Majority of Europeans say China will overtake 'broken' US within decade

[FuturePAF]

China’s domestic market is already by far the biggest for any technological good so there is literally nothing the West can do to rob China of that engine.

The domestic market helps, but they want to be a world leader in key technologies that enable them to enter new markets; such as civilian aerospace, in a big way.

If they can develop a competitive engine, they can sell their passenger airliners and take significant market share from Boeing and Airbus.

they also want a parallel technology option for those countries that don’t want to play by Washington’s rules but also don’t want to compromise on quality. This would allow the Chinese to compete with the US when seeking contracts around the world.

At that point they wouldn’t have to compete on price alone, but more so on strategic alignment.

 

[tower9]

The domestic market helps, but they want to be a world leader in key technologies that enable them to enter new markets; such as civilian aerospace, in a big way.

If they can develop a competitive engine, they can sell their passenger airliners and take significant market share from Boeing and Airbus.

they also want a parallel technology option for those countries that don’t want to play by Washington’s rules but also don’t want to compromise on quality. This would allow the Chinese to compete with the US when seeking contracts around the world.

At that point they wouldn’t have to compete on price alone, but more so on strategic alignment.

True. I guess we will see.

 

[Mk-313]

China’s domestic market is already by far the biggest for any technological good so there is literally nothing the West can do to rob China of that engine.

in aggregate yes, in per capita basis not yet. when you have 1.4 billion people then even a $100/person for example of consumption adds up to alot. but it still is $100/person.

if you have 2 houses. 200 people live in 1 house and they all make $1/month. in the second house you have 1 person living who makes $100

in aggregates $200 is a bigger number. but when you see the reality of it the second house is richer even with $100

China has already surpassed the US in probably half of the most critical technological fields. Although the US is still dominant in many key technologies. But it’s already gotten too close for comfort hence the tech war.

No it hasnt, specially not half. but when you look at technology you wana look at everything holsitically and see who is ahead. cherry picking few technologies doesnt give the full picture.

 

[Mk-313]

Becoming a superpower doesn’t happen overnight. I am pretty sure China will check off most of those boxes in 20 to 30 years. Btw during the 2008 crisis, China’s gdp was only at 30% of the US, now it’s 75%.

also China is already the worlds largest market for most goods.Ppp wise it is already by far the biggest economy.

ppp is the worst metric to calculate anything when ur talking about internationally. ppp is helpful when you are trying to calculate value domestically. e.g for $1 how much more i can buy in my country vs U.S. but when you are trading at international level and buying oil for example. your cant say but a $1 is worth more in our country so give us more oil for that dollar.


the 2008 crisis wiped off $5 trillion dollar off of US and yet it still managed to stay ahead. and that resiliency is an attribute of a developed economy. thats what china needs to be at. because even though you are only gona grow max 3% as a developed economy you trade that up by having a solid rock economy. vs being a developing economy with a 5-10% growth rate but being volatile

 

[Itachi]

historically multiple power went at it alone. We saw what happened to them..we saw wha happened to japan, germany, even russia, which never really had good allies just annexed countries

the real power that USA has is from it allies

You just saw what I have been saying all along...China is no ally of Pakistan. The Chinese you quote have said so himself. And it's not the first time he's said it either.

@Itachi whatever happens between the PRC and Taiwan, you can rest assured that the ummah will still be bombed by America and Russia, abused by wealthy Arab crypto-atheists, manipulated by Turkey, and "re-educated" by China. You're going to remain at the bottom - how do you feel about that?

Don't worry about the Ummah. It's doing great and will continue to do great. Your kind of the other hand will be extinct as soon as nukes start flying.

 

[tower9]

ppp is the worst metric to calculate anything when ur talking about internationally. ppp is helpful when you are trying to calculate value domestically. e.g for $1 how much more i can buy in my country vs U.S. but when you are trading at international level and buying oil for example. your cant say but a $1 is worth more in our country so give us more oil for that dollar.


the 2008 crisis wiped off $5 trillion dollar off of US and yet it still managed to stay ahead. and that resiliency is an attribute of a developed economy. thats what china needs to be at. because even though you are only gona grow max 3% as a developed economy you trade that up by having a solid rock economy. vs being a developing economy with a 5-10% growth rate but being volatile

The crisis didn't wipe out $5 trillion. The US was in recession for a year and a half and started growing again, albeit growth never passed 2-3%.

Many parts of China with a total population surpassing the US can be considered a developed country nowadays. You'd probably be shocked if you visited. Anyways, China will get there.

in aggregate yes, in per capita basis not yet. when you have 1.4 billion people then even a $100/person for example of consumption adds up to alot. but it still is $100/person.

if you have 2 houses. 200 people live in 1 house and they all make $1/month. in the second house you have 1 person living who makes $100

in aggregates $200 is a bigger number. but when you see the reality of it the second house is richer even with $100


No it hasnt, specially not half. but when you look at technology you wana look at everything holsitically and see who is ahead. cherry picking few technologies doesnt give the full picture.

Your information is very outdated and inaccurate. I don't think you realize just how advanced and wealthy China has already become.

 

[Mk-313]

The crisis didn't wipe out $5 trillion. The US was in recession for a year and a half and started growing again, albeit growth never passed 2-3%.

it did. markets lost around $6 trillion. thats the one i remember

America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008

www.businessinsider.com

and developed economies grow at 2-3% at normal pace.

Many parts of China with a total population surpassing the US can be considered a developed country nowadays. You'd probably be shocked if you visited. Anyways, China will get there.

Dude, if i started cherry picking out just silicon valley china will look 100 years behind in terms of wealth and technology there. but you look at countries as a whole the rural and urban combined

Your information is very outdated and inaccurate. I don't think you realize just how advanced and wealthy China has already become.

if you consider my info outdated then you ought to provide your evidence and your information to be accurate otherwise it just looks you have nothing to say. if something is inaccurate provide the accurate its another if its just something you don't like to hear.

i gave u an example of how markets work. china's GDP/capita is around $9k (2019 numbers) and U.S's is $68k /person (2019). and that tells you the difference of the productivity and who has more consumption power. who has more money to spend and who will the markets look more towards to attract

 

[tower9]

it did. markets lost around $6 trillion. thats the one i remember

America Lost $10.2 Trillion In 2008

www.businessinsider.com

and developed economies grow at 2-3% at normal pace.




Dude, if i started cherry picking out just silicon valley china will look 100 years behind in terms of wealth and technology there. but you look at countries as a whole the rural and urban combined



if you consider my info outdated then you ought to provide your evidence and your information to be accurate otherwise it just looks you have nothing to say. if something is inaccurate provide the accurate its another if its just something you don't like to hear.

i gave u an example of how markets work. china's GDP/capita is around $9k (2019 numbers) and U.S's is $68k /person (2019). and that tells you the difference of the productivity and who has more consumption power. who has more money to spend and who will the markets look more towards to attract

No, I am telling you, your perceptions and information is very much outdated. Yes, on a per capita nominal basis, China seems like it is much poorer, but the US per capita figures are very high because the US has the power to keep printing dollars. China's per capita net wealth is much closer and that's probably an accurate way to analyze the actual development standard of a country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...Countries_by_mean_wealth_per_adult_(2019).png

Also China is far more developed than most countries at its level of gdp per capita. Just visit China and visit Mexico, I have, they are in two different leagues.

China is ahead of the US in 5G technologies, infrastructure, many AI fields, many renewable energy fields, super computers, quantum communications, facial recognition, cashless payments and those are just the things I can think of from the top of my head. That really just came along in the last 3-5 years. That is how fast it is developing.

BTW China's GDP is now $15.4 trillion. Just passed $100 trillion yuan.

 

[Mk-313]

but the US per capita figures are very high because the US has the power to keep printing dollars

that tells me you know very little about macro economics and how gdp and everything is calculated and how money printing even works. every economy prints money and every economy needs to do it every year because gdp grows. otherwise deflation occurs. china prints yuan when it wants to and U.S prints dollars when it wants to. but there is only a certain limit and certain amount you can print before your currency starts losing value. U.S wouldnt have $21 trillion of debt if it could just print money to pay it off.

Yes its true U.S prints more currency than other countries and thats because the entire world uses US dollars to exchange goods so it needs to print enough to have enough dollars for the whole world while most economies mostly require only domestic use of their currency.

China is ahead of the US in 5G technologies, infrastructure, many AI fields, many renewable energy fields, super computers, quantum communications, facial recognition, cashless payments and those are just the things I can think of from the top of my head. That really just came along in the last 3-5 years. That is how fast it is developing.

5G is the only place where china holds more patent.

------
Quantum not even close. IBM built a quantum computer, google built a quantum circuit and china has yet to do either. there were some news where a chinese scientist said ours is 20,000 times faster but later corrected that my statement was mistaken. however china is ahead in quantum communication which US does not want to invest in

"I think that China is ahead of the US right now in quantum communications, simply because they decided to invest a lot in that area while the US decided not to. I think that the US retains a strong lead in quantum computation with other important centers being Canada, the UK, the EU, Australia, Singapore, Israel." -Director of quantum information center

Quantum USA Vs. Quantum China: The World's Most Important Technology Race

Analyst in-residence Paul Smith-Goodson takes a look at the quantum race between the United States and China.

www.forbes.com

----------

Supercomputers. US has the 1st and 2nd fastest operational supercomputers in the world. japan debuted 1 in 2020 which is claimed to be the fastest but is not going to be operational till 2021 so we wont know till then.

out of top 10 U.S has 4 fastest super computers. china has 2

TOP500 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

----------
US is ahead in A.I to the point that china is investing in U.S AI companies to try to match and beat us

"On an absolute basis, the United States led in AI research (7.6 points), followed by the European Union (3.8 points) and China (3.6 points)..."

Who Is Winning the AI Race: China, the EU or the United States?

Summary Many nations are racing to achieve a global innovation advantage in artificial intelligence (AI) because they understand that AI is a foundational technology that can boost competitiveness, increase productivity, protect national security, and help solve societal challenges. This report com

datainnovation.org

and i think of dozens of things U.S is way ahead of china. there is no doubt china is developing fast and most likely end up a competitive rival to the U.S

 

[ziaulislam]

You just saw what I have been saying all along...China is no ally of Pakistan. The Chinese you quote have said so himself. And it's not the first time he's said it either.


Don't worry about the Ummah. It's doing great and will continue to do great. Your kind of the other hand will be extinct as soon as nukes start flying.

Well we should be ready for the day when that happens
China one day might see more benefits in with allying with india.

We need to therefore diversify and never choose sides

We need to focus on africa and latin america..build strong economic and people to people relationship while keeping our ties with arabs ans turks

Whether chinese agree or not, there are two intersting things
1. First, china truely lacks good allies, basically it has none, a day might come when this will be its downfall
2. China population will grow old and shrink. This in a world still driven by manpower will be any country downfall

Europe and usa will compensate with immigration but what will china and japan do

 

[beijingwalker]

Well we should be ready for the day when that happens
China one day might see more benefits in with allying with india.

We need to therefore diversify and never choose sides

We need to focus on africa and latin america..build strong economic and people to people relationship while keeping our ties with arabs ans turks

Whether chinese agree or not, there are two intersting things
1. First, china truely lacks good allies, basically it has none, a day might come when this will be its downfall
2. China population will grow old and shrink. This in a world still driven by manpower will be any country downfall

Europe and usa will compensate with immigration but what will china and japan do

US does have many "allies" and China doesn't have any for the past 40 years, and what happened in China and US in the past 40 years vividly showed how useful allies are.
China prefers friends and business partners.

 

[ziaulislam]

US does have many "allies" and China doesn't have any for the past 40 years, and what happened in China and US in the past 40 years vividly showed how useful allies are.
China prefers friends and business partners.

USA doing pretty fine despite being involved in several wars

It is fed up of wars and is looking towards massive infrastructure spending

USA is and will remain super power

I dont know what you mean by your statement

Future looks more bleak for china then USA..
USA will print notes & chinese will back it

New world order

 

[beijingwalker]

USA doing pretty fine despite being involved in several wars

It is fed up of wars and is looking towards massive infrastructure spending

USA is and will remain super power

I dont know what you mean by your statement

Future looks more bleak for china then USA..
USA will print notes & chinese will back it

New world order

Ok, and it's ok with us if the same development trajectory of China and US goes unchanged for next 40 years.

 

[tower9]

that tells me you know very little about macro economics and how gdp and everything is calculated and how money printing even works. every economy prints money and every economy needs to do it every year because gdp grows. otherwise deflation occurs. china prints yuan when it wants to and U.S prints dollars when it wants to. but there is only a certain limit and certain amount you can print before your currency starts losing value. U.S wouldnt have $21 trillion of debt if it could just print money to pay it off.

Yes its true U.S prints more currency than other countries and thats because the entire world uses US dollars to exchange goods so it needs to print enough to have enough dollars for the whole world while most economies mostly require only domestic use of their currency.




5G is the only place where china holds more patent.

------
Quantum not even close. IBM built a quantum computer, google built a quantum circuit and china has yet to do either. there were some news where a chinese scientist said ours is 20,000 times faster but later corrected that my statement was mistaken. however china is ahead in quantum communication which US does not want to invest in

"I think that China is ahead of the US right now in quantum communications, simply because they decided to invest a lot in that area while the US decided not to. I think that the US retains a strong lead in quantum computation with other important centers being Canada, the UK, the EU, Australia, Singapore, Israel." -Director of quantum information center

Quantum USA Vs. Quantum China: The World's Most Important Technology Race

Analyst in-residence Paul Smith-Goodson takes a look at the quantum race between the United States and China.

www.forbes.com

----------

Supercomputers. US has the 1st and 2nd fastest operational supercomputers in the world. japan debuted 1 in 2020 which is claimed to be the fastest but is not going to be operational till 2021 so we wont know till then.

out of top 10 U.S has 4 fastest super computers. china has 2

TOP500 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

----------
US is ahead in A.I to the point that china is investing in U.S AI companies to try to match and beat us

"On an absolute basis, the United States led in AI research (7.6 points), followed by the European Union (3.8 points) and China (3.6 points)..."

Who Is Winning the AI Race: China, the EU or the United States?

Summary Many nations are racing to achieve a global innovation advantage in artificial intelligence (AI) because they understand that AI is a foundational technology that can boost competitiveness, increase productivity, protect national security, and help solve societal challenges. This report com

datainnovation.org

and i think of dozens of things U.S is way ahead of china. there is no doubt china is developing fast and most likely end up a competitive rival to the U.S

I don't think we are disagreeing that much. I never said China was ahead of the US overall, but I said they have become ahead in a significant amount of key areas.

As far as money printing, I think both you and I know that the USD's place as a reserve currency gives it enormous leverage to print money with abandon despite never being able to balance a budget. In comparison, China is the world's largest creditor nation and the US is the world's largest debtor nation. That is a huge fundamental difference when we are discussing the financial health of both countries. Economic gravity always shifts towards those who are creditors.

I said China is ahead in quantum communications, which is true. As far as quantum computing, I think the field is young and it is unclear which country is ahead at this time. Both countries have made major breakthroughs but neither have produced a final product. https://www.livescience.com/china-quantum-supremacy.html

As far as super computers, I am not sure if you know this but because of the tech war, China has stopped reporting on the efficacies of its super computers as to not alarm the US of its progress. You can call it sneaky, but it is what it is. The word is though that China is ahead and is working on 3 exascale computers at an earlier timeline than the US. BTW 312 of the top 500 systems are now Chinese. Just 10 years ago, China's presence on that list was negligible. This just points to how exponentially fast China's rise is.

China leads rest of the world in superfast computers

Chinese manufacturers continue to dominate the list of makers of the world's fastest supercomputers in terms of the number of systems, according to Top500, an authoritative ranking on supercomputers globally.

global.chinadaily.com.cn

Again, the US still retains the lead overall because of a massive head start. But China is rapidly climbing up the charts and at this point should be considered a peer competitor.

 

[Itachi]

Well we should be ready for the day when that happens
China one day might see more benefits in with allying with india.

Exactly.....once India pacifies. China will gain a lot more from trading with India or at least on par with Pakistan.

No way is China going to stand up for Pakistan then.