wipe you out and at the same time you can make money by doing business with them. Which one would you choose?

Take Israel. The Jews are entreprenuers extraordinaire. Money, money and money. They are some of the biggest capitalists in the world. Some of biggest trading concerns and banks are owned by them. Now take Iran. Probably the second largest oil rich country on earth - literally $100s billions waiting to be made out of that sanctioned off country. Iran is big sweet plum waiting for investors and exporters.

Now I ask does Israel support relaxing the sanctions regime on Iran for sake of $100s billions? You already know what the answer is. Therefore I say to those who want to seek a answer to the money/strategic interest conundrum please study Israel.

You will have your answer.

Jews != Israel

News headlines aside Iran poses no direct threat to Israel

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are contradicting yourself, no?

Perhaps I did not convey properly. What I meant is often strategic interest converges with money. Meaning Israel does not trade with Iran and in fact makes sure that Iran is kept locked up. In doing so it does lose potential trade and money but in fact it is saving far more by sanctioning Iran. Any money it would make out of Iran would cost Israel more in the long terms as Iran would pose a greater threat to israel if that country was sanction free.

In short strategic interests converge with money if taken in context. Of course it is very complex formalae and every country has to decide the money/interest balance which of course is not based on empirical facts but is to large degree subjective rendering of geopolitics.

So take the case of Pakistan and allowing India transit to Afghanistan. Yes of course Pak would make money out of alllowing transit - however the gain Pak would make in this scenario would be offset by India making far greater profit then Pakistan. In other words for every 1 penny Pak would gain India would gain 100 pennies. Therefore I would be entirely againsat giving India transit rights.

Therefore one has to look at each unique case and even then it is very subjective.

News headlines aside Iran poses no direct threat to Israel

You need to tell that to PM Netanayu and Israeli Chief of Staff. Tell them they are losing $ billions in contracts by having sanctions againast Iran. Go spread love and pace between Israel/Iran.

Which planet you live on? Mention Iran to Israeli's and they go livid !

 

[Mamluk]

News headlines aside Iran poses no direct threat to Israel

That's an entirely different topic.

Please use some grey matter to get the gist of Kaptaan bhai's reasoning.

 

[wiseone2]

You need to tell that to PM Netanayu and Israeli Chief of Staff. Tell them they are losing $billions in contracts by having sanctions againast Iran. Go spread love and pace between Israel/Iran.

I do not care what Netanayu tells. Show me the threat. You are a smart guy. You know Iran's military capacity. They could not beat Saddam's army in a 8 year war. The Hezbollah and Hamas are pin pricks.

The only threat I see is indirect. Iran does something like acquire nukes. The other Arab states respond to Iran's actions in kind.

That's an entirely different topic.

Please use some grey matter to get the gist of Kaptaan bhai's reasoning.

kaaptan reasoning is countries choose strategic issues over economics. It depends.
his example was flawed.

 

[Mamluk]

kaaptan reasoning is countries choose strategic issues over economics. It depends.
his example was flawed.

Iran is a regional rival to Israel and the entire world thinks so, which is why Israel considers it the biggest threat.

Now if you want to discuss further, open a new thread titled "Does Iran pose any threat to Israel?".

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Show me the threat.

Zero

I do not care what Netanayu tells

It does matter. He is PM of Isreal. Me and you are nothing. What matters is large part of Israeli establishment regard Iran as a existential threat. Perception is reality. Nobody can tell India who it regards as threat. Ditto for other countries.

There are some countries in Europe like Poland that have 5 Muslims living there and they are gripped with fear of Islam taking them over. Absolutely paranoid. More Poles tripped whilst drunk and died then at hand of Muslims but the government of that country is legislating against Islam. Yet UK has over 3 million Muslims yet there is hardly a single law that you could say is Muslim specific.

As I said these are largely subjective conclusions.

Ps. And why not ask the Americans to go make some money in Iran?

 

[wiseone2]

Zero
It does matter. He is PM of Isreal. Me and you are nothing. What matters is large part of Israeli establishment regard Iran as a existential threat. Perception is reality. Nobody can tell India who it regards as threat. Ditto for other countries.

There are some countries in Europe like Poland that have 5 Muslims living there and they are gripped with fear of Islam taking them over. Absolutely paranoid. More Poles tripped whilst drunk and died then at hand of Muslims but the government of that country is legislating against Islam. Yet UK has over 3 million Muslims yet there is hardly a single law that you could say is Muslim specific.

As I said these are largely subjective conclusions.

Ps. And why not ask the Americans to go make some money in Iran?

If India claims Oman is an existential threat it does not become one. You have to pass the smell test.

A lot of Israelis disagree with Netanyahu assessments. Iran is no friend of Israel. It is not an existential enemy.
As I pointed out they can cause a ripple effect with Arab states arming up to fight Iran.

Americans do not need to make money in Iran. they make it all over the world.

Poland has legitimate complaint. Who wants illiterate uncultured immigrants in their society ? Before you get angry I can post misdeeds committed by Muslims immigrants in Europe.

 

[TechScribe18]

Pat

India's $2T GDP is for a population of 1.4b while Russia's $1.3T GDP is for a population of 144m. Go figure.

Patience Bro. We'll get there in 10 years or so. Poverty alleviation is not easy when you have a population of 1.25 billion.