Memoirs of a (Pakistani) Hindu girl

[Dubious]

BTW, The old testament and the Quran are not very different when it comes to laws...especially covering the head while praying, not eating pork, no adulteration and so on... In that sense we are already practicing being a Christian...

I am just showing that the project suggested by SOLOMON2 is already in process...question arises when will Christians start being Christians?

Leviticus 11,7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you. This command is repeated in Deuteronomy 14:7-8. Then in Isaiah 65:2-4, and 66:17, God issues a stern warning against those who eat pork.

In l CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 PAUL WROTE, "DO you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor evilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

That's true, but what I meant was that Muslims can't hide their religion right? They are forbidden from concealing their faith unless of course they were being threatened with torture or death. That is the only time they may pretend to be non-Muslims. However, they can't claim to be non-Muslims simply for an experiment.

Here is a source from Wikipedia.

Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems reliable enough, I am referring to the "Sunni Islam view" because I am a Sunni Muslim, but you may refer to other sects if required.

From my knowledge TAQIYYA is a shia concept...am not sure why Wiki put it with Sunni?!

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

From my knowledge TAQIYYA is a shia concept...am not sure why Wiki put it with Sunni?!

Yeah, I also thought that it was a Shia concept.

Our (Sunni) view is different from the Shia view though. According to the Sunni view, a person can only hide his or her faith under threat of torture & death.

 

[Dubious]

There is a consensus that whomsoever is forced into apostasy and chooses death has a greater reward than a person who takes the license [to deny one's faith under duress], but if a person is being forced to eat pork or drink wine, then they should do that [instead of choosing death].- From Wiki which did not even give me the hadith number to check up...But yes, I have read something similar...

Like I said it is allowed but death as a Muslim is best...because the Islam says do not die in any other religion except as a Muslim and as a Muslim you need to practise it ALL the time...not just in Ramadan not just in the Masjid not just when you stand up for Solat! It is a way of life...this is why we can not pretend to adapt another religion because it limits our practise as a Muslim and goes against our own religion...

I have no problem with other religions...LA KUM DEENNU KUM WALEE YADEEN- From Quran which means: To you is your religion and to me is mine....

I will not be questioned about what you practice and you will not gain from what I practice...My deeds are from my doing and yours from yours....

Hence, I do not understand this forcing of religion!

 

[vsdoc]

page badlo yaar

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Here is more proof from the Quran below stating that a person may only renounce their faith if he or she was forced to.

Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment; (Quran: Chapter 16; Verse 106)

Here is another article below regarding the permissibility of concealing faith.

Concealing One's Faith out of Fear - Muslim Belief - counsels - OnIslam.net

Here is a quote below from the article linked above.

If you really feared for your life and made the above statement under duress, then it is not counted against you in Islam. But if there was no such reason to fear, then you were indeed guilty of a serious offense. However, your intention is highly crucial in this matter. If you simply said this in order to ward off a potential but serious threat to your life, then you need not worry; otherwise, you need to repent sincerely to Allah.

Allah says in the Qur’an, (Whoever disbelieves in Allah after he has believed—excepting he who was forced, while his heart remained secure in faith—but those who open their breast to disbelief, upon them shall be anger from Allah, and there awaits them a formidable torment) (An-Nahl 16:106).

The above verse was revealed in the specific context of severe persecutions the early Muslims were subjected to at the hands of their enemies in Makkah. The case of `Ammar and his parents was one of the most obvious instances occasioning the revelation of the above verse. The persecution they suffered was so severe that both his parents, Yasir and Sumayyah, died, thus becoming the first martyrs in Islam. The life of `Ammar, however, was spared since he uttered the words of kufr (disbelief) under extreme duress. When his story was told to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) he said that `Ammar was a true believer whose faith is mixed with his flesh and blood. In other words, it is the intention that counts in such cases. Since he had no intention of renouncing his faith, his words of disbelief in no way detracted from his faith.

It's clear that under ordinary circumstances Muslims are forbidden from concealing their belief, & they are also forbidden from taking part in the religious practices of other people.

 

[Dubious]

Here is more proof from the Quran below stating that a person may only renounce their faith if he or she was forced to.

Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment; (Quran: Chapter 16; Verse 106)

Here is another article below regarding the permissibility of concealing faith.

https://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/muslim-creed/muslim-belief/170789+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=sa]Concealing One's Faith out of Fear - Muslim Belief - counsels - OnIslam.net[/url]

Here is a quote below from the article linked above.



It's clear that under ordinary circumstances Muslims are forbidden from concealing their belief, & they are also forbidden from taking part in the religious practices of other people.

I actually don't even see any reason to conceal a religion like Islam...No not that cult/ culturally practiced thing named Islam but the real Islamic faith...

Now let's get back to the poor girl for whom this thread was....Basically whoever forced her to convert forgot the 1st pillar of Islam itself...

page badlo yaar

Just out of curiosity why do you always say that? What do you mean by it?

 

[SamantK]

It's true that many Muslims do not follow every aspect of the Islamic law. Some people drink alcohol even though religion forbids it. However, none of us would dare to violate important teachings of the scripture. For example; none of us will bow to an idol, even if it's for the sake of a social experiment.

To prove my point, I found a hadith (saying of the prophet) for everyone to read below.

Im not saying that you do not follow what you believe in however to me anything written is only valid until it is humane and reasonable and thus my point of either convenience or practicality which rules the roost... not following something which is valid and practicable is not required...

 

[vsdoc]

Just out of curiosity why do you always say that? What do you mean by it?

It means for friggin sake, turn the page over man.

Just out of curiosity, why do you thank my posts when you don't get what they mean. I recall an instance in the past as well, not that I'm complaining!

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Im not saying that you do not follow what you believe in however to me anything written is only valid until it is humane and reasonable and thus my point of either convenience or practicality which rules the roost... not following something which is valid and practicable is not required...

I agree that anything that sounds illogical must be rejected. Are you referring to those people who do not practice Islam? These extremist Muslims aren't following Islam properly either, none of these incidents against religious minorities are a result of Islam. The people responsible for these actions are generally ignorant idiots. For example; I read that an 11 year old Christian girl was accused of blasphemy for apparently burning the verses of the Quran. In reality, burning the verses of the Quran isn't blasphemy at all. Burning is a legitimate technique of disposing the scripture, provided that the burnt pages become illegible & are completely destroyed.

This r

What does that mean?

 

[Dubious]

It means for friggin sake, turn the page over man.

Just out of curiosity, why do you thank my posts when you don't get what they mean. I recall an instance in the past as well, not that I'm complaining!

Ummm..to me it means I have read it and maybe to get the other person's attention. I don't get notifications for a new posts in a thread I have written but I get notifications for thanks

That is how I know I gotta read this thread or that 1...I just taught people do the same, no?

For example; I read that an 11 year old Christian girl was accused of blasphemy for apparently burning the verses of the Quran. In reality, burning the verses of the Quran isn't blasphemy at all. Burning is a legitimate technique of disposing the scripture, provided that the burnt pages become illegible & are completely destroyed.

Yup that is how people destroy verses which get accumulated in the house....That is why I did not answer to those posts...Didn't actually understand why the poor girl was accused of blasphemy ....

It means for friggin sake, turn the page over man.

Errrr....can you forcefully turn a page? I thought the page turns when there are sufficient (not sure how many) posts on it...

 

[SamantK]

I agree that anything that sounds illogical must be rejected. Are you referring to those people who do not practice Islam? These extremist Muslims aren't following Islam properly either, none of these incidents against religious minorities are a result of Islam. The people responsible for these actions are generally ignorant idiots. For example; I read that an 11 year old Christian girl was accused of blasphemy for apparently burning the verses of the Quran. In reality, burning the verses of the Quran isn't blasphemy at all. Burning is a legitimate technique of disposing the scripture, provided that the burnt pages become illegible & are completely destroyed.

No, I was referring to everyone, I think to be more tolerant we have to judge our faith too. It might sound blasphemous to you but to me it sounds perfectly reasonable and that is something I believe Hindu faith has no qualms about..

Also, like any other religion, people who are learnt ( in religious matters) have quite different interpretation of what something means. That is why I rather not want any religion to be part of a state's ideology...

What does that mean?

Freakin mobile devices...

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Freakin mobile devices...

So that was a typo at the end of your last post? It's cool, forget about it.

 

[Dubious]

No, I was referring to everyone, I think to be more tolerant we have to judge our faith too. It might sound blasphemous to you but to me it sounds perfectly reasonable and that is something I believe Hindu faith has no qualms about..



What does that mean?

Welll...if people are not being real Muslims what makes you think they will be real Hindus or real Christians?

 

[vsdoc]

Ummm..to me it means I have read it and maybe to get the other person's attention. I don't get notifications for a new posts in a thread I have written but I get notifications for thanks

That is how I know I gotta read this thread or that 1...I just taught people do the same, no?

That's why they say you cannot beat us desi's in out of the box thinking and street jugaad.

P.S. Tell me if you do not understand what jugaad means.

 

[SamantK]

Welll...if people are not being real Muslims what makes you think they will be real Hindus or real Christians?

I have updated my post, My point is who will define a real Muslim or real Hindu?

So that was a typo at the end of your last post? It's cool, forget about it.

Yup, I did not review my post was in a hurry..