Mig 29 bought for BAF?

[Zabaniyah]

US arms always comes with some stings attached except to her most closest allies like Israel,
UK or Japan to some extent.

That's because they are major non-NATO allies. Whereas, we aren't.

Most likely those F16 will be 2nd hand while a 4th ++ gen grippen
can will be brand new. Grippen also has some US tech but we are not an enemy of US yet so
they won't mind Sweden selling it to us. Sweden will also be more inclined to give some amount of TOT than US.

Who told you this?

Chinese avionics are quite good now and in many cases they surpass western avionics. China
has been an trusted partner of BD and a reliable supplier.

Many would disagree.

 

[alaungphaya]

BD versus Myanmar GDP

International Monetary Fund, April 2012 World Economic Outlook - Google Public Data Explorer

The gap just gets wider.

Well, I don't want to jinx it but since the reforms, I am quietly confident of a tiger boom. Even though we have a third of the population, it's a great embarrassment to be below you people in GDP. I think it will take about 10 years to rectify this shameful situation.

On a side note, a Burmese with knowledge in Economics,
that's quite a thing I must say. Myanmar is really developing .

Yeah, I keep forgetting Bangladesh is the beacon of civilisation and enlightenment in the world.

That's because they are major non-NATO allies. Whereas, we aren't.

If you want US weapons, you either have to have something they want like oil or a strategic location or you have to follow their neo-liberal ideas of free markets and representative democracy.

 

[TopCat]

Match India? You don't even have parity with us. The generals in Naypyitaw are not trying to match you, they are making sure they will always be ahead. Come on, man. If what you bought in the past few years is hawkish spending, it underlines my point that you don't have the funds or the political will to militarise yourself.

Dude, do you have any comprehension problem? I never said that BD army has an agenda of matching with India but said that they prepare themselves to face India.

Now, I don't know what your government is up to. But seems like your mighty army have a tendency of running away while facing our armed forces. Something must be terribly wrong with your arrangement.

How can you keep yourself ahead when we throw a annual budged of $25 billion dollar whereas your total annual budget is only $4 billion dollar? I don't know what $hit you are smoking.

Now lets see how you going to match up? When we asked Chinese to sell us some frigates and boats your country ran to them and asking them the same. Probably they were telling theirs master to prove their friendship. And Chinese happily complied and gave you two free ship.

Here are the two ships..

Now, as you can see, we yet to take delivery of our ships. Two new corvettes are being built in Chinese shipyard. 5 petrol ships are being build in Khulna/BD shipyard. Two frigates with helicopter already selected and we are negotiating with Chinese company to upgrades the ships with the most advanced electronic warfare system.

Look at the frigates.

Now its your judgement. Its not only navy but in every sector, your government is making hell of a mess. You cant win war with some steel and wheels but you got to out smart your enemy. I dont think you still have that capability and will.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Why are we bringing Myanmar into this?

 

[TopCat]

Why are we bringing Myanmar into this?

The burmese guy just jumped into it. He deserved a reply. My bad.

 

[alaungphaya]

Dude, do you have any comprehension problem? I never said that BD army has an agenda of matching with India but said that they prepare themselves to face India.

Now, I don't know what your government is up to. But seems like your mighty army have a tendency of running away while facing our armed forces. Something must be terribly wrong with your arrangement.

How can you keep yourself ahead when we throw a annual budged of $25 billion dollar whereas your total annual budget is only $4 billion dollar? I don't know what $hit you are smoking.

Now lets see how you going to match up? When we asked Chinese to sell us some frigates and boats your country ran to them and asking them the same. Probably they were telling theirs master to prove their friendship. And Chinese happily complied and gave you two free ship.

Here are the two ships..

Now, as you can see, we yet to take delivery of our ships. Two new corvettes are being built in Chinese shipyard. 5 petrol ships are being build in Khulna/BD shipyard. Two frigates with helicopter already selected and we are negotiating with Chinese company to upgrades the ships with the most advanced electronic warfare system.

Look at the frigates.

Now its your judgement. Its not only navy but in every sector, your government is making hell of a mess. You cant win war with some steel and wheels but you got to out smart your enemy. I dont think you still have that capability and will.

If and when you have paid for these ships and are flying your colours then I will say fair enough. All I see are a couple of pictures of the same Chinese frigate. Infact, it's pretty much the same frigate that they handed over to us. My point is that as a civilian run budget, you will never have the apetite to match a government on a war footing.

I don't know what you're talking about running away from your soldiers but that sounds like complete bullshit. Maybe you're talking about when Ne Win moved a few troops into bingala to give you a test? That was hardly running away.

I really don't understand why you, with a smaller and more underfunded armed forces buying inferior and obsolete technologies, seem to think that you somehow have military supremacy over anyone.

BTW the latest BD budget was ~$22billion and the latest Myanmar budget was ~$10billion. Now, considering you outnumber us 3:1, it's hardly something to write home about, is it? But then again, you are a Bangladeshi.

 

[alaungphaya]

Why are we bringing Myanmar into this?

It's more fun.

 

[kalu_miah]

My advice to my Bangladeshi brothers here is to buy two squadrons of either J-10s, Gripen or F-16s.

Those will do the job wonderfully well and at a low price.

Very good advice brother. F16 is a proven platform and the block 60 E/F version developed by UAE has the most advanced avionics. Gripen is a newer platform proven, more modern and lighter than f16 and definitely cheaper to operate.

So between the F16 bl60e/f and Gripen, the Gripen looks more attractive to Bangladesh, but both are subject to finicky export control of the US. Considering this export restriction, for Bangladesh, I withdraw my earlier reservations about Chinese and Russian planes, since they are willing to share more of their better technologies with countries like Bangladesh, who is neither a NATO or a non-NATO ally of the US, just a "friendly" nation with great trading relations.

J10 looks like a very nice platform, newer than both of the above, based on Israeli Lavi.

I think Pakistan is getting an export version. There is a smaller JF17, but obviously j10 is the best fighter China has made so far.

Some comparisons:

The SAAF Forum • View topic - Chengdu J-10 vs SAAB JAS-39 Gripen C/D
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/5650-f-10-critics.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...would-j-10-f-16-go-up-against-each-other.html
J-10 vs SU-30MKI
J-10 vs SU-35
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/27862-f-16-j-10-vs-su-30-mki.html
Sukhoi SU-35
SU30MKI v/s SU-35 [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Looks like su30mki is better for BVR, while the much smaller single engine j10 is more agile and is better for dog fight. But su30mki was problematic for India. So if Russia allows it, we should go for su-35 with much better russian made radar:
Irbis-E - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So my choice: j10 and su35

Question: China and Russia willing to sell us the best version of these?

May be we can get 10/12 of each?

 

[Yogi]

no doubts grippen is a wonderful plan but i think considering the budget allocated to BAF its cost n maintainance will be difficult n since BAF won't be ordering them in large no. i doubt regard to tot, if any
On the other hand mig 29 is relatively cheap n also a proven platform n russia has always been ready to provide tot to its buyers n it will also provide commonality to BD with south asia, china n many east asian countries as BD is not warmonger country n more of a peaceful nation

 

[kalu_miah]

no doubts grippen is a wonderful plan but i think considering the budget allocated to BAF its cost n maintainance will be difficult n since BAF won't be ordering them in large no. i doubt regard to tot, if any
On the other hand mig 29 is relatively cheap n also a proven platform n russia has always been ready to provide tot to its buyers n it will also provide commonality to BD with south asia, china n many east asian countries as BD is not warmonger country n more of a peaceful nation

Yes Bangladesh is not warmonger country, but we need to maintain air superiority over some smaller troublesome neighbors. We already have mig29, we are looking to make improvement. Since we are such a small buyer, I am not sure if ToT is an issue for us.

 

[Yogi]

@ kalu miah
Exactly my point if BD wants to gain air superiority it can be acheived by increasing the existing no. Of migs n upgrading them to smt standards rather then going for grippen n create logistic problems n as most of the airforce in asia do not maintain grippen it might create compatibility issues with friendly nations in future

 

[kalu_miah]

@ kalu miah
Exactly my point if BD wants to gain air superiority it can be acheived by increasing the existing no. Of migs n upgrading them to smt standards rather then going for grippen n create logistic problems n as most of the airforce in asia do not maintain grippen it might create compatibility issues with friendly nations in future

Please read my above post. Gripen has been dropped. My final selection is either j10 or su35, but I prefer su35, I think Russians are desperate to sell this to almost anyone. j10, china may not sell to us their best version, even to Pakistan they are selling an export version.

Russia may export new Su-35 fighters to India, Malaysia, Algeria | Russia | RIA Novosti
Assessing Russian Fighter Technology
Should Russia sell Su-35 to China? | Flashpoints
KNAAPO - Production - Su-35
Fighter Aicraft, Su-35

Our main concern is to get air superiority and also some deterrence, compatibility is not a huge concern for us with other nations.

 

[Yogi]

@ kalu miah
i don't think people out here do agree with u with respect to drop out of grippen as they are still comparing it with other fighters

Anyways if its a choice between j10 n su35 then i think BD should go for j10 as su35 is way lot expensive then j10 rather su35 is even more expensive then grippen so i don't think BD would be able to purchase them considering the budgetary constraints

 

[kalu_miah]

If you have not noticed we have a little mini arms race going on between a neighbor and us. So I think we need su35, at least a few. Its better to get a small number of good ones, so we have superiority. We have to see them first with powerful radar before they see us. And this su35 has a much more powerful radar than j10. j10 could be our second line of defense. I do not support buying any more mig29, may be just upgrade the existing ones.

And we can afford a few gripen or su35, it is not beyond Bangladesh budget, may be not so many. What is the use of buying a whole lot of junks, if they get blown out of the sky before they know what hit them?

Problem with gripen is the export restriction, not the price.

Lots of good pictures here, but have to use chrome translator:
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-533.html

 

[Luftwaffe]

My advice to my Bangladeshi brothers here is to buy two squadrons of either J-10s, Gripen or F-16s. Those will do the job wonderfully well and at a low price.

You Advice is very poor...F-16/Gripen are expensive, take a look at Pakistan's F-16 procurement I am referring everyone to it you too should look into it. Compare SU-35 the over all life time cost is 2X lesser.

F-16 is sanction prone, single engine Blk 40/42+ is $45M excluding over the life time costs.

Gripen C/D is $60M, single engine American engine and certain components-avionics, sanction prone, Price tag excludes over the life time costs.

J-10 is not for sale, J-10B could be for sale to other nations post 2017+, J-10A production line would close down by that time. Price tag is $40M.

SU-35 Flanker baseline Variant $45M, 4.5++ Gen out classes all F-16/Gripen-J-10, twin engine, better maintenance cost over previous Flankers. Both from the point of view of Cost Price Tag Capabilities it out performs western-Chinese counter parts. Incase of sanction on behest of hindustan by russians, SU-35 Flanker has commonality with J-11B/J-15 thus spares-equipment is the least concern.