Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[A.P. Richelieu]

You are absolutely right. In my views, IAF might be looking for 36 more Rafaels to add and there are rumours of IAF buying used Malaysian MiG-29s. Moreover, IAF can also get M-2000s from France with upgrades like they are getting some used Jaguars. This will keep the fleet up and be running.

FGFA, MCA, and LCA will arrive soon! But I think Russia is also keen to sell MiG-35 to IAF too...

Looks more wrong than right. More Rafales may be coming, but at the expense of FGFA.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/08/adding-36-more-rafales-will-prove-to-be.html

 

[X_Killer]

With six crashes, you do not have enough statistical material.
Out of those six crashes you have probably four pilot errors.

By the way, Gripen met with 10 crashes.
And f-16 pilots are not god , they too made mistakes.

Meanwhile neither F/A-18 nor Rafale are useable on Indias carriers because they
are too large for the elevators...

For your Kind info, F/A-18 already have folded wings and it easily fits on elevators with its folded wings.
for rafale, Dassault promised to give folded wing config when selected. It can easily achieve in max 2.5 - 3 months.
Its very obvious that Gripen will not be there because it has single engine config (go through the tender doc)

And India is considering scrapping the FGFA to get 36 more Rafales, not the SE project.
France will not accept production in India for such low numbers.

Now, This is known as HOT AIR

Noone knows the outcome. IAF will do an evaluation, but before that can be acted on,
Those "confident" members are generally producing hot air, but not much more.

I'm only talking on facts and with unbiased view. Both LM & Saab are same for me.
you may mark my words and quote me if you find any SE jet deal before 2019.

India might have a new government, which may have a very different idea
on what needs to be done.

Don't worry there will be no change in government before 2024


Good Day

 

[Dark Lord Forever]

before we say india buy this india buy that. big question must ask is india having money to buy?

By the way, Gripen met with 10 crashes.
And f-16 pilots are not god , they too made mistakes.



For your Kind info, F/A-18 already have folded wings and it easily fits on elevators with its folded wings.
for rafale, Dassault promised to give folded wing config when selected. It can easily achieve in max 2.5 - 3 months.
Its very obvious that Gripen will not be there because it has single engine config (go through the tender doc)

Now, This is known as HOT AIR


I'm only talking on facts and with unbiased view. Both LM & Saab are same for me.
you may mark my words and quote me if you find any SE jet deal before 2019.


Don't worry there will be no change in government before 2024


Good Day

how you critisize other plane when we indians can't make tejas fly? we need to buy what is cheap. no?

 

[X_Killer]

You are absolutely right. In my views, IAF might be looking for 36 more Rafaels to add and there are rumours of IAF buying used Malaysian MiG-29s. Moreover, IAF can also get M-2000s from France with upgrades like they are getting some used Jaguars. This will keep the fleet up and be running.

IAF is getting french jags for logistics purpose only and have no plan for second hand Mirage 2K.
There are bargaining talks for malaysian mig-29 for which India have to provide the Logistics and services for Malaysian Sukhois. Results of talks will be cleared soon.

FGFA, MCA, and LCA will arrive soon! But I think Russia is also keen to sell MiG-35 to IAF too...

FGFA is planned to induct in IAF by 2023 onwards and LCA is under production buildup to churn out all jet at 16 units per year. AMCA would make it first flight by 2024 possibly or it might be delayed.

before we say india buy this india buy that. big question must ask is india having money to buy?

how you critisize other plane when we indians can't make tejas fly? we need to buy what is cheap. no?

1st. you should go through the Indian defense budget to get the details about the funds.
2nd. As I said before, None of the aircraft is bad. But one may be less capable than other , when compared to each other.
3rd. Who said Tejas is not flying? Do you know, LCA is technically more capable than its counterpart resides to western border which even can't guide LGBs.
4th.We need to buy what is economic , effective as well as efficient.

 

[Dark Lord Forever]

1st. you should go through the Indian defense budget to get the details about the funds.
2nd. As I said before, None of the aircraft is bad. But one may be less capable than other , when compared to each other.
3rd. Who said Tejas is not flying? Do you know, LCA is technically more capable than its counterpart resides to western border which even can't guide LGBs.
4th.We need to buy what is economic , effective as well as efficient.

i only told about money because people on other forum are saying big issue with money so we can't buy more rafale or pakfa. i won't name that forum but you must know.

tejas is having issue and was grounded 1 year ago. now no sign of FOC. so not good for flying. if it flys we can't produce more than 4 planes in 1 year so not useful in war.

we need economic so tejas is perfect but need to fix it.

 

[Hulk]

i only told about money because people on other forum are saying big issue with money so we can't buy more rafale or pakfa. i won't name that forum but you must know.

tejas is having issue and was grounded 1 year ago. now no sign of FOC. so not good for flying. if it flys we can't produce more than 4 planes in 1 year so not useful in war.

we need economic so tejas is perfect but need to fix it.

For someone who does not even know that Tejas is flying it already is having many SP variants and nearing FOC. Do you think such ignorant people even deserve a response. We encourage such trolls who have no other intention but to troll by responding to their stupidity.

 

[Dark Lord Forever]

For someone who does not even know that Tejaj is flying it already is having many SP variants and nearing FOC. Do you think such ignorant people even deserve a response. We encourage such trolls who have no other intention but to troll by responding to their stupidity.

it is not tejaj but tejas or teja.

i know it can fly. everyone knows this we have seen photos. when i say it can't fly it means it can't fly for air force. in other words it is not flyworthy. tejas can't fly with full load weapons because no FOC. so what is good flying a plane empty? only burden.

 

[X_Killer]

i only told about money because people on other forum are saying big issue with money so we can't buy more rafale or pakfa. i won't name that forum but you must know.

Do you know the standalone cost of 36 Rafales and possible cost of FGFA deal?

tejas is having issue and was grounded 1 year ago.

tejas performed @ aero india in feb'17

On 15 aug, I saw 3 LCAs in formation at Bangalore.

now no sign of FOC. so not good for flying. if it flys we can't produce more than 4 planes in 1 year so not useful in war.

At present, we are churning out LCA at 8 units per year and by end of 2018 it would raise to 16 units per year.
And before making any comment on it , you have to know that the primary role of LCA is point defense.

we need economic so tejas is perfect but need to fix it.

Tejas is already fine and now HAL is testing our Indigenously developed Uttam AESA and DARE's EW duite that is why FOC is postponed to 2018

NOTE: Don't make false comments

it is not tejaj but tejas or teja.

i know it can fly. everyone knows this we have seen photos. when i say it can't fly it means it can't fly for air force. in other words it is not flyworthy. tejas can't fly with full load weapons because no FOC. so what is good flying a plane empty? only burden.

Do you know none of the chinese jets have neither IOC nor FOC including JF-17.
Tejas tested more than enough firepower that can easily burn enemies ***.


Tejas Firing Python 5

Tejas successfully tested Derby BVR

Tejas Launching LGB and R73

Tejas with full weapon load

More images

 

[Hulk]

it is not tejaj but tejas or teja.

i know it can fly. everyone knows this we have seen photos. when i say it can't fly it means it can't fly for air force. in other words it is not flyworthy. tejas can't fly with full load weapons because no FOC. so what is good flying a plane empty? only burden.

Thanks for pointing the typo, I fixed it. You remain a troll to me with no idea what you are talking. Worst you do not even have your flags right. I still don't discuss with trolls.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

By the way, Gripen met with 10 crashes.
And f-16 pilots are not god , they too made mistakes.



For your Kind info, F/A-18 already have folded wings and it easily fits on elevators with its folded wings.
for rafale, Dassault promised to give folded wing config when selected. It can easily achieve in max 2.5 - 3 months.
Its very obvious that Gripen will not be there because it has single engine config (go through the tender doc)

Now, This is known as HOT AIR


I'm only talking on facts and with unbiased view. Both LM & Saab are same for me.
you may mark my words and quote me if you find any SE jet deal before 2019.


Don't worry there will be no change in government before 2024


Good Day

As You do not read, I repeat the article.

Despite recent reports that the two Western MRCBF competitors could operate from INS Vikramaditya in addition to the Indian Navy’s future carriers, this is simply not possible. The converted Soviet-era ‘aircraft carrying cruiser’ has two aircraft elevators that are located within the flight deck, instead of on the deck-edges, and both are too small to accommodate either the Super Hornet or the Rafale. The larger forward lift, beside the carrier’s superstructure, is 18.8 x 9.9 metres, while the Super Hornet’s wings fold to just under 10 metres and the Rafale’s wings, slightly less than 11 metres wide, do not fold at all. The aft lift is narrower, with an 8.6-metre width that is barely able to fit the MiG-29K’s 7.5-metre folded span. The Naval LCA, with a wingspan of a little over eight metres, would certainly have fit the forward lift if not the aft one – the Navy prefers for aircraft carrier elevators to be sufficiently larger than the aircraft they will carry for ease of aircraft handling and movement.
The real ‘show stopper’ for the entire MRCBF requirement, however, is the configuration of IAC-1. Unlike Vikramaditya, and like most contemporary carriers, the aircraft lifts on IAC-1 are positioned on the starboard edge of the deck allowing longer aircraft to ‘hang out’ over the water with only their landing gear on the platform. But because the carrier was designed around an air wing of MiG-29Ks and Naval LCAs, the lifts were sized for wingspans no larger than eight metres. 10 x 14 metres, to be precise. While MiG-29Ks and N-LCAs can fit on these lifts with parts of their noses or empennages hanging over the edges, the Super Hornet and Rafale once again cannot.

So no, the folding wings of the Super Hornet are about 10 meters wide.
You claim that this will fit in an 8,6 m wide elevator.

My guess is that You invented the idea that Dassault can create folding wings for the Rafale
in a few months. You are pretty careless with facts.

You also reject articles in India as Hot Air, while you make claim after claim without any basis.
Published a link where IAF announced the possible replacement of FGFA with Rafale.
Much more meat than anything you dream up.

 

[Dark Lord Forever]

Do you know the standalone cost of 36 Rafales and possible cost of FGFA deal?

tejas performed @ aero india in feb'17

On 15 aug, I saw 3 LCAs in formation at Bangalore.

At present, we are churning out LCA at 8 units per year and by end of 2018 it would raise to 16 units per year.
And before making any comment on it , you have to know that the primary role of LCA is point defense.

No india only has 4 tejas now. and will have 2 more this year. i confirm this from other defence forum. so no 8 per year is not true. only 4 per year is happening.

Tejas is already fine and now HAL is testing our Indigenously developed Uttam AESA and DARE's EW duite that is why FOC is postponed to 2018

they are saying FOC next year since 2010. it is 7 years still no FOC. next year is not coming.

NOTE: Don't make false comments

I am expert on this things.

Do you know none of the chinese jets have neither IOC nor FOC including JF-17.
Tejas tested more than enough firepower that can easily burn enemies ***.

because chinese make evrything in blocks. it is constantly upgrading planes. tejas is not like this. so please don't compare. also remember there are hundres and hundreds JF17 flying with pakistani air force but only 4 in indian air force. so please don't compare great chinese planes with pethetic indian tejas.

Tejas Firing Python 5

Tejas successfully tested Derby BVR

Tejas Launching LGB and R73

Tejas with full weapon load

More images

all trials. not final configuration. weapons trials are failing so no FOC. or something big wrong with tejas.

so in short tejas is not flyworthy for airforce. tejas is only face saving project of india. so this is why india buying rafale.

Thanks for pointing the typo, I fixed it. You remain a troll to me with no idea what you are talking. Worst you do not even have your flags right. I still don't discuss with trolls.

you are speaking with expert in this filed.

 

[X_Killer]

As You do not read, I repeat the article.

Despite recent reports that the two Western MRCBF competitors could operate from INS Vikramaditya in addition to the Indian Navy’s future carriers, this is simply not possible. The converted Soviet-era ‘aircraft carrying cruiser’ has two aircraft elevators that are located within the flight deck, instead of on the deck-edges, and both are too small to accommodate either the Super Hornet or the Rafale. The larger forward lift, beside the carrier’s superstructure, is 18.8 x 9.9 metres, while the Super Hornet’s wings fold to just under 10 metres and the Rafale’s wings, slightly less than 11 metres wide, do not fold at all. The aft lift is narrower, with an 8.6-metre width that is barely able to fit the MiG-29K’s 7.5-metre folded span. The Naval LCA, with a wingspan of a little over eight metres, would certainly have fit the forward lift if not the aft one – the Navy prefers for aircraft carrier elevators to be sufficiently larger than the aircraft they will carry for ease of aircraft handling and movement.
The real ‘show stopper’ for the entire MRCBF requirement, however, is the configuration of IAC-1. Unlike Vikramaditya, and like most contemporary carriers, the aircraft lifts on IAC-1 are positioned on the starboard edge of the deck allowing longer aircraft to ‘hang out’ over the water with only their landing gear on the platform. But because the carrier was designed around an air wing of MiG-29Ks and Naval LCAs, the lifts were sized for wingspans no larger than eight metres. 10 x 14 metres, to be precise. While MiG-29Ks and N-LCAs can fit on these lifts with parts of their noses or empennages hanging over the edges, the Super Hornet and Rafale once again cannot.

So no, the folding wings of the Super Hornet are about 10 meters wide.
You claim that this will fit in an 8,6 m wide elevator.

My guess is that You invented the idea that Dassault can create folding wings for the Rafale
in a few months. You are pretty careless with facts.

You also reject articles in India as Hot Air, while you make claim after claim without any basis.
Published a link where IAF announced the possible replacement of FGFA with Rafale.
Much more meat than anything you dream up.

F/A-18 is only 8.38 m with folded wings, rest you can calculate whether it can fit on 8.6m elevator ramp or not.

F/A-18 C/D external dimesions

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-18-specs.htm

further modification can be made on user request..

No india only has 4 tejas now. and will have 2 more this year. i confirm this from other defence forum. so no 8 per year is not true. only 4 per year is happening.

IAF got its 5 SP variants and overall 21 air frames are airborne as of now

they are saying FOC next year since 2010. it is 7 years still no FOC. next year is not coming.

you will feel the heat as LCA got its FOC

I am expert on this things.

expert with Zero aviation knowledge.

because chinese make evrything in blocks. it is constantly upgrading planes. tejas is not like this. so please don't compare. also remember there are hundres and hundreds JF17 flying with pakistani air force but only 4 in indian air force. so please don't compare great chinese planes with pethetic indian tejas.

LOL, blind believer.
and a False Flagger too.

all trials. not final configuration. weapons trials are failing so no FOC. or something big wrong with tejas.

so in short tejas is not flyworthy for airforce. tejas is only face saving project of india. so this is why india buying rafale.

FOC is delayed due to aerial trials of Gsh-23 and IFR.
And don't mix-up rafale and tejas. both belong to different categories.

you are speaking with expert in this filed.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

F/A-18 is only 8.38 m with folded wings, rest you can calculate whether it can fit on 8.6m elevator ramp or not.

F/A-18 C/D external dimesions
View attachment 421495

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-18-specs.htm

further modification can be made on user request..


IAF got its 5 SP variants and overall 21 air frames are airborne as of now

you will feel the heat as LCA got its FOC

expert with Zero aviation knowledge.

LOL, blind believer.
and a False Flagger too.

FOC is delayed due to aerial trials of Gsh-23 and IFR.
And don't mix-up rafale and tejas. both belong to different categories.

And India is offered a derivative of the F/A-18E (or F) Super Hornet.
You are either incompetent of dishonest (or both)

How are You going to fit a 9,32 meters wide aircraft in an 8,6 meter wide elevator?

 

[X_Killer]

How are You going to fit a 9,32 meters wide aircraft in an 8,6 meter wide elevator?

The lifts on Vikky are 18.91x8.65 and 18.91x9.96m. The lifts on IAC-1 are 14x10m.
Now You must recalculate your dimensions again...

also you have to know that rear lift is only used to for helicopter and ammunition lifting.

More over , MRCBFs are intended for IAC-1

Also you must go through the following points in Dassault proposal for MRCBF

1. IN Rafale-M Proposal has seen an offering of massive Indian specific customizations and a part of it is towards integration of Rafale M in existing carriers as well
2. IN Rafale M deal in the hindsight is also a bit costly due to customizations as mentioned above, weapon sets and it does not carry any maintenance package
3. The absence of Maintenance package indicates the fact the package will be signed later with a LOCAL entity.
4. The cover note (signed by Trappier) and presentations talks about the commanality with IAF Rafales and Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited in a position to meet all opex and service requirements.

Also, As I said before (I think you missed this line)

further modification can be made on user request..

 

[ejaz007]

India to announce road map for single-engine fighter program
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi   14 hours ago

NEW DELHI — To accelerate the Make in India initiative under the strategic partnership model, the ruling National Democratic Alliance will formally issue a request for information next month to Lockheed Martin of the U.S. and Saab of Sweden to manufacture single-engine fighters in collaboration with a private company in the India.

The Ministry of Defence will float a request for information, or RFI, to Lockheed Martin for its F-16 Block 70 and Saab for its Gripen E next month, a senior MoD official said.

Under the new strategic partnership, or SP, model the two companies will be asked to submit offers of the single-engine fighters’ air power capabilities, the offer for India-specific technology transfer, indigenous solutions for the program and the offer for building an ecosystem for the program in the country, said a senior Indian Air force official.

“We have chosen both F-16 Block 70 and Gripen E because both single-engine fighters are fully upgraded, fully tested and are in full use,” the IAF official added.

Both Lockheed Martin and Saab will be given three months to respond to the RFI, which will then be evaluated by an IAF expert committee and the final selection will be made early next year, the IAF official added.

Likewise, an expression of interest, or EOI, will be issued to domestic companies in the next three to four months, who will, in turn, tie-up with overseas original equipment manufacturers, or OEMs, to build around 120 single engine fighters, initially costing around $18 billion under the strategic partnership model, an MoD official noted.

India’s ruling NDA government unveiled the SP policy in May, which allows major private defense companies to be nominated as entities to manufacture major defense platforms in partnership with OEMs.

Under this policy, nominated private entities will build submarines, helicopters, single-engine fighters and armored vehicles and battle tanks in India in the next 20 years.

Sign up for our Daily News Roundup - The top Defense News stories of the day

An MoD official explained, “This is a very important and complex program, and the government, therefore, will have to prepare a full proof policy so that it moves forward without any glitches and cost overruns, keeping in mind that the Indian Air Force gets the latest single-engine fighters for the next 30 to 35 years.”

We aim to ink the contract in the next three to four years and will ensure that India-specific single-engine fighter will start to be produced in the country by a private company in the next eight years, he added.

After evaluation of the EOI offer from private companies, the MoD will select two or three private players to build single-engine fighters in India.

A request of proposal or tender will be issued in the next 16 months to the selected private player who will, in turn, will tie-up with selected foreign OEMs to manufacture this fighter in India.

Both Indian players and foreign OEMs will be free to forge either a joint venture or equity partnership to execute this program in India.

A CEO of a private defense company who requested not to be named said: “This is indeed a very encouraging move by the government, because both private players and foreign OEMs were apprehensive about this program as no time frame was spelled out by the MoD.”

http://www.defensenews.com/air/2017...e-road-map-for-single-engine-fighter-program/