Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged

[waz]

It's hard to find because there are none, No other religion runs death squads or terror groups to join up, neither does any other's talk about global takeover or wipeout of other faiths, no one else takes it seriously as do Muslims

There is hardly any intensive media reporting, debates or opinions towards the killings by Muslims of Shias, Hindu's, Christians in western or non Muslim media - forget Muslim media. There's lot's wrong with what's going on and everyone's given up - it's basically fallen on Muslims to find a solution to it and the sad thing is no Muslim country is much bothered.

Russians in Ukraine has little to do with religion, as for Syria - of course its a religious divide, there might have been a short period of secularism but then it basically is a Shia Sunni conflict.

There have been in the past, you only need to look at the war in Bosnia for that. At the moment, there isn't. But the idea of going to fight for a "cause", no matter how crude it is, isn't just the sole domain of Muslims. However, the religious angle is, I agree, at a global level for Muslims. However there are outfits that attack other faiths on a regional level e.g. BBS in Sri-Lanka.

I think you are very wrong regarding the reporting of killings by Muslims, there is plenty. As for the solution there are many people involved in the counter extremist movement, it's just us folks don't make for good headlines. Even Hilary Clinton talked about how the Sufis were abandoned and never backed.

I did say in my previous post that the Ukraine thing was political. As for the Syria thing, sorry that was political. Anyone who has been there, or has memories going back a few decades will tell you that sectarian issues were not there. If you had such issues you wouldn't had heads of the Sunni community, deeply respected Imams like Ramadan Al-Bouti, who was the state's grand mufti and who vocally spoke out against the insurgency and how outsiders were exploiting it. In the coming months the war took a religious turn, with many Jihadis from the Salafi movement coming in.

 

[illusion8]

I think you are very wrong regarding the reporting of killings by Muslims, there is plenty. As for the solution there are many people involved in the counter extremist movement, it's just us folks don't make for good headlines. Even Hilary Clinton talked about how the Sufis were abandoned and never backed.

The issue here is that there aren't any voices from among Muslims, the issue is the voices are very feeble and confused. There is an excellent source point to draw from - as mentioned in the OP - there were widespread Muslim protests in all the countries of the world, the whole internet - twitter, facebook - even PDF was bombarded with millions of posts and comments in the case of Gaza. Now compare that to the reactions on the killings that's happening in Syria, Africa, Lybia and Iraq.

 

[Dillinger]

There have been in the past, you only need to look at the war in Bosnia for that. At the moment, there isn't. But the idea of going to fight for a "cause", no matter how crude it is, isn't just the sole domain of Muslims. However, the religious angle is, I agree, at a global level for Muslims. However there are outfits that attack other faiths on a regional level e.g. BBS in Sri-Lanka.

I think you are very wrong regarding the reporting of killings by Muslims, there is plenty. As for the solution there are many people involved in the counter extremist movement, it's just us folks don't make for good headlines. Even Hilary Clinton talked about how the Sufis were abandoned and never backed.

I did say in my previous post that the Ukraine thing was political. As for the Syria thing, sorry that was political. Anyone who has been there, or has memories going back a few decades will tell you that sectarian issues were not there. If you had such issues you wouldn't had heads of the Sunni community, deeply respected Imams like Ramadan Al-Bouti, who was the state's grand mufti and who vocally spoke out against the insurgency and how outsiders were exploiting it. In the coming months the war took a religious turn, with many Jihadis from the Salafi movement coming in.

Syria was my father's favorite destination, for a man who couldn't quite fit in the Burj or Aga Khan's chateau he found real wonder in Syria's countryside, called it the real cradle of old civilization, apparently there were folks there who still even retained the Aramaic language (found an old church, as in OLD, as in it was a 2000+ years old pagan temple which had been turned into a church with a Malyali from India as the father there), had plenty of friends there too (the Syriac Christians and the various Islamic sects were living in peace just 7-8 years back with no tensions whatsoever) and now its turned into a hellhole.

 

[waz]

The issue here is that there aren't any voices from among Muslims, the issue is the voices are very feeble and confused. There is an excellent source point to draw from - as mentioned in the OP - there were widespread Muslim protests in all the countries of the world, the whole internet - twitter, facebook - even PDF was bombarded with millions of posts and comments in the case of Gaza. Now compare that to the reactions on the killings that's happening in Syria, Africa, Lybia and Iraq.

Of course there are more voices in that regard, but I have mentioned in my previous posts that this comes from the attitude that our people do no wrong. This will take time to change.

As for voices, there are voices, a great many. What has been told to us is that it's an "internal problem", or "there is more interesting stuff going on".

Syria was my father's favorite destination, for a man who couldn't quite fit in the Burj or Aga Khan's chateau he found real wonder in Syria's countryside, called it the real cradle of old civilization, apparently there were folks there who still even retained the Aramaic language (found an old church, as in OLD, as in it was a 2000+ years old pagan temple which had been turned into a church with a Malyali from India as the father there), had plenty of friends there too (the Syriac Christians and the various Islamic sects were living in peace just 7-8 years back with no tensions whatsoever) and now its turned into a hellhole.

Thanks for your personal experience my friend and your father's journey is fascinating and at the same time inspiring i.e. that one day people can live in harmony again.

 

[illusion8]

Of course there are more voices in that regard, but I have mentioned in my previous posts that this comes from the attitude that our people do no wrong. This will take time to change.

As for voices, there are voices, a great many. What has been told to us is that it's an "internal problem", or "there is more interesting stuff going on".

That's convenient. I am sure it involves a few western conspiracies as well in that interesting stuff.

 

[Dillinger]

Of course there are more voices in that regard, but I have mentioned in my previous posts that this comes from the attitude that our people do no wrong. This will take time to change.

As for voices, there are voices, a great many. What has been told to us is that it's an "internal problem", or "there is more interesting stuff going on".



Thanks for your personal experience my friend and your father's journey is fascinating and at the same time inspiring i.e. that one day people can live in harmony again.

We had family friends there, a Syriac Christian family, colleagues of my father, the last time we had contact with them was two years back in Aleppo, no word after that, although we don't think anything happened but still it was quite sad, they are originally from Shaddadeh and they made a run for it a year before the town fell or so, ergo no contact whatsoever, since last we talked they had left EVERYTHING behind in their old town except for the clothes they crammed in their suitcases.

Now Iraq is getting mauled.

I don't particularly care for the politics of the middle east and obviously have no religious or ideological inclination for or against the various groups operating there but they have ruined everything, most importantly the lives of countless of their fellow compatriots and coreligionists leave alone everyone else.

@Hyperion and your Erdogan was happily supporting Nusra and their ilk!

 

[waz]

That's convenient. I am sure it involves a few western conspiracies as well in that interesting stuff.

Illusion I'm talking about the press mate. But yes, many Muslims also love their crazy conspiracies as well.

We had family friends there, a Syriac Christian family, colleagues of my father, the last time we had contact with them was two years back in Aleppo, no word after that, although we don't think anything happened but still it was quite sad, they are originally from Shaddadeh and they made a run for it a year before the town fell or so, ergo no contact whatsoever, since last we talked they had left EVERYTHING behind in their old town except for the clothes they crammed in their suitcases.

Now Iraq is getting mauled.

I don't particularly care for the politics of the middle east and obviously have no religious or ideological inclination for or against the various groups operating there but they have ruined everything, most importantly the lives of countless of their fellow compatriots and coreligionists leave alone everyone else.

Nice post, thank you.

 

[Dillinger]

That's convenient. I am sure it involves a few western conspiracies as well in that interesting stuff.

Thing is @waz is personally involved in what you would call Moderate Muslims raising a voice, I agree that there the quantum of participation is far less than required since extremism as an ideology within the Islamic world can only be fought to a decisive end in terms of crushing said ideology by the inhabitants of the said same world. But the voice does exist.

 

[illusion8]

Thing is @waz is personally involved in what you would call Moderate Muslims raising a voice, I agree that there the quantum of participation is far less than required since extremism as an ideology within the Islamic world can only be fought to a decisive end in terms of crushing said ideology by the inhabitants of the said same world. But the voice does exist.

I am sure there are some Ineffective voices, no one's even bothered to come up with a UN resolution or a provincial task force to tackle it. Neither is there any wholesale condemnation against it. As an e.g. I would like to compare it to the hullabaloo created about Gaza to the wimper that isn't even visible when it comes to what's happening elsewhere.

 

[Dillinger]

I am sure there are some Ineffective voices, no one's even bothered to come up with a UN resolution or a provincial task force to tackle it. Neither is there any wholesale condemnation against it. As an e.g. I would like to compare it to the hullabaloo created about Gaza to the wimper that isn't even visible when it comes to what's happening elsewhere.

Ah yes, there is that.

See, any action in the UN has to be initiated at the state level (as in by the heads of state), now we all well know how that will work out and how "representative" half the leaders of the ME are.

Think about it this way, when organizations like Nusra get funding from Qatar or LeT from Pakistan, funding and logistics and even physical protection then don't you think an organisation say like FMCAT should be extended the same protections and a ":hand up" by right minded countries? If the US can arm the FSA then why not spend a few billion on promoting something akin to FMCAT.

Again, I agree with you, in relative terms the voice and the outrage against extremism within the Muslim world is minuscule, but it is there and it needs to be promoted from all corners (in fact you should watch Doval ji's lecture on this very aspect of counter-terrorism in the Indian context).

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, you changed a lot in the past few years. Kudos, I'm impressed!

Illusion I'm talking about the press mate. But yes, many Muslims also love their crazy conspiracies as well.



Nice post, thank you.

 

[Sliver]

this has got to be the best reads so far.

raises some very important questions to the far-right Islamists present in the forum who keep supporting Muslims and opposing non-muslims no matter what the issue is!
1) is a Muslim human's life more valuable than a non-Muslim?
2) Is discrimination in Muslim nations on non-muslims not equally deplorable as being done on Muslims by other nations?
3) The amount of hue and cry you raise over cartoons of the prophet or even not allowing burqa in a certain EU nation - how come you havent raised when the ISIS killed shias or the Boko Haram kidnapped school girls and "forcibly" converted them?

 

[livingdead]

The core issue remains a static document called quran. As long as that document exists, moderate muslims will find very difficult to defend themselves to the accusation that they are not true muslims.
Most muslims do not know what is in the document (they recite, but rely on others to know about dos and donts) and hence live a normal life.
Problem is, the number of people who are willing to live by the book is on the rise, and no amount of 'oh no thats not what it is meant' by moderates will convice those who actually took the pain to read it as it is.

Moderates know they are wrong and fundamentalists are right. Thankfully not all fundamentalists are extremists so its not all that bad. The root cause of extremism has high chance of being political/social than religious.

 

[Hyperion]

1. No it is not. Specially the life of a non-muslim in a muslim state by law is 'supposed' to be protected @ a higher level.
2. It is actually more deplorable.
3. Most of us are actually ashamed of ourselves.

Whatever the case, these are not the acts of Muslims. I don't have the stamina or the time to get into details at the moment.

this has got to be the best reads so far.

raises some very important questions to the far-right Islamists present in the forum who keep supporting Muslims and opposing non-muslims no matter what the issue is!
1) is a Muslim human's life more valuable than a non-Muslim?
2) Is discrimination in Muslim nations on non-muslims not equally deplorable as being done on Muslims by other nations?
3) The amount of hue and cry you raise over cartoons of the prophet or even not allowing burqa in a certain EU nation - how come you havent raised when the ISIS killed shias or the Boko Haram kidnapped school girls and "forcibly" converted them?

 

[kadamba-warrior]

this has got to be the best reads so far.

raises some very important questions to the far-right Islamists present in the forum who keep supporting Muslims and opposing non-muslims no matter what the issue is!
1) is a Muslim human's life more valuable than a non-Muslim?
2) Is discrimination in Muslim nations on non-muslims not equally deplorable as being done on Muslims by other nations?
3) The amount of hue and cry you raise over cartoons of the prophet or even not allowing burqa in a certain EU nation - how come you havent raised when the ISIS killed shias or the Boko Haram kidnapped school girls and "forcibly" converted them?

Perhaps it is due to a freakish combination of a feeling of both victim-hood and invincibility (marde-momin style), aided by perception of religious-superiority, ignorance along with a healthy dosage of intolerance and total disregard for other religions/opinions.