Money or Strategic Interests?

[war&peace]

Hi,

My comment was directed more towards pakistanis---they used to say---the whiteys will sell their mothers for money---. I have not come across a single pakistani except for me and a very few couple of others---who stated otherwise---.

The air marshall threatened the U S congress that they will go elsewhere---U S is not the only game in town anymore.

This is a very stupid question. It assumes having to choose one or another. In real life it does not work like that. Sometimes making money might end up hurting you more than the money you made. If you know xyz is planning to wipe you out and at the same time you can make money by doing business with them. Which one would you choose?

Take Israel. The Jews are entreprenuers extraordinaire. Money, money and money. They are some of the biggest capitalists in the world. Some of biggest trading concerns and banks are owned by them. Now take Iran. Probably the second largest oil rich country on earth - literally $100s billions waiting to be made out of that sanctioned off country. Iran is big sweet plum waiting for investors and exporters.

Now I ask does Israel support relaxing the sanctions regime on Iran for sake of $100s billions? You already know what the answer is. Therefore I say to those who want to seek a answer to the money/strategic interest conundrum please study Israel.

You will have your answer.

Excellent points by both of you and this exactly what I have been all along to the Indian trolls that Russia is not interested in India's paltry few billion dollars if India joined Russia's sworn enemy, Russia will act in its long term strategic interests and that's where Pakistan and China come into picture and @MastanKhan if the deal between Russia and Pakistan does not go well, in any analysis, Pakistani pro-west elite will the be sole responsible partly due to their traditional anti-socialist bias and partly due to their arrogance and incompetency. This is a fast moving world and you cannot just and see and act reactively rather pre-empt the enemy and block its options otherwise the other side will check mate you...I really wish there was a true democracy in the country.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

With a few exceptions like China or Turkiye - permanent interests supersede everything else...."friends" come and go.

Saddam and DC had a lot of understandings once upon a time. Iran under the Shah was blue eyed angel of the west. Both would end up fighting, the West laughed its way to the bank. The Afghan mujahideen were the blue eyed angels of Washington DC as was Osama Bin Laden. We all know how that transpired decades later. Richard Nixon and Kissinger used to insult hindus and supported Khalistan, now the US wants to use india (for whatever that's actually worth) to spite China.

the real issue is different policy circles in developing and developed powers...you have the liberal coffee makers and the hawks on all sides

to the credit of the USA - at least their media tows the line of the government, even when they lie through their teeth. For e.g. New York Times

 

[war&peace]

With a few exceptions like China or Turkiye - permanent interests supersede everything else...."friends" come and go.

Saddam and DC had a lot of understandings once upon a time. Iran under the Shah was blue eyed angel of the west. Both would end up fighting, the West laughed its way to the bank. The Afghan mujahideen were the blue eyed angels of Washington DC as was Osama Bin Laden. We all know how that transpired decades later. Richard Nixon and Kissinger used to insult hindus and supported Khalistan, now the US wants to use india (for whatever that's actually worth) to spite China.

the real issue is different policy circles in developing and developed powers...you have the liberal coffee makers and the hawks on all sides

to the credit of the USA - at least their media tows the line of the government, even when they lie through their teeth. For e.g. New York Times

Sir, it is evident from your comment that basically is the West that has no loyalty rather it is in the habit of using nations, groups and individuals for its hideous purposes and then dispose them off in the most disgusting ways. Usama once their favourite agent, and was turned into the world's biggest criminal and a terrorist... so it is not the other nations rather the west that is like a heartless zombie.
It is the mistake of other countries that they do not have the vision to recognise their deception and end up working for them and being disposed off later. Whether it was Saddam, Shah, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, all they played into their hands and benefitted them and the reason is that they do not the vision.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Sir, it is evident from your comment that basically is the west that has no loyalty rather it is nick of using nations, groups and individuals for its hideous purposes and then dispose them off in the most disgusting ways. Usama once their favourite agent, and was turned into the world's biggest criminal and a terrorist... so it is not the other nations rather the west that is like a heartless zombie.
It is the mistake of other countries that they do not have the vision to recognise their deception and end up working for them and being disposed off later. Whether it was Saddam, Shah, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, all they played into their hands and benefitted them and the reason is that they do not the vision.

Might is right. On the broader scheme of things, morality doesnt matter except for the weak. That's why we need an aggressive foreign policy....and yet we dont even have a bloody foreign minister.

It's also a failure of much of the Muslim world - huge hearts, but too many bozos who dont read between the lines and visualize the plots until its too late. Look what they did to Gaddafi - a pan African nationalist who meant well for his people. We all know what happened to him.

 

[wiseone2]

With a few exceptions like China or Turkiye - permanent interests supersede everything else...."friends" come and go.

Saddam and DC had a lot of understandings once upon a time. Iran under the Shah was blue eyed angel of the west. Both would end up fighting, the West laughed its way to the bank. The Afghan mujahideen were the blue eyed angels of Washington DC as was Osama Bin Laden. We all know how that transpired decades later. Richard Nixon and Kissinger used to insult hindus and supported Khalistan, now the US wants to use india (for whatever that's actually worth) to spite China.

the real issue is different policy circles in developing and developed powers...you have the liberal coffee makers and the hawks on all sides

to the credit of the USA - at least their media tows the line of the government, even when they lie through their teeth. For e.g. New York Times

When was the last time your friends helped you in a famine ? Or provided earthquake or flood relief

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

When was the last time your friends helped you in a famine ? Or provided earthquake or flood relief

Turk Kizilay, the Chinese and even the Americans helped....most of the efforts were carried out in tandem between our Armed Forces, Turkish military and civilians as well as civil society and political activists (and yes that includes the JuD whom you guys love to talk about all the time)

Famine isnt really as much an issue in Pakistan as it is in india. I can confidently say that most Pakistanis do not go to sleep hungry at night.

 

[keeninterest]

Let me begin by clarifying, it has been a case of Pakistan chasing back in days when USSR was, and to present day Russia, than Russia chasing Pakistan, as posed in the opening post.


Rather than a typical cliche answer, it’s strategic interests that determine stance of a country, I think it’s pertinent to answer, how is it that Pakistan is by and large seen as having failed the test of strategic relationships internationally even though they were with sides who always won in the end, how is it that the talk of “deeper than the oceans, higher than the mountains”, is largely one sided emotive talk, how is it Pakistan clearly lacks the plot on issues of strategic importance such as Kashmir and more, how is it Pakistan has always, every given time been short sold, be it by the politicians or the military, and these are just a few of the many how is its. Point being, even if there is hope at the end of the tunnel for Pakistan in it’s relations with Russia, are there even capable people who can pull it off in the end, and if the depth is lacking then the what’s the point in even evaluating there exists an opportunity or not?


As far as answering money or strategic interests, well rather than seeing it in isolation, how about you question, is money a part of strategic interests, if yes, why and how? On the other hand how is it a country like India has been able to balance it’s relations with Russia on one end and US and its allies on the other, or for that matter your very “dear brother” KSA on one end with Iran, and then Israel on other ends. Most importantly, what is it that Pakistan brings on table, and since with the myopic view that things get visioned in Pakistan, relate that with relation to India.


Of all the lot you chaps have, the only person untested is Imran Khan, and he seems to have it in him to pull it off, at least rhetorically he makes a decent sense but that means a complete transformation of everything that Pakistan today stands for, and that is going to be very painful, and demanding, and I seriously doubt the very nature of which politics is made of, since people end up getting frustrated rater quickly and hate pains that come with such transitions, he will in the end have enough time to play it out.


Of interest will be to see the extent Pakistan short sells itself, if not anything else.

 

[wiseone2]

Turk Kizilay, the Chinese and even the Americans helped....most of the efforts were carried out in tandem between our Armed Forces, Turkish military and civilians as well as civil society and political activists (and yes that includes the JuD whom you guys love to talk about all the time)

Famine isnt really as much an issue in Pakistan as it is in india. I can confidently say that most Pakistanis do not go to sleep hungry at night.

we had famines prior to the Green Revolution

 

[Major Sam]

we had famines prior to the Green Revolution

you had it in 2013, and then recently water crisis.

 

[A_Poster]

we had famines prior to the Green Revolution

We never had a famine since independence.

you had it in 2013, and then recently water crisis.

Do you know definition of famine?

Famine isnt really as much an issue in Pakistan as it is in india. I can confidently say that most Pakistanis do not go to sleep hungry at night.

Yet pakistanis are more malnourished,hungrier, and die earlier than Indian on average!

 

[wiseone2]

We never had a famine since independence.



Do you know definition of famine?



Yet pakistanis are more malnourished and hungry and die earlier than Indian on average!

India has in 1965

India has in 1965

Or I should say a famine was averted with American food aid

 

[Major Sam]

We never had a famine since independence.



Do you know definition of famine?



Yet pakistanis are more malnourished and hungry and die earlier than Indian on average!

These are the recent droughts.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ht-in-29000-villages/articleshow/52238372.cms
https://ruralindiaonline.org/articles/drought-hits-90-lakhs-farmers-in-maharashtra/http://indianexpress.com/tag/maharashtra-drought/https://yourstory.com/2016/04/maharashtra-drought-feature/

If you need more references let me know.

 

[wiseone2]

These are the recent droughts.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ht-in-29000-villages/articleshow/52238372.cms
https://ruralindiaonline.org/articles/drought-hits-90-lakhs-farmers-in-maharashtra/http://indianexpress.com/tag/maharashtra-drought/https://yourstory.com/2016/04/maharashtra-drought-feature/

If you need more references let me know.

drought != famine in itself

widespread drought can lead to a famine

with the FOREX reserves India can import large amounts of foodgrains to avert any famine

 

[A_Poster]

These are the recent droughts.

Vocabulary 101: Drought ≠ Famine.

Even in a bad year, India produces enough to feed twice its population.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yet pakistanis are more malnourished,hungrier, and die earlier than Indian on average!

it's actually the other way around...and folks I've spoken to who have travelled to india are shocked how even in your federal capital (where there's a dengue outbreak nowdays) -- millions line the streets at night hungry. Children scour outside of restaurants trying to find leftover foods near the dumpsters.

it's hundreds of millions of your people who are malnourished not ours