Major Changes Ahead on JF-17 Block-3

[barbarosa]

Hi,

Basically any late model aircraft with the most recent electronic warfare package---sesnor suite---aesa radar would be in the 4.5 gen.

Sir how will its late model ? if you have any picture or other source please.

If all qualities of 4.5 generation air craft will exist in the jf 17 then why will it not 4.5 G aircraft?

 

[MastanKhan]

we cant call jf 17 a true 4.5 gen if block 3 don't have full FBW. as of now i don't think paf has any plans to introduce full FBW in thunder as it will raise 17's cost.

Hi,

So---can you call a eurofighter a true 4.5 gen as it does not have an aesa---.

How about an F 16---blk 52 without aesa---or irst.

 

[barbarosa]

Please tell me one that what are the qualities of 4.5 G aircraft?

 

[HRK]

Please tell me one that what are the qualities of 4.5 G aircraft?

 

[barbarosa]

View attachment 285234

Tank you Sir

 

[barbarosa]

The model of jf 17 block 3 should awesome in looking, because block 2 model is gentle in my view .

 

[HAIDER]

Need better engine,better design and need more hardpoint for bomber role. Is it LCA or Interceptor or both ?

 

[CHI RULES]

RAM coatings alongwith ir/heat supression sytems in engines may be used to further decrease RCS and detection.
India has already applied such systems on it's old jets. It is my assumption that 4.5th gen fighters with almost identical gadgetry to 5gen fighters shall be able to challenge them if in capable hands.

RAM coatings alongwith ir/heat supression sytems in engines may be used to further decrease RCS and detection.
India has already applied such systems on it's old jets. It is my assumption that 4.5th gen fighters with almost identical gadgetry to 5gen fighters shall be able to challenge them if in capable hands.

 

[Atlanticore]

Indeed something is cooking in PAC. I guess Block-3 will have Dual Seat Cockpit, more hard points to integrate advanced Targeting Pods, no changes in Air Frame and possibly Chinese AESA radar. It was reported in past that Pakistan is in talks with Italian company for advanced avionics. So, we can say that Block-III will most probably have Vixen 1000E Radar.

 

[Viper0011.]

Indeed something is cooking in PAC. I guess Block-3 will have Dual Seat Cockpit, more hard points to integrate advanced Targeting Pods, no changes in Air Frame and possibly Chinese AESA radar. It was reported in past that Pakistan is in talks with Italian company for advanced avionics. So, we can say that Block-III will most probably have Vixen 1000E Radar.

If I was the strategist for the PAF's, I'd have acquired J-10C model with TOT (even with limited avionics TOT as it does contain higher end Chinese AESA and other electronics, that are on par (or 80% capable)) with French equipment. And I'd make that JFT block III altogether.

That one time investment takes you out of the "light weight" category. And you go directly into a Rafale / EFT league or very close to it. Not to mention higher payloads and more advanced tech. You could create a future variant of this FC-20 and turn that into a Stealthy platform. In other words, having a credible platform like that, will leave Pakistan in the current air-frame and aircraft design and development levels around the world. From this point on, you can further develop the aircraft into newer models, versions, etc and compete directly at the level of EFT / Rafales, etc!! That's a serious advancement of like 10 years worth of R&D if Pakistan was to do it on her own and with good many billions USD's!!

 

[Blue Marlin]

If I was the strategist for the PAF's, I'd have acquired J-10C model with TOT (even with limited avionics TOT as it does contain higher end Chinese AESA and other electronics, that are on par (or 80% capable) or the French equipment. And make that JFT block III altogether. That one time investment takes you out of the "light weight" category. And you go directly into a Rafale / EFT league or very close to it. Not to mention higher payloads and more advanced tech. You could create a future variant of this FC-20 and turn that into a Stealthy platform. In other words, having a credible platform like that, will leave Pakistan in the current air-frame and aircraft design and development levels around the world. From this point on, you can further develop the aircraft into newer models, versions, etc.

later varients of the jf-17 will have avionics and sensors of the j10b/c series. why on earth would you want to buy the j10 for when you can have its best bits on your own jet. the al 31 engine is a nightmare as compared to the rd93. im not mentioning the chinese engine as its not mature enough to talk about.

true the j10 is in the came class as the typhoon and the rafale, but why would pakistan want it? last time i checked pakistan is not going to war tommorow or any time soon. and they are in the process of negoatiating for "more advanced" f16's from the usa. the pakistanis love the f16 its a good jet, and it boosts the publics morale.
can you imagine how much it would cost to have its own maintainance/service facility? and not to mention operational costs and training of the ground crew and the pliots.

 

[Viper0011.]

later varients of the jf-17 will have avionics and sensors of the j10b/c series. why on earth would you want to buy the j10 for when you can have its best bits on your own jet. the al 31 engine is a nightmare as compared to the rd93. im not mentioning the chinese engine as its not mature enough to talk about.

true the j10 is in the came class as the typhoon and the rafale, but why would pakistan want it? last time i checked pakistan is not going to war tommorow or any time soon. and they are in the process of negoatiating for "more advanced" f16's from the usa. the pakistanis love the f16 its a good jet, and it boosts the publics morale.
can you imagine how much it would cost to have its own maintainance/service facility? and not to mention operational costs and training of the ground crew and the pliots.

1) Later blocks of JFT having the same avoinics isn't disputed. That's almost a known reality. But these avionics don't change the "class" of this jet. The PAF's main adversary is the IAF and the IAF is modernizing her fleet with heavies day in, day out. So the PAF, although is very happy with the JFT and all, can seriously use the FC-20's capability and once and for all. bridge that serious gap. They'll go from JFT being a "light weight fighter" to a "advanced medium, multi-role platform" which would do it for the PAF for decades to come. And they can produce various advanced versions of this jet as times change.

The beauty is that the FC-20 will not only bridge the gap that exists in the PAF's squadrons, it'll allow them to independently form their OWN high-lo tier, without the issue of the Indian lobby or sanctions. FC-20 and the JFT Block II / III are a great hi-lo combo. Add supplemental F-16's block 52/60's, you've got a seriously capable air-force and dealing with the Rafale's, Mig-29 SMT's or the SU-30's won't be a huge challenge. This last sentence ALONE is why Pakistan SHOULD want it.

2) Engines aren't an issue. The Chinese engines, just by looking at the pictures, show me they are copying Western tech. So their engine may not be as durable and efficient as the GE or PW one's, but if they achieve 80-85% of the capability, that's massive. I think their engine design shows they have or soon will be around 80% of PW or GE 404 level. So the engine issue is taken care of I'd guess.

3) For Pakistan, all these things are much beneficial as the Chinese have spent billions in R&D and years in taking pains. Pakistan gets an end product at a much nicer rate and can then build up her industry from today on-wards, without wasting billions on R&D and years of waste!!

 

[Blue Marlin]

1) Later blocks of JFT having the same avoinics isn't disputed. That's almost a known reality. But these avionics don't change the "class" of this jet. The PAF's main adversary is the IAF and the IAF is modernizing her fleet with heavies day in, day out. So the PAF, although is very happy with the JFT and all, can seriously use the FC-20's capability and once and for all. bridge that serious gap. They'll go from JFT being a "light weight fighter" to a "advanced medium, multi-role platform" which would do it for the PAF for decades to come. And they can produce various advanced versions of this jet as times change.

The beauty is that the FC-20 will not only bridge the gap that exists in the PAF's squadrons, it'll allow them to independently form their OWN high-lo tier, without the issue of the Indian lobby or sanctions. FC-20 and the JFT Block II / III are a great hi-lo combo. Add supplemental F-16's block 52/60's, you've got a seriously capable air-force and dealing with the Rafale's, Mig-29 SMT's or the SU-30's won't be a huge challenge. This last sentence ALONE is why Pakistan SHOULD want it.

2) Engines aren't an issue. The Chinese engines, just by looking at the pictures, show me they are copying Western tech. So their engine may not be as durable and efficient as the GE or PW one's, but if they achieve 80-85% of the capability, that's massive. I think their engine design shows they have or soon will. So the engine issue is taken care of.

3) For Pakistan, all these things are much beneficial as the Chinese have spent billions in R&D and taking pains. Pakistan gets an end product at a much nicer rate and can then build up her industry from today onwards.

im sorry but near enough all of what you said holds no weight and is mearly your own opinion.
i would respond to each of your arguements but i cba talking to kbw's right now.
but not to leave you hanging. lockheed f16 production is now only reliant on export orders and they only have orders for 65 as of 11/01/16 and is loocking for new orders to keep the line open for as long as possible. now i know for a fact the defence lobby is stronger than the indian lobby so that alone is enough to secure the order and to reinforce that the usa does not want to lose its influece in pakistan and the region so that to would be in their favour. and its not like the f16 is being rammed down pakistan throat. they like the f16 as mentioned before.

some of what i said is also reflected below
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?

 

[Viper0011.]

im sorry but near enough all of what you said holds no weight and is mearly your own opinion.
i would respond to each of your arguements but i cba talking to kbw's right now.
but not to leave you hanging. lockheed f16 production is now only reliant on export orders and they only have orders for 65 as of 11/01/16 and is loocking for new orders to keep the line open for as long as possible. now i know for a fact the defence lobby is stronger than the indian lobby so that alone is enough to secure the order and to reinforce that the usa does not want to lose its influece in pakistan and the region so that to would be in their favour. and its not like the f16 is being rammed down pakistan throat. they like the f16 as mentioned before.

some of what i said is also reflected below
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?

Your post has NO relevance to my previous post!!!! I don't even know how to understand your post as it doesn't address anything from my post.

The discussion you and I were having, was WHY Pakistan should consider taking FC-20 as a JFT Block IV and using it in the PAF (my take is, it'll give a massive jump to the Pakistani aviation industry and will make them capable of producing Rafale and EFT class fighters, and will make them totally independent). Plus they can then form their own high-lo combo, FC-20 (high) and JFT(low). F-16's J-11's or whatever else they have, will only supplement it.

Your answer has nothing pertinent to the discussion on hand. Respond back with relevant details. I don't like to waste time as I am super busy.

 

[Quwa]

The only scenario in which the PAF would get J-10B/C is if the F-16 route is firmly closed, meaning, no new planes and no cache of spare parts. In this case, the PAF might pick up 36-40 J-10s as a means to fill in the medium weight fighter gap.

Some might consider the Su-35 as a worthwhile alternative, but I don't think the Su-35 could fill in for the F-16; the Flanker isn't the kind of jet you could scramble. Rather, it is there to mount offensives, provide cover for strike aircraft and engage in long-range patrol.

The Su-35 is a power projection tool, not your first line of aerial defence, which is what the F-16 is to the PAF today (with the JF-17 Block-III joining in the future).

If not just 2 squadrons (36) of new F-16s, then yes, we can probably look forward to J-10B/C.