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Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged

@Hyperion if only we had more voices from you and more energy from the likes of you, we would never have to need people saying "islam is a religion of peace". Just for people like you, I would turn back and say "Yes I know that - and agree".

Unfortunately what we experience is that there are more agitations against banning of a burqa being more than kidnapping of school girls from the muslim people!

Most of these issues can be filtered to more "political" issues - the more "pure" form of Islam you say is yours, you get the right to kill, maim, rule the others with impunity and the "moderates" are just keeping their head down because they seem to be "equally terrified" of confronting the extremists.

We need more and more Muslims on board to fight against extremism. we need more and more muslims to support humanity right now and be vocal.
 
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Two wrongs do not make a right. There is a lot of that meant with good intentions.

This is something which needs physical working on..enough talk has been done, all angles covered by everybody. in the past.

I am glad the country in which I live, mostly has people who happen to be muslim, who are selfish no doubt, but then are very much pro active about such stuff. IM, SIMI and all that crap doesn't find takers and even those guys have to hide their identities even when staying among muslims.

This is good, this is non islamist, this is moderation by action.. Just that it is not what a very and I mean very small fraction of muslims want inside and outside India, they make the news more often though.

It has to be kept up. with force.

Forget the theological part of it, it's an endless debate, it will just move on from one topic to another. Theologically, it is at a status quo. Islam's fundamental aspects are under attack for the time being, Al Qaeda's gift to 21st humanity. Hence why such a question is arising in the very first place.
 
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Islam is more about humanity and understanding than you could ever imagine. We fight only to protect our rights, not to subjugate others. Islam you've grown-up seeing through the myopic electronic-media, unfortunately which is also the version prevalent in most Arab countries has NOTHING to do with The Quran, but a corrupted version to suit the exact needs of Kings and despots there. I could recommend some reading if you are into it.

@Hyperion if only we had more voices from you and more energy from the likes of you, we would never have to need people saying "islam is a religion of peace". Just for people like you, I would turn back and say "Yes I know that - and agree".

Unfortunately what we experience is that there are more agitations against banning of a burqa being more than kidnapping of school girls from the muslim people!

Most of these issues can be filtered to more "political" issues - the more "pure" form of Islam you say is yours, you get the right to kill, maim, rule the others with impunity and the "moderates" are just keeping their head down because they seem to be "equally terrified" of confronting the extremists.

We need more and more Muslims on board to fight against extremism. we need more and more muslims to support humanity right now and be vocal.
 
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@Hyperion if only we had more voices from you and more energy from the likes of you, we would never have to need people saying "islam is a religion of peace". Just for people like you, I would turn back and say "Yes I know that - and agree".

Unfortunately what we experience is that there are more agitations against banning of a burqa being more than kidnapping of school girls from the muslim people!

Most of these issues can be filtered to more "political" issues - the more "pure" form of Islam you say is yours, you get the right to kill, maim, rule the others with impunity and the "moderates" are just keeping their head down because they seem to be "equally terrified" of confronting the extremists.

We need more and more Muslims on board to fight against extremism. we need more and more muslims to support humanity right now and be vocal.

How do we even define "moderates"? The ones who approve the actions of the extremists -- just by their silence?

How do we know for sure that the moderators are not working their extremist cousins towards the same goal?

just like I raised earlier Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged | Page 3
 
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unless we have muslims on board opposing these hardliners, outsiders will always be labelled "enemies of islam" and the facts will be twisted to be presented to get more radicals. I propose people like @Hyperion @Dillinger @VCheng and the likes to form a lobby of sorts here make the beginning to deplore and condemn any and all acts of violence/discrimination against non-muslims IN THE SAME TONE AND TENOR as the likes of @Zarvan and @kalu_miah make in incidents of violence and discrimination against muslims.
 
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unless we have muslims on board opposing these hardliners, outsiders will always be labelled "enemies of islam" and the facts will be twisted to be presented to get more radicals. I propose people like @Hyperion @Dillinger @VCheng and the likes to form a lobby of sorts here make the beginning to deplore and condemn any and all acts of violence/discrimination against non-muslims IN THE SAME TONE AND TENOR as the likes of @Zarvan and @kalu_miah make in incidents of violence and discrimination against muslims.
I'd love to, but my voice would be the first to be discredited by the likes of Zarvi, given that I was born a Hindu and am an atheist now, I'd fit into his mold of prime wajib ul qatal stock! :p::p:

Although he's likely to avoid @Hyperion beyond anything but online debates (as in Hype debating and Zarvi going on and on like a broken tape) given that Hype is likely to shoot him (not hyperbole or an exaggeration, Hype probably will shoot him dead) if they were to meet face to face. 8-)
 
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The Book you so callously mention here, is one of the most complete, balanced and humane document that was ever revealed to us. I'm a practicing Muslim, and no, I don't need any translation of the book, I can read and interpret The Quran in it's entirety, all on my own. The thing here is to understand it contextually, not to cherry pick the verses that suit our momentary interests.

Dude, before you ever come up with such a sweeping statement. Think before what you write. Actually think ten times and don't let emotions overpower your best judgement.

The core issue remains a static document called quran. As long as that document exists, moderate muslims will find very difficult to defend themselves to the accusation that they are not true muslims.
Most muslims do not know what is in the document (they recite, but rely on others to know about dos and donts) and hence live a normal life.
Problem is, the number of people who are willing to live by the book is on the rise, and no amount of 'oh no thats not what it is meant' by moderates will convice those who actually took the pain to read it as it is.

Moderates know they are wrong and fundamentalists are right. Thankfully not all fundamentalists are extremists so its not all that bad. The root cause of extremism has high chance of being political/social than religious.
 
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Islam is more about humanity and understanding than you could ever imagine. We fight only to protect our rights, not to subjugate others. Islam you've grown-up seeing through the myopic electronic-media, unfortunately which is also the version prevalent in most Arab countries has NOTHING to do with The Quran, but a corrupted version to suit the exact needs of Kings and despots there. I could recommend some reading if you are into it.
I am a declared atheist - follow Dawkins and Hitchens . and I have some very good "moderate" friends who are muslims and I have had very good time any time I have been with them. They help in christmas decorations as much as we have fun sharing their food recipies. I do not want to sound aloof when i say that I know that islam can be peaceful. But people need to understand that Islam (and any other religion) can be convoluted/twisted to suit extremist views and the most effective way to counter that would be an opposition from within.

We need the moderate muslims to lend support and credence to all anti - extremist postings and postures people take. We are at risk of being "tainted" as islamophobed. The way you find it very unjust that you constantly have to say "Islam is a religion pf peace", I find it very difficult that I have to constantly say "I am not against Islam - but extremists of any kind"
 
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It seems, hindus people know everything about Muslims worldwide?
Moderate Muslims — it’s time to be outraged
by David Aaronovitch

Friday July 4, 2014
from The Times

Why is there no Islamic peace movement? Because followers are too caught up feeling sorry for themselves as victims

It is a hard enough thing to run away from home in Cardiff to become a warrior for the caliphate, it is quite another to do it from Melbourne. But in Australia too last week there were stories and photos of local Muslim boys who had somehow managed to travel half the circumference of the globe to take part in a conflict their surfing school-mates had probably never even heard of.

Reading about this in an Aussie paper in a coffee bar in Sydney I found myself wondering how this could have happened. Or, more precisely, why it doesn’t seem to happen for anyone who isn’t a Muslim. Coptic Christians from Ethiopia are not to be found trekking across the intervening desert to take up arms on behalf of their persecuted Egyptian brothers; 17-year-old Huddersfield Catholics and west London Greek Orthodox altarboys are not en route to Ukraine to take part in the struggle for Donetsk. If, God forbid, there were widespread violence in socialist Venezuela, I would not expect the Pilger battalion of British teen leftists to turn up, red-arm-banded, in Caracas. So why, Muslims might ask themselves, echoing Mario Balotelli, is it always us?

This is an awkward question both to pose and to answer, partly because there are so many people who are absolutely and easily convinced that they do know the reason. They assure me on Twitter most weeks that the problem is Islam as a faith. Uniquely among religions, they assert, Islam is literal not interpretative, and that means it is by nature aggressive, violent and fundamentalist.

I don’t believe this for a second. There is now and has always been dispute within Islam as to the meaning and application of texts. It is susceptible to reform and schism just as Christianity, Judaism and other religions and political credos have been. Furthermore, as a religion with 1.2 billion adherents, of whom well over 1.1 billion manage to make it through life without hefting an AK47, attending a training camp in Waziristan or watching a judicial amputation, the generalisation doesn’t tell you about how Islam is actually practised.

And yet the problem remains. In the 1950s and 1960s the insurgencies around the world were ideological or nationalistic. Whether it was by the Shining Path in Peru, the Maoists of Nepal or even the fascist bombers of Italian railway stations, people were being killed by rebels in the name of political ideas. But although killers such as Anders Breivik and Timothy McVeigh suggest the persistent potency of certain far-right ideologies, today’s victims of IEDs, car bombs and mass abductions are most likely to be killed — according to their killers — in the name of the Prophet.

There is no non-Muslim equivalent of what, until a few days ago was Isis but are now the forces of the self-appointed caliph Ibrahim. There isn’t a Christian Boko Haram. Pakistan is not convulsed by militant communists, but by its religious extremists in the local Taliban and other groups, who between them may have killed 50,000 people in the past ten years. There is no country that is not Muslim that attempts to enforce sanctions for apostasy or has the death penalty for blasphemy. Vaccinators are not being assassinated by Jews, nor voters having their fingers chopped off by Baptists.

Again, it’s obvious that most Muslims do none of these things. They want to eat good food, lead decent, peaceful lives and watch their children grow up. And, in fact, ordinary Muslims are by far the biggest casualties of the jihadis and the zealots of apostasy. Pakistani Shia are massacred by Sunni extremists; Sunni civilians are snatched by Iraqi Shia death squads; the Syrian civil war has seen as many as 170,000 deaths in three years. By contrast the past 25 years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict accounts for just under 10,000.

What is therefore doubly curious about this is the lack of a sense of Muslim outrage about what some other Muslims are doing. Who, for example, protests about the death penalty in many parts of the United States? Well, people in the United States and other western countries do. Judicial execution has been abolished in almost all formerly Christian countries despite its explicit sanction in the Bible.

Who complains about creationism being taught in schools? Among others, many Christians do. Is any campaign against Israeli actions complete without a complement of not-in-my-name Jews? Hardly, and that’s a healthy thing. By far the most effective critics of an action or a policy are those on the inside.

Yet I must have missed the sense of Muslim outrage at, for example, the Sultan of Brunei’s adoption of the most medieval form of Sharia, or at the persecution of religious (including Muslim) minorities in ostensibly Muslim countries.

It isn’t that some Muslim organisations aren’t trying. The two most recent campaigning statements of the Muslim Council of Britain concern condemnation of jihadi recruitment for Isis and female genital mutilation. They deserve credit for that.

But it is obvious that this self-policing isn’t what floats the boat of Muslims politically. There’ll be the occasional good statement, but if, say, Israel bombs Gaza, then suddenly social media will fill up with Islamic outrage, careful commentators will become passionate, marchers will hit the streets. Why is there no Muslim Peace Movement campaigning for an end to violence in Muslim countries, where the victims are Muslims and the perpetrators are Muslims? Where it might make the most difference.

A couple of weeks ago listeners heard a depressing report from Bradford. Sima Kotecha, the BBC correspondent, was interviewing young Pakistani-British boys about Iraq. Would they go and fight for Isis or other groups? “I would go. They’re brothers,” said one. “You’re going to live as a Muslim, die as a Muslim, innit?” said another.

There is at work here what can only be called a victim mentality — paradoxical given the power and size of Islam — which casts Muslims as being eternally oppressed and eternal victims.

This week the supreme leader of Iran, arguably the most powerful Muslim religious leader in the world, tweeted his “analysis of recent events in the region”. Point 1 was: “Main enemy: security and intelligence services of the West.” Point 2 was their tactics: “Sowing sectarian conflicts”, launching proxy wars and “fabricating forged alternatives of Islam”. Neither he nor any other Muslim had any real responsibility for any of it.

A fantasy of victimhood is difficult enough when it enchants just a nation. When it enthrals a world religion it is terrifying.
Social sharing | The Times

@Oscar @VCheng @waz @Irfan Baloch @Jaanbaz @Pakistani Exile @Hiptullha @Counter-Errorist @Hyperion @qamar1990 @KingMamba @Emmie @Capt.Popeye
 
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unless we have muslims on board opposing these hardliners, outsiders will always be labelled "enemies of islam" and the facts will be twisted to be presented to get more radicals. I propose people like @Hyperion @Dillinger @VCheng and the likes to form a lobby of sorts here make the beginning to deplore and condemn any and all acts of violence/discrimination against non-muslims IN THE SAME TONE AND TENOR as the likes of @Zarvan and @kalu_miah make in incidents of violence and discrimination against muslims.
Mr first Islam is Islam there is no moderate Islam and Jihad is part off Islam and you get peace by submitting to will off GOD this term off moderate Islam has fueled more anger in Muslims in Islam peace is for those who don't attack Islam or Muslims those who do we would love to.have a war I never said destroy South American countries or New Zeland or many countries in Africa because they mostly don't mess with us
 
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^^

Right!

In other words, extremism will exist as long as Islam exists -- which could be a long time!

I don't care how the "moderates" sugarcoat it and lull others into complacency, I will take the words of a guy with a gun more seriously, any day! And I have no reason to suspect an extremist when he says his version of Islam is true.
 
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unless we have muslims on board opposing these hardliners, outsiders will always be labelled "enemies of islam" and the facts will be twisted to be presented to get more radicals. I propose people like @Hyperion @Dillinger @VCheng and the likes to form a lobby of sorts here make the beginning to deplore and condemn any and all acts of violence/discrimination against non-muslims IN THE SAME TONE AND TENOR as the likes of @Zarvan and @kalu_miah make in incidents of violence and discrimination against muslims.

What gives you the impression that I don't oppose violence/discrimination against non-Muslims?

If you want to become more familiar with my worldview you should start here:
kalu_miah's new world order, a road map for the future

My ideas keep evolving with time, as I gather more data about different nations and peoples of the world. But violence/discrimination against any religious group, nation, race etc. has no place in this worldview.
 
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Many muslims do condemn extremism. At least in my local forum where i live they did. Perhaps the language barrier that make it less observable. Many muslim countries or majority countries use their local language when discussing it.

I once saw a clip of some men beheading a helpless man on the ground. They slit his throat while shouting "Allahu Akbar" repeatedly. What disgust me the most is that they let the man lay in agony, not even giving him quick death. It's torture in a very awfull way.

And the bad continue as i do 5 times a day pray. I spell the same words "Allahu Akbar" in each moves, it's disturb me, distract me of my prayer even though i know they abuse the words so cheaply while my conscience convince me there is nothing wrong with the words. it angers me.

it affected me beyond memories. and i'm sure so is my brothers and sisters.
 
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