Made-in-Pakistan JF-17 fighter goes global, desi Tejas yet to take off

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Too many people with absolutely 0 knowledge on defence are posting nowadays on pdf,,,pity.
This forum has become just a means of chatting and trolling on politics.

With the master troll back online

 

[Manas]

And more thing an aircrft like JF-17 would never make into IAF going by the tech standards IAF fancies in its fighter aircrafts .

One of the single biggest reason why Tejas has not been included in the IAF squds so far is for the fear in the top IAF brass that if Tejas induced in big numbers then IAF cant cry bitch at the MOD on the dwindling numbers of IAF squds and force it buy fancy stuff like Rafales in good 126s + then 70 + 70 more + + +

Now that Parikar is the MOD in charge and has given them the jolt in the IAF dreaming stuffer by buying only 36 Rafales and no more , i hope IAF learns its lesson and indigenize like the Indian navy in a big way . Then you will see Tejas-Is, IIs, IIIs ,IVs flying
and piling up IAF arsenal in the future .

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@The Sultan Erdogan

Pakistan's contribution to JF 17 is very well known

SO there is no point in repeating it

From our point of view JF 17 is NOT a threat to IAF

We would NOT take it ; Hypothetically if it is offered to us ; we would reject it

IAF's capabilities have NOT declined due to Tejas non availability

You can ask PAF and PLAAF to attack together

There is a lot of invaluable experience and knowledge that we have gained which will
help us in next 15 years

Aerospace development is a continuos process ; a long term process

All these hardships and difficulties will stand us in good stead

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

It's like saying India's project management of the MKI is superior. They're both some products made and tested by the matured partner.

Like be serious, Pakistan's whole military budget is like $6 billion, how much of that is given to R&D? Not even a billion? What industry does Pakistan even have? It's a joke. Everyone knows who's doing the work.

Tejas can be the Prithvi, Agni 1 in India's aerospace, the K4s+, Agni 5+, will come in time. India has the time, money, and a maturing industry to support it.

Well said . Tejas experience will yield gold for sure . With economic and technology sanctions we made it into a 4th gen fighter with technology flowing in with expansion of our economy we are better fighting world beater for sure

 

[he-man]

With the master troll back online

Oh,i am atleast an informed troll

 

[MilSpec]

Tejas is an embarrassment for us...... The worst part of it is, there seems to be no end for this embarrassment

But it is absolutely wrong to compare it with JF 17

Actually it is correct to compare LCA's failure to JF17's success. At the end of th day both are 4.5th gen LWFP.

And remember LCA is just a low end aircraft for air policing and their J 17 is their main stay
Any way they are pretending that they cant understand such stuff ,so we dont need to explain to them.

it's not , JF17 will replace thier aging fleet of F7's Mirage III/5's, their frontline strike platform will be F16's

 

[nair]

Actually it is correct to compare LCA's failure to JF17's success. At the end of th day both are 4.5th gen LWFP.

I wasnt talking about the capabilities of the aircrafts..... I was talking about the comparison the OP is making,

 

[MilSpec]

@The Sultan Erdogan

Pakistan's contribution to JF 17 is very well known

SO there is no point in repeating it

From our point of view JF 17 is NOT a threat to IAF

We would NOT take it ; Hypothetically if it is offered to us ; we would reject it

IAF's capabilities have NOT declined due to Tejas non availability

You can ask PAF and PLAAF to attack together

There is a lot of invaluable experience and knowledge that we have gained which will
help us in next 15 years

Aerospace development is a continuos process ; a long term process

All these hardships and difficulties will stand us in good stead

IMO JF17 or any added capability in the immediate threat of conflict is a threat. It doesn't matter if it fit's IAF requirements or not, the bottom line is JF17/FC1 is a potent system.

As far as IAF capabilities, it is absolutely dented due to non-availability of LCA tejas. We had 42 squdrans with 12 sqdns of FOC, BVR capable LCA mk2 at this date, IAF's capability would have been definitely better than what it is today.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Actually it is correct to compare LCA's failure to JF17's success. At the end of th day both are 4.5th gen LWFP.

I wasnt talking about the capabilities of the aircrafts..... I was talking about the comparison the OP is making,

Lets look at the positives...
If:
USA can manufacture 3 types of 4th gen aircraft. (F-15, F-16 & F-18)
Russia can manufacture 2 Types of 4th gen aircraft (Mig 29 & Su-30)
Europe can manufacture 3 Types of 4th gen aircraft (EFT, Gripen & Rafale)
China can manufacture 1 Type of 4th gen aircraft (J-10)
Then
India manufacturing Tejas is an achievement.
Pakistan manufacturing JF-17 is also an achievement.

Who helped them, how they attained this should be put aside and just live in the moment and be happy.

 

[SrNair]

Actually it is correct to compare LCA's failure to JF17's success. At the end of th day both are 4.5th gen LWFP.


it's not , JF17 will replace thier aging fleet of F7's Mirage III/5's, their frontline strike platform will be F16's

And we still have SU and Mig .
Additional order for 36 Rafale is also developing.
Capability wise I think they need to complete Block 3 for become an equal partner like tgat of LCA.

IAF have a lots of choices.But PAF choices are severly limited ,limited in such a way that they cant even afford J10.
Choices made IAF to follow a non.comprimising path.

 

[I M Sikander]

Because LCA is our baby .40 are already inducted and MK2 will be ready before the completion of 40.
But in your case ,you are rejoicing with a rejected Chinese stuff.
Carry on.

Typical tejas fan boy . carry on with your ego and ruin your iaf.

 

[DeathInvader]

JF-17 is a superior product and vastly more successful than any other military jet project of South Asia. Tejas is a failure.

Pakistan's program management and planning have been superior to India's inferior, and rather backward approach.

Pakistan exploited China's superior industrial knowledge/base to its own benefit, and produced a very potent platform for its air force with having complete access to all the technology, source codes, and weapon-integration of the fighter jet.

In modern world, you rely on specialization in global market.

East Asians learned it early on, and sky-rocketed.

Arab World is learning it now..

Indians also need to learn that making a jet own their own rather than collaboration was a stupid mistake.

Turkey started with collaboration, then transfer of technology for F-16s, then becoming a partner in F-35 program...only after all of decades of learning and hands-on experience, we are planning to go towards our indigenous fighter jet (which, again, will involve collaboration with top foreign companies/countries as well).

I am sorry i though you were being sarcastic but have you ever given a thought the Sino-Pak project is only making Pakistan use of what it is producing. I don't understand if JF-17 is as amazing as claimed then why isn't China using it in numbers? Also something intrigued me is the official name for JF-17 , Chengdu JF-17? Didn't they have any policy in making a JV approach? or it doesn't matter to them as they only assemble it there? I know you'll argue that the aircraft is amazing and it has it buys and it doesn't matter but think about it. A country that can't manufacture a car engine claims to manufacture a jet! or design a plane for itself when it doesn't even have a fully designed and manufactured road vehicle!
The plane claims it is potent, CLAIMS and it has never seen a fight!
Well all the best for your airplane while we built everything from scratch. 35 years wasn't just a plane. 35 years was the industry, infrastructure, skilled labor, engineers and technology set up for a plane. You think your policy and strategies were smart? No sir, you will be slave to the countries you partner with for your plane. What if China stops JF-17 project. How long do you think will take for Pakistan to clone and manufacture JF-17 in its entirety in Pakistan? Same goes for your future plane that you are so chest thumping about manufacturing under collaboration?

And for our needs? Its getn served for pretty good imported planes which if you ask me is same as collaboration as we licence manufacture them entirely in India. Even if Russia stops giving us parts we can fully overhaul or duplicate an entire plane. Think about it

 

[drunken-monke]

JF17 Thrust to weight ratio is 1.08 not 0.93.

Lets find the facts..
JF17
Aircraft weight, empty (kg)--- 6,586 kg
Aircraft weight, full fuel (kg)--- 08,886 kg
Engine (rd 93) thrust maximum (N)-- 81,402 (wet), 49.7 kN / 51.2 kN (DRY) (For WS 13 this would be 86.3 kn (wet) and 56.7 (dry) but reduced engine life.)
Aircraft weight, max take-off load (kg)-- 12,700
Total fuel weight (kg)- 2,300
T/W ratio (full fuel)--0.93

Now LCA

Aircraft weight, empty (kg)--- 6,560 kg
Aircraft weight, full fuel (kg)--- 9,080 kg
Engine (GE 404) thrust maximum (N)-- 84,000 (wet), 53.9 kN (DRY) (Govt. website says thrust is 889645 N or 20000 lbf)
Aircraft weight, max take-off load (kg)-- 13,300
Total fuel weight (kg)-2,458
T/W ratio (full fuel)--0.94..

The source you are quoting is Wikipedia and its reference is a YouTube video.. My source is government website..

Specifications | Tejas - India's Light Combat Aircraft

You can find that Max load of Tejas is 13300, about 600 kg more than JF 17 which has more internal fuel and wepons since emty weight is less than JF 17.. But then max engine power is 2500 N more than JF 17.. You need not be a rocket scientist to deduce facts from above specs...

 

[Echo_419]

It's like saying India's project management of the MKI is superior. They're both some products made and tested by the matured partner.

Like be serious, Pakistan's whole military budget is like $6 billion, how much of that is given to R&D? Not even a billion? What industry does Pakistan even have? It's a joke. Everyone knows who's doing the work.

Tejas can be the Prithvi, Agni 1 in India's aerospace, the K4s+, Agni 5+, will come in time. India has the time, money, and a maturing industry to support it.

Exactly Pakistanis don't have the capacity to compete with us

 

[Brahma Bull]

The exported ChiPak fighter will be named FC-1
Mark my words