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Memoirs of a (Pakistani) Hindu girl

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Show me if there is any study or research suggesting that Chief Justice's should be appointed in accordance to their religious demographic proportion of the whole population. :rofl:

Its common sense.... If 75% of your jellybeans are red in a bag, when you put your hand in the bag, theres more of a chance you would pick a red one
 
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Sad story, I feel sorry for this woman. The question is; why do the religious minorities feel alienated?
Fifty years ago an American author asked why minority blacks felt alienated. He decided to do something nobody thought of before: change his identity and skin color from white to black so he could write about the change in his day-to-day experience in his book, Black Like Me.

Why not try something similar? Why not assume a new Hindu or Christian identity and tell everyone what it feels like in everyday experiences, contrasting it with what you felt as a Muslim in similar situations?
 
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It's like saying it doesn't matter what the medical books say, lets just chop off 1 of his/ her limb! Obviously a doctor reads up first before preforming any operation. A scientist reads up first before preforming any test/ experiment. A hairdresser also looks up fashions...but when it comes to religion people want to see what the other does rather than reading it up? REALLY?

Maybe it is true in Paksitan's case that people have followed what they considered Islam rather than reading the Quran which should have been, a very good example comes to mind.

The Martial Law Regulation No. 51 which was imposed in 1969, it was to punish everyone who was in possession or published anything offensive to Islam, however the irony was it was not defined what was offensive to Islam. This regulation came under Yahya Khan, I'm sure we cannot call him illiterate or incapable to understand Islam.
 
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One should be suicidal to do that in pakistan
 
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I don't know if her forced conversion story is true or false. If its true then i really feel sorry for her but i dont think we should take this one example to generalize whole nation or all Pakistani. She is not even Muslim if she was forced into Islam so technically she is still Hindu.

There is no compulsion in religion . Message of Islam has to be accepted by one's own free will and own initiative because unlike animals we are given the freedom of choice to select our line of action. We know even messenger of God was not allowed by Allah to force people into accepting his message so who are these idiots who think they doping good deed to convert propels into islam when their heart is not accepting it
 
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Am i talking about Islam in Indonesia, Malaysia. the thread is about pakistan and its radical elements. Stick to the topic, Why are you bringing other countries here.

Well, since it suits your stance here, you don't wanna talk about it now. Dude think whatever you wanna think....the historical facts will be facts...and the purpose of mentioning those places was that "NO" Islam didn't spread through sword.
 
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Fifty years ago an American author asked why minority blacks felt alienated. He decided to do something nobody thought of before: change his identity and skin color from white to black so he could write about the change in his day-to-day experience in his book, Black Like Me.

Why not try something similar? Why not assume a new Hindu or Christian identity and tell everyone what it feels like in everyday experiences, contrasting it with what you felt as a Muslim in similar situations?

First of all, many of us are aware of the plight of our minorities. Their suffering is quite apparent, & if we require to learn more about the difficulties they face, we can do so by interacting with them personally. That might not be as great as a method of learning in comparison to first hand experience, but it's still reliable, feasible, & efficient. Secondly, converting to another religion is a lot different than changing your skin color via medication. If a person converts to another religion, there is no difference in his or her's appearance. That means that as long as a person doesn't go about boasting about his or her religion, there is probably going to be no difference if any in the treatment received by the individual whatsoever. It should be apparent by now that for this experiment to work, a person requires declaring his or her belief to his or her friends, & perhaps even take part in the new religion's rituals & practices.

This is where a major problem arises. A Muslim can not take part in the rituals & practices of another religion, even if he or she was simply conducting a social experiment. For example; you won't find any Muslim that would agree to prostrating to an idol, even if it was simply for the sake of an experiment. Besides, Muslims are forbidden to declare themselves as members of another religion as long as there is no threat of persecution, torture, or death. There are Islamic traditions backing this up, & I can present them if required as evidence. It should be clear to you by now, that your suggestion is unfeasible for me or any other Pakistani Muslim. A better approach to this experiment would be to ask a Pakistani Hindu or Christian if they are willing to pretend to be a Muslim, & write about their experience as a Muslim & contrast it to their experience as a Hindu or Christian.
 
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First of all, many of us are aware of the plight of our minorities...if we require to learn more about the difficulties they face, we can do so by interacting with them personally -
If you think that way you may want to buy the Black Like Me book, its author used to think the same before he made his color switch.

converting to another religion is a lot different than changing your skin color via medication.
You could just pretend. Yeah, you'll have to study a bit. True, you can't experience the family life but you'll make new friends in a new city.

a major problem arises. A Muslim can not take part in the rituals & practices of another religion, even if he or she was simply conducting a social experiment. For example; you won't find any Muslim that would agree to prostrating to an idol -
Doubtless you'd deal with that challenge if necessary.

Muslims are forbidden to declare themselves as members of another religion as long as there is no threat of persecution, torture, or death.
Since in Pakistan blasphemy carries the death penalty you can be sure this proviso can't apply.

A better approach to this experiment would be to ask a Pakistani Hindu or Christian if they are willing to pretend to be a Muslim, & write about their experience as a Muslim & contrast it to their experience as a Hindu or Christian.
Of course, you'll have to work hard to convince whoever it is that they'll be able to write up their experience and return to their normal life at their previous religion without fearing for life, limb, or property. That sounds like a very tough sell. You're asking the non-Muslim to risk all these things, because you are unwilling to risk - say, what exactly would you be risking, in your own words?
 
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Since in Pakistan blasphemy carries the death penalty you can be sure this proviso can't apply.

can you name any person who got death penalty because of this Blasphemy laws? :no:

"Whoever, with the deliberate intention of wounding the religious feelings of any person, utters any word or makes any sound in the hearing of that person or makes any gesture in the sight of that person or places any object in the sight of that person, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both"
 
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can you name any person who got death penalty because of this Blasphemy laws? :no:
I specifically did not mention law. That's because in Pakistan people get shot by their bodyguards or lynched by a mob before the blasphemy law can be applied. The death penalty is thus clearly a social phenomenon more than a legal one.
 
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I specifically did not mention law. That's because in Pakistan people get shot by their bodyguards or lynched by a mob before the blasphemy law can be applied. The death penalty is thus clearly a social phenomenon more than a legal one.

well you were not talking about peoples but blasphemy laws and no judicial execution for blasphemy has ever occurred in Pakistan

If some people got killed by their body guard then their killer got arrested too for charges of murders
 
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Raja, what do you make of the suggestion p(-)0ENiX masquerade as a Hindu or Christian for a while?
 
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If you think that way you may want to buy the Black Like Me book, its author used to think the same before he made his color switch.

Didn't I say that "that might not be as great as a method of learning in comparison to first hand experience, but it's still reliable, feasible, & efficient"?

You could just pretend. Yeah, you'll have to study a bit. True, you can't experience the family life but you'll make new friends in a new city.

That's the point you don't understand. A Muslim is forbidden from pretending to be a follower of another religion as long as there is no threat of persecution, torture, or death.

Doubtless you'd deal with that challenge if necessary.

Sorry, but I can't prostrate to an idol simply for the sake of an experiment. Don't you recall that a Muslim may not prostrate to an idol except under threat of torture or death?

Since in Pakistan blasphemy carries the death penalty you can be sure this proviso can't apply.

What do you mean by this? Are you implying that a person need not partake in their religious rituals for the sake of this experiment just because of the blasphemy law? Don't you think that practicing the religious rituals of the belief is important for the experiment you are suggesting to work? The logic behind this is that you will get to observe the reactions of the Muslims if you were to practice your belief openly.

Of course, you'll have to work hard to convince whoever it is that they'll be able to write up their experience and return to their normal life at their previous religion without fearing for life, limb, or property. That sounds like a very tough sell. You're asking the non-Muslim to risk all these things, because

Convincing anyone to take part in such an experiment taking in to account the existence of the blasphemy law would be extremely difficult. I am not asking & neither will I ever force a non-Muslim to risk anything for such an experiment, here is what I stated in my original reply to you:

"A better approach to this experiment would be to ask a Pakistani Hindu or Christian if they are willing to pretend to be a Muslim, & write about their experience as a Muslim & contrast it to their experience as a Hindu or Christian."

No one can be forced to take part in this experiment, & it's true that due to the existence of the blasphemy law, I doubt anyone would take part in this experiment even if it was feasible to do so.

you are unwilling to risk - say, what exactly would you be risking, in your own words?

What is the point of such a question? Both Muslims & non-Muslims face similar risks if they were to conduct this experiment. Why then should either risk their "life, limb, or property"? If you are implying that we are too fearful or unwilling to risk the consequences resulting from such an experiment, I assure you that that is not the case, & we are certainly not cowards. As I said earlier, it is forbidden for a Muslim to pretend to be a follower of another religion except under threat of persecution, torture, or death.

Besides, you can't just ask people to conduct random experiments. You do realize that we have duties, commitments, & responsibilities to fulfill towards our families? How many social experiments have you conducted? In conclusion, I guess it's safe to say that it's unlikely that such an experiment would be taking place anytime soon. We can not abandon our beliefs or disobey some of the most important Islamic laws for this experiment. We will have to rely on other means to learn about the problems our religious minorities are facing, & then come up with solutions to help them.

Raja, what do you make of the suggestion p(-)0ENiX masquerade as a Hindu or Christian for a while?

No one else's views are required since I am not going to conduct that experiment.
 
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As I said earlier, it is forbidden for a Muslim to pretend to be a follower of another religion except under threat of persecution, torture, or death.
That's exactly what people in Pakistan are faced with. Hindus, Christians, Ahmadis, Shias, Sufis. Tomorrow it may be you, yes? Perhaps you can help your society escape this fate if you step forward?

You do realize that we have duties, commitments, & responsibilities to fulfill towards our families?
Indeed I do. And I wonder how many Pakistanis have reached the point where they realize that the success of their families depends upon the good functioning of their community as a whole - and decide to work for such betterment at home rather than flee abroad.

...such an experiment -
Not experiment. Observation.

We will have to rely on other means to learn about the problems our religious minorities are facing, & then come up with solutions to help them.
These have been tried and they have failed you for one reason or another. Unless you can persuade yourself that repeating such things can be useful, doesn't that mean you have to try a different approach?

If you are still objecting or hesitating about taking the step, I suggest reading Black Like Me at this point.
 
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That's exactly what people in Pakistan are faced with. Hindus, Christians, Ahmadis, Shias, Sufis. Tomorrow it may be you, yes? Perhaps you can help your society escape this fate if you step forward?

Can you still not understand that Islam forbids Muslims from pretending to be non-Muslims, except when under threat of persecution, torture, or death? How many times must I repeat this? Do you really want us to break our religious commandments? How helpful was the book you referred to in dealing with discrimination in the USA? As for helping our society, there are other ways for us to help our religious minorities. The article written by the author in the original post brings to light the suffering of religious minorities, that itself is one method of helping the religious minorities. If someone was to attack a Pakistani Christian in front of me for no reason, I would defend him or her & not simply standby & watch an innocent person get humiliated & abused.

Indeed I do. And I wonder how many Pakistanis have reached the point where they realize that the success of their families depends upon the good functioning of their community as a whole - and decide to work for such betterment at home rather than flee abroad.

We do realize that good functioning of our societies would help our families. By the way, most of us haven't fled abroad. I have family in Pakistan, & I can return there anytime I want. I am certainly not in any danger whatsoever, either here in Arabia or back home in Pakistan. If we did not care about our minorities, we wouldn't have bothered to discuss their plight.

Not experiment. Observation.

Look up the difference between "observe" & "experiment". Both of those terms are not the same thing.

These have been tried and they have failed you for one reason or another. Unless you can persuade yourself that repeating such things can be useful, doesn't that mean you have to try a different approach?

If you are still objecting or hesitating about taking the step, I suggest reading Black Like Me at this point.

Other methods of learning about the suffering of our religious minorities haven't failed me or anyone else. The problem is that our society needs to come up with solutions to help & protect them & then implement those solutions.

Why can't we learn about the problems our religious minorities are facing without masquerading as non-Muslims? As for reading that book, I can read it if I wanted to, but I can not conduct the experiment that you have suggested. As I said earlier, the best thing to do would be to ask a willing non-Muslim to conduct this experiment. You must realize that there is a major difference in changing your skin color & changing your religion, none of us desire to renounce their beliefs for the sake of an experiment.

I suggest you read up on the Islamic views regarding concealment of faith. Click on the Wikipedia link below, it presents its view from Sunni Islam's perspective. Since I am a Sunni Muslim, that is the only perspective I am going to focus on. I know Wikipedia isn't that reliable, but in this case, the source seems to be fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya#Sunni_Islam_view
 
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