Memoirs of a (Pakistani) Hindu girl

[SamantK]

We have seen secular states - America - the crime rate is unbelievable;

UK - rubbish verdicts are given for petty crimes and sometimes a burglar is set free and COMPENSATED because the owner of the house beat him up for breaking in and stealing IN HIS house...

Europe- Fathers are crying because their ex-wives won't let them visit their children after a divorce which the woman filed- yup daddy rights are at stake!

There are many rubbish news here in the West from SECULAR states - Nope that is not really the solution if you ask me...

A human doesn't know nor can define what is right and what is wrong - I mean seriously if a man is defending his house from a robbery - he can't even beat the robber but instead has to wait to be attacked or shot then only can he be said to have defended himself?

Women who marry rich men and divorce them after they get their wealth and ALSO take their kids?

Drug dealers can "NEGOTIATE" with the law to set them free or minimal sentence if they give names of their groups?

What sort of twisted laws are these? Isn't the law supposed to protect us?

And then don't forget racism where some people are just beaten up due the difference in the color of their skin....

GOD tells us to punish the wrong do-ers, equal rights for both parents and also no discrimination based on sex, colour, race or you shall perish (meaning you shall be severely punished and your nation- if it is a whole nation's problem will be replaced)

. Their value system is different, ours are different. Put enough power in people's hand to select a representative and you will have laws wich are acceptable to you or the community of yours.. Blaming them just because they are secular is incorrect..

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

The Islam in the state ideology was not the reason Pakistan was sliced from Paksitan, it was used as a policy to bring/bind people of different ethnic background.. That was the mistake

I think that Pakistan should have a degree of ethnic/racial nationalism combined with Islam. Ethnic nationalism is essential for pride, unity, & survival. Islamic nationalism is hardly present in the rest of the Muslim world, it's barely visible in the Arab world. Islamic nationalism should simply be mixed with racial nationalism, that would be the perfect combination. People should be proud of their race, heritage, & religion too. Pakistan should have taken pride in & celebrated the Harappan & Vedic civilizations, this does not imply that they should have neglected their Islamic heritage either.

 

[SamantK]

I was taught Islam is a way of life...Now if someone tells me this and that is in Islam but if it is not practical...I know it is either that person lied or that was ONLY for that time period and is not valid for today (we have some hadith which were valid for a certain time period or situation and are not valid after that time/ situation

Agreed.

Yes go to the learned person BUT AFTER YOUR RESEARCH...At least you will have a rough idea as to what is wrong and what is right...and will know how much a loony the guy you are asking help from is

What is right and what is wrong is all relative what we believe is right may notbe for others, that is exactly why religion should
Be an individual matter, not a state matter..

 

[Dubious]

. Their value system is different, ours are different. Put enough power in peoples hand to select a representative and you will have laws wich are acceptable to you or the community of yours.. Blaming them just because they are secular is incorrect..

So, they are correct?

The thing is I am a stronger believer of bad people should be punished? I hate injustice and I voice out as much as I can. I have family in Pakistan so I know what crap (in the name of Islam) goes on there...

I live in the Western world...I witness rubbish all the time...

Mind you, the question again arises...WHO DECIDES WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG? What should be in the law and what shouldn't? How much punishment should be given to so and so crime?

A man whose daughter has ever been raped would put capital punishment for rapers, a man whose relative has been involved in car accidents and is maimed would put some severe punishment for accidents, a man whose friend has been black mailed would put a certain type of punishment for that and so on....EVERYONE will put it in accordance to their experience...so who will check? who will balance? Humans are humans- emotional beings!

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

So, they are correct?

The thing is I am a stronger believer of bad people should be punished? I hate injustice and I voice out as much as I can. I have family in Pakistan so I know what crap (in the name of Islam) goes on there...

I live in the Western world...I witness rubbish all the time...

Mind you, the question again arises...WHO DECIDES WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG? What should be in the law and what shouldn't? How much punishment should be given to so and so crime?

A man whose daughter has ever been raped would put capital punishment for rapers, a man whose relative has been involved in car accidents and is maimed would put some severe punishment for accidents, a man whose friend has been black mailed would put a certain type of punishment for that and so on....EVERYONE will put it in accordance to their experience...so who will check? who will balance? Humans are humans- emotional beings!

I provided you with links to some of my posts on post #209 of this thread. Please check them out.

 

[Dubious]

Agreed.
What is right and what is wrong is all relative what we believe is right may notbe for others, that is exactly why religion should
Be an individual matter, not a state matter..

Sorry first you agreed with Islam = way of life than you try to tweak it by saying matter of state is separate? Matter of state is a part of my life...

I mean in an ideal situation MEN don't know what a woman goes through if she is raped...no amount of understanding can reach that level not even the understanding of another woman...

Normal human don't know what it feels to loose a child when an irresponsible driver ran over them...you have to be the parent to know the feeling

Normal people do not know what it feels to become an orphan because some lunatic killed your family. You have to be an orphan to know one...

1 man or even a group of law makers may not have been in each and every situation and may not assign proper punishments...

I provided you with links to some of my posts on post #209 of this thread. Please check them out.

Yup have them opened

Going to read through now...I feel a little guilt right now though....This thread was for that poor girl who was forcefully converted not to show someone how a secular system works and how a religious 1 is different...

Sorry people!

 

[SamantK]

I think that Pakistan should have a degree of ethnic/racial nationalism combined with Islam. Ethnic nationalism is essential for pride, unity, & survival. Islamic nationalism is hardly present in the rest of the Muslim world, it's barely visible in the Arab world. Islamic nationalism should simply be mixed with racial nationalism, that would be the perfect combination. People should be proud of their race, heritage, & religion too. Pakistan should have taken pride in & celebrated the Harappan & Vedic civilizations, this does not imply that they should have neglected their Islamic heritage either.

Actually, to claim IVC heritage and Islamic heritage is not wrong.. However these were used for national integration, please understand that Jinaah himself did not know that Pakistan would become an Independent country.. He was gunning for something else which was not accepted and hence had to go this way.. The national integration was not thought out fully and one after the other the rulers put up a ideology which was not though out fully.. Maybe you can move now but it looks like it is too late..

 

[vsdoc]

Jugaad post qabool karo

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Yup have them opened

Going to read through now...I feel a little guilt right now though....This thread was for that poor girl who was forcefully converted not to show someone how a secular system works and how a religious 1 is different...

Sorry people!

Haha, that's fine. I haven't come across any thread so far that didn't end up turning in to a discussion for a variety of different yet related subjects. It's simply the evolution of the thread's subject, discussing the difference between a secular & Islamic state is kind off important I guess. It will help us better understand which form of governance is better at protecting minority rights. Idealistically, the Islamic state should be perfect at guarding minority rights, but we are all aware that some Islamic states these days happen to be worthless when it comes to protecting human rights. Secular states like Turkey are doing considerably better these days.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Fifty years ago an American author asked why minority blacks felt alienated. He decided to do something nobody thought of before: change his identity and skin color from white to black so he could write about the change in his day-to-day experience in his book, Black Like Me.

Why not try something similar? Why not assume a new Hindu or Christian identity and tell everyone what it feels like in everyday experiences, contrasting it with what you felt as a Muslim in similar situations?

Fantastic suggestion. All Mullahs should go through this enlightening experience. To be on the receiving end of injustice and intolerance and threat of subjecation and violence for just being so slightly different from the person next to them and see how it feels to receive their jahilism.

If we think about it, even if a Muslim was to lead the perfect life of a namazi and rozagar (a pure devoutee) his lifetime of prayers and sacrifices and jihad would not even be a down payment for the miracle that is the human eye. All this is not enough for 1 eye and we have two.

Yet we have closed our eyes and embraced jahilism (ignorance). Blind faith is no faith, following any religion with your eyes closed is not faith, but just being a club member. For many the long beard is for public consumption, a club card.

Faith without doubt is like courage without fear. They both cease to exist without the latter.

So it is imperative that we imagine ourselves in the poistion of those that are vulnerable. That is the notion of fasting. Yet we fast and learn nothing, we force people to abide when we have no right to do so, we force young girls to convert when that is haram to do so. We take a young girl with Down syndrome and arrest her for carrying mere paper with prints of the word of God - prints!!!

The word of God becomes a word of our maker when it is received by the reader or the listener, it is not a word when it is just a mere print.

The value of that paper and print is not even worth 1 hair never mind an eye and never mind a whole human and a vulnerable being that has been entrusted in our care.

Where is the arrest for the blasphemy of using God to rule through fear and mob jahilism.

None!!

that is why we need to be in their shoes.

 

[Dubious]

Actually, to claim IVC heritage and Islamic heritage is not wrong.. However these were used for national integration, please understand that Jinaah himself did not know that Pakistan would become an Independent country.. He was gunning for something else which was not accepted and hence had to go this way.. The national integration was not thought out fully and one after the other the rulers put up a ideology which was not though out fully.. Maybe you can move now but it looks like it is too late..

I am not sure what Jinnah wanted, well, we all know 1 thing we fought for an ISLAMIC STATE not for a secular one...It is really disrespecting the thousands who lost their lives in the struggle!

All I am saying is religion is important...YOU don't want to follow mine, I have no problem as I had said previously

LA KUM DEENU KUM WALEE YADEEN!- From the Quran which means = To you is your religion/ ideology and to me is mine

 

[tony singh]

Dharmic people should leave this hellhole and return to India or apply for Asylum in the west otherwise they will continue to suffer from these wahabis.

 

[Dubious]

Fantastic suggestion. All Mullahs should go through this enlightening experience. To be on the receiving end of injustice and intolerance and threat of subjecation and violence for just being so slightly different from the person next to them.

Yea, I wish we could treat those mullahs like that!- Mind you not all religious leaders are bad...just those particular ones

If we think about it, even if a Muslim was to lead the perfect life of a namazi and rozagar (a pure devoutee) his lifetime of prayers and sacrifices and jihad would not even be a down payment for the miracle that is the human eye. All this is not enough for 1 eye and we have two.

The prophet said a Muslim is not a Muslim if he does not want the good he wants for himself also for others.

Yet we have closed our eyes and embraced jahilism (ignorance). Blind faith is no faith, following any religion with your eyes closed is not faith, but just a club member.

So true!

So it is imperative that we imagine ourselves in the poistion of those that are vulnerable. That is the notion of fasting. Yet we fast and learn nothing, we force people to abide when we have no right to do so, we force young girls to convert when that is haram to do so. We take a young girl down syndrome sufferer and arrest her for carrying mere paper with prints of the word of God - prints. The word is only a word when it is received by the reader or the listener, it is not a word when it is just a mere print.

We punish the less fortunate is a sin itself!

 

[vsdoc]

I like your posts liquidmetal.

Doosri baar bol raha hun. Ek thank you to bol de bhai.

 

[SamantK]

So, they are correct?

The thing is I am a stronger believer of bad people should be punished? I hate injustice and I voice out as much as I can. I have family in Pakistan so I know what crap (in the name of Islam) goes on there...

I live in the Western world...I witness rubbish all the time...

Mind you, the question again arises...WHO DECIDES WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG? What should be in the law and what shouldn't? How much punishment should be given to so and so crime?

A man whose daughter has ever been raped would put capital punishment for rapers, a man whose relative has been involved in car accidents and is maimed would put some severe punishment for accidents, a man whose friend has been black mailed would put a certain type of punishment for that and so on....EVERYONE will put it in accordance to their experience...so who will check? who will balance? Humans are humans- emotional beings!

No one is perfect and you see anomalies because they have tried very hard to be perfect, can the same be said about India and Pakistan?

India is getting better that I can say in the laws and their implementation..

Regarding the bolded part, it is the collective judgement of people in a democracy to see what is fit, after all these emotional peoples are the ones who have to make the law.

Sorry first you agreed with Islam = way of life than you try to tweak it by saying matter of state is separate? Matter of state is a part of my life...

No, I agreed with your statement of Islam as you POV. You of course can conduct your life in a manner you see fit, however that does not mean that the state should be concerned about your life only. State will legislate laws which are fair for everyone, not just you.

I mean in an ideal situation MEN don't know what a woman goes through if she is raped...no amount of understanding can reach that level not even the understanding of another woman...

So?

Normal human don't know what it feels to loose a child when an irresponsible driver ran over them...you have to be the parent to know the feeling

So?

Normal people do not know what it feels to become an orphan because some lunatic killed your family. You have to be an orphan to know one...

And so?

1 man or even a group of law makers may not have been in each and every situation and may not assign proper punishments...

What are you getting at?