Manzoor Pashteen: The voice of Pashtuns for many in Pakistan - aljazeera

[TheLahoriGuy]

That's not true mate.. Army is sponsoring his kids education. Why would army do that? Can you explain the reason?


Why do you say establishment is protecting him. Do you have evidence and more important reason to justify that behaviour. Pakistan army is totally with Najib ullah Mehsoud's family and supporting and sponsoring their education. Why do you guys not get your head out of your behinds and stop playing in the hands of the enemies of the country and parroting their propaganda?

Playing in the hands of the enemy ? I take it the enemy is called common sense.
There are only three things that come to mind as to why Rao Anwar still hasn't been caught.

1. The agencies don't want to find him.
2. The agencies are either sheltering him or are allowing him to run free on purpose.
3. The agencies don't have the ability to find him.

If you have some other theory then I'm all ears.

 

[ziaulislam]

Who dose not want to allow merger of FATA and so on.. Achakzai and others who are pashtoons.. KPK could have played a good role in bringing all parties to agree on FATA..

PML N and its allies
-------------
despite pressure from all parties and army
-----------------
sucessful countries encourage dialogue and resolutions of problem not swpt everything under the rug
--------------------
sucessfulcountries go for inculsion of its people leaders not blame each of them traitors

for many bhutto is traitors, for others its zia, for some its bacha khan

as long as all of them swear oath to constitution and people of Pakistan they should not be blamed for their earlier beliefs, things are not black and white as we see them

for bacha khan it wasnt straight decision to join pakistan, half of pushtoons were not in KPK, remember the people rejected his idea, so for the minority who still believes in his good work(part of his work was still noble) should not be cursed or blamed

remeber what we did to him after 1947, we just locked him in jail till he went in exile instead of reconciliation

remeber nazi germany was based upon the idea to unit Germany/german people scattered among many countries, at time when europe burned them selve down for race you blame bacha khan for trying to keep his pushtoon united?

we need to understand that its pakistan that defines pushtoons(more than 70% live in pakistan, some in afghanistan), punjabis(some live in India), sindhis and baloch(some live in afghanistan and iran)

no one can claim that they are presented by india, afgahnistan or iran as majority doesnt live there

same is true for germans, german live in many countries but its germany that defines them not other german speakingcountries (such as Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and other historically-tied countries like Luxembourg)


PS:
bacha khan party later signed 1973 constitution, to most pushtoons he is not a leader but to some that he is , we should respect that

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

It's funny seeing the boot gang in this thread who's idea of dealing with anything is to kill it. Doesn't work like that. This is not the first time we are facing such a situation. But sadly even after three such incidents some lads think they will deal with things "with an iron fist" and then things will be all hearts and butterflies.

Here's what the iron fist (and the people who support it) got us. They lost us half the country in 1971. Then had thousands killed in Karachi in the early 90's and alienated millions ( and eventually covering the city in blood for the next 15 years). Sparked an anti-state rebellion in the late 2000's in our most precious province. And now here we are at the cross roads again and like all three incidents before instead of negotiating and trying to improve the situation we are further alienating them and proving their point.

I'm not saying that all of these instances didn't have foreign backing or foreign influence. But it takes two things to fuel a rebellion. Resources and an idealogy. And even if we assume the resources are foreign there's no doubt that we practically handed over the reasons ourselves.

 

[Kabira]

there are two ways to deal with this threat
1. ignore it call them insignificant and racial (Exactly what we did in bengal) and stop any form reforms in FATA for personal poltical gains
2. or consider that atleast some of it geniune and take steps to correct it...reforms in FATA, quick return of IDPs, improving relationships with Afghanistan people, this can be done via imporving trade, stricter boarder control and simultaneously making it easier for legal transit

so far it seems PMLN and their supporters are doing no.1

Pashteen isn't asking for FATA reforms. When asked about FATA reform he refused to answer.

He is against army operations, against check posts, nadra crackdown against illegals afghanis. He basically want Pakistan to surrender to taliban in the name of pashtuns. He is more like afghani snake who now know their days are numbered with border fence and police/nadra crackdown. He is basically against only good thing Pak army have done in last 40 years since start of Afghan Jihad.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pashteen isn't asking for FATA reforms. When asked about FATA reform he refused to answer.

He is against army operations, against check posts, nadra crackdown against illegals afghanis. He basically want Pakistan to surrender to taliban in the name of pashtuns. He is more like afghani snake who now know their days are numbered with border fence and police/nadra crackdown. He is basically against only good thing Pak army have done in last 40 years since start of Afghan Jihad.

topic isnt related to him, i dont care what he says or speaks i even haven't listened to him, pakistan should act as democracy, every body should be allowed to speak their mind but not allowed to do anything wrong or support terroism

check point is pain for some people so is military operations, i will not pretend to understand that pain, as i am not displaced and forced to live in camps and noone can claim to understand it

but i and many other believe that it was necessary and Pakistan did it best to avoid it which didnt work(the reason why military operation was delayed so much)

 

[Haris Mansoor]

I agree with you, but please. It has nothing to do with Punjabi or Pashtun. These corrupt scum bags protect their own regardless of their ethnicity. All patriotic Pakistanis are with the oppressed. To me all Pakistanis are equal and I stand with my Pakistani Pashtun brothers in their hour of bereavement.

I appreciate your stance. But as for as Federal Government, the Nooras, it is about Pashtun and Punjabes, and regarding Army, I don't know about the upper level command but in field command, they don't treat people here as a Pakistani and the ORs do not reference Taliban as Taliban or terrorist, when ever they reference to Taliban, they says, Pathans and this is not some cooked up thing, I have friends in Army, and they use to talk like that.

 

[ziaulislam]

remember there are still many pushtoons who dont want durand line, as they are many punjabis who dont want partition, this doesn't chnage the majority opinion

I appreciate your stance. But as for as Federal Government, the Nooras, it is about Pashtun and Punjabes, and regarding Army, I don't know about the upper level command but in field command, they don't treat people here as a Pakistani and the ORs do not reference Taliban as Taliban or terrorist, when ever they reference to Taliban, they says, Pathans and this is not some cooked up thing, I have friends in Army, and they use to talk like that.

these are real problems, and need to be addressed and more importantly discussed not swept under the rug, we should be open to our problems and discuss it otherwise it will be like what happened in kasur..you face problems even if its a rare or uncommon thing..look at racial abuse in USA, very rare in modern USA but fully discussed

 

[HAIDER]

Qatari fassad from flaring up ethnic tension in Pakistan to corruption.

iska pass bhi Qatari khat ha ....Those people love Afghanistan or discovering there Afghan roots, why don't they go to Afghanistan . Why they cry in Pakistan. Its all because Pakistani Pashtuns are most educated and all good universities in Peshawar .... These Afghans are pain in the arse. They love trouble or creating troubles for others.

 

[Kabira]

topic isnt related to him, i dont care what he says or speaks i even haven't listened to him, pakistan should act as democracy, every body should be allowed to speak their mind but not allowed to do anything wrong or support terroism

check point is pain for some people so is military operations, i will not pretend to understand that pain, as i am not displaced and forced to live in camps and noone can claim to understand it

but i and many other believe that it was necessary and Pakistan did it best to avoid it which didnt work(the reason why military operation was delayed so much)

Topic is about Manzoor pashteen. Otherwise only 2 people are against FATA reforms, not Nawaz. Achakzai for afghan reasons and Moulana for political reasons.

But his demand have nothing to do with FATA reforms which only very few people outside FATA are against. I'm not sure about check posts but I doubt 100% of them have soldiers from punjab as nationalists would like us to believe. When someone pointed that out he said all these pashtuns in army are not from us, typical afghani snake trait.

In recent suicide blast in Lahore by TTP if it wasn't for checkpost then they could have killed 100 people instead of 10. Checkposts are pain for 99.99% of people but they help prevent 0.01% of terrorists who otherwise would sneak in to blow themselves up.

 

[Haris Mansoor]

Pashteen is afghani snake. Here is how. Yes Zia was responsible for current **** up. But how? By allowing afghanis in Pakistan, not sealing border and going in to afghan jihad. Does he talk about that? Probably not because all his afghani refugee supporters in Pakistan will not like that.

Instead he blame current army for operations which have brought peace in pashtun belt, another evidence of being afghani snake. This is fault Pakistan for feeding them for decades now is time for consequences.

Rao Anwer is excuse and have nothing to do with army. His other demand was removal of check posts which would mean inviting terrorists back. Not sure if locals of Waziristan want that but even if they do then rest of Pakistan which get blown to pieces don't. When someone ask him about terrorists he says APS/and sucide blasts were carried by army.

His other point about crackdown by police/Nadra is true because most of illegal with CNIC are afghani pahtuns. And for that reason some Pak pashtuns may also get difficulties dealing with police/Nadra for that reason. This is why we need to go back to point one and how Zia allowed afghanis. Root cause of all problems in Pakistan are afghanis and they need to go back as soon possible. And their illegal CNIC cancelled, if Manzoor pashteen doesn't talk about this then he is afghani snake funded by India. You will soon find him in Kabul or Geneva.

He is Afghan snake similarly as Army is America's puppet, if Mazoor get funding from Afghan/India, according to your allegations then Army is taking funding (openly) from America to kill Pashtun, what you say about this?
Afghan refugee was here for more than two decade, why they didn't caused problem for Pakistan. Pakistan was peaceful country before 9/11, Musharraf being an Army Chief took the decision to support US, get fund from us and work for US, that caused problem for Pakistan, even that doesn't the Army operation is south and north waziristan caused the problem.
I haven't listened him yet, I don't know what are his demands, but majority of people in the effected area blames ISI for all the killings, although I argue with them on this point and deny this allegation against ISI, but they do blame ISI with logical reasons.
As for the check post is concerned, why the rest of Pakistan doesn't ask Army to create check post around their cities and town to protect them as these checkposts did nothing, all the "Pakistan which get blown to pieces" happened with these checkpost being there and didn't prevented a single attack.
All the planned attacks that failed, was due to the Intelligence agencies, """With pin point accuracy""" not these checkposts.

remember there are still many pushtoons who dont want durand line, as they are many punjabis who dont want partition, this doesn't chnage the majority opinion


these are real problems, and need to be addressed and more importantly discussed not swept under the rug, we should be open to our problems and discuss it otherwise it will be like what happened in kasur..you face problems even if its a rare or uncommon thing..look at racial abuse in USA, very rare in modern USA but fully discussed

I know there are Pashtuns, who don't recognize it as a border, I don't know if something like this exists in Punjab, but this is what Manzoor is trying to address.
People here are getting angry with army due to their actions, with what happens with them at checkposts, in Swat the whole industry of stone crushing is banned by the army, people are not allowed to carry out any construction work without permission from Army, even inside their own homes. From last about 8-10 years on every Sunday they impose curfew on Bannu-Miranshah road, and "thus Army Killing" many innocent Pushtun patients by not allowing them to hospital.
Manzoor wants to solve these problem of pushtun so now he is Afghan/Indian Agent. If anyone who wants to lead Pushtun, he will be labeled as enemy of the state???

 

[ziaulislam]

He is Afghan snake similarly as Army is America's puppet, if Mazoor get funding from Afghan/India, according to your allegations then Army is taking funding (openly) from America to kill Pashtun, what you say about this?
Afghan refugee was here for more than two decade, why they didn't caused problem for Pakistan. Pakistan was peaceful country before 9/11, Musharraf being an Army Chief took the decision to support US, get fund from us and work for US, that caused problem for Pakistan, even that doesn't the Army operation is south and north waziristan caused the problem.
I haven't listened him yet, I don't know what are his demands, but majority of people in the effected area blames ISI for all the killings, although I argue with them on this point and deny this allegation against ISI, but they do blame ISI with logical reasons.
As for the check post is concerned, why the rest of Pakistan doesn't ask Army to create check post around their cities and town to protect them as these checkposts did nothing, all the "Pakistan which get blown to pieces" happened with these checkpost being there and didn't prevented a single attack.
All the planned attacks that failed, was due to the Intelligence agencies, """With pin point accuracy""" not these checkposts.


I know there are Pashtuns, who don't recognize it as a border, I don't know if something like this exists in Punjab, but this is what Manzoor is trying to address.
People here are getting angry with army due to their actions, with what happens with them at checkposts, in Swat the whole industry of stone crushing is banned by the army, people are not allowed to carry out any construction work without permission from Army, even inside their own homes. From last about 8-10 years on every Sunday they impose curfew on Bannu-Miranshah road, and "thus Army Killing" many innocent Pushtun patients by not allowing them to hospital.
Manzoor wants to solve these problem of pushtun so now he is Afghan/Indian Agent. If anyone who wants to lead Pushtun, he will be labeled as enemy of the state???

i am angry with him too if he says durand line should nt exist or shouldnt be regulated

Topic is about Manzoor pashteen. Otherwise only 2 people are against FATA reforms, not Nawaz. Achakzai for afghan reasons and Moulana for political reasons.

But his demand have nothing to do with FATA reforms which only very few people outside FATA are against. I'm not sure about check posts but I doubt 100% of them have soldiers from punjab as nationalists would like us to believe. When someone pointed that out he said all these pashtuns in army are not from us, typical afghani snake trait.

In recent suicide blast in Lahore by TTP if it wasn't for checkpost then they could have killed 100 people instead of 10. Checkposts are pain for 99.99% of people but they help prevent 0.01% of terrorists who otherwise would sneak in to blow themselves up.

i condemn him if he said so, he could be on payrole of some nationalist afghan or smuggler family who knows..my point was the point of is that there are issues and shouldnt be swept under the rug
as for durand line, see this video

 

[Haris Mansoor]

i am angry with him too if he says durand line should nt exist or shouldnt be regulated

Durand line is international border, but I don't want it to be regulated, because in my opinion it is not the root cause of the problem, root cause is far away than that border.

 

[Kabira]

He is Afghan snake similarly as Army is America's puppet, if Mazoor get funding from Afghan/India, according to your allegations then Army is taking funding (openly) from America to kill Pashtun, what you say about this?
Afghan refugee was here for more than two decade, why they didn't caused problem for Pakistan. Pakistan was peaceful country before 9/11, Musharraf being an Army Chief took the decision to support US, get fund from us and work for US, that caused problem for Pakistan, even that doesn't the Army operation is south and north waziristan caused the problem.
I haven't listened him yet, I don't know what are his demands, but majority of people in the effected area blames ISI for all the killings, although I argue with them on this point and deny this allegation against ISI, but they do blame ISI with logical reasons.
As for the check post is concerned, why the rest of Pakistan doesn't ask Army to create check post around their cities and town to protect them as these checkposts did nothing, all the "Pakistan which get blown to pieces" happened with these checkpost being there and didn't prevented a single attack.
All the planned attacks that failed, was due to the Intelligence agencies, """With pin point accuracy""" not these checkposts.

I blame army generals of 80's who joined afghan jihad and allowed afghanis in Pakistan. Then Musharraf who had less options then Zia because of 9/11 again got in to afghan war without first dealing with afghan problem in Pakistan and securing border. Current lot want to rectify that mistake.

Relations with USA is all time low. TTP didn't kill Americans. Yes army killed terrorists who happen to be pashtuns and mostly Mehsuds. These same pashtuns mostly killed other pashtuns in bomb blasts. Pashteen who used to go to school in KP complained people asked him how much money you guys take to blow up. Pretty sure he was being asked this by other pashtuns in KP so him using ethnic pashtun card is oxymoron. People from Waziristan are also harassed by KP police. There is no logic in blaming ISI/army for terrorist attacks and APS, that just stretching even if someone hate army. Believing in conspiracy theories is common in Pakistan.

Check posts are everywhere in cities, do I need to remind you about recent Lahore blast by TTP in police check post. They prevent terrorists to reach their target.

 

[ziaulislam]

Durand line is international border, but I don't want it to be regulated, because in my opinion it is not the root cause of the problem, root cause is far away than that border.

in my opinion it is..smuggling, drug trade(world 95% opium) and arms all follow from it..

now if there was peace and actual govt in Afghanistan than your argument was worth discussion

so you are living in fools paradise if you think otherwise

 

[Haris Mansoor]

Current lot want to rectify that mistake.

Rectifying mistake by other mistake.

Relations with USA is all time low. TTP didn't kill Americans.

This thread has nothing to do with Pakistan relations with USA or TTP killing Americans or not, yes it related to Pakistan taking funds, first to make fellow Pakistani, fight against govt and then kill them using the amo got from america using money got from america.

These same pashtuns mostly killed other pashtuns in bomb blasts. Pashteen who used to go to school in KP complained people asked him how much money you guys take to blow up. Pretty sure he was being asked this by other pashtuns in KP so him using ethnic pashtun card is oxymoron.

this is what I am saying, TTP was not for Pushtun...

People from Waziristan are also harassed by KP police.

This was the case before current provincial govt, when Police was a type of terror organization like the rest of Pakistan, not anymore.