Lt. Gen (R) Tariq Khan speaks

[salarsikander]

See post # 28.

Unrelated

 

[Dalit]

didnt they accept it in the end? how does any of what you said justify kidnappings and torture? arrests even after bail? army led reign of terror?

IK has continuously said that he has absolutely no issues with the military. It is the generals who have an issue with him. I absolutely believe him. What do the generals exactly have against IK? I think they didn't like his independent approach. The generals want control.

As for the people being put in jail etc. That is just cannon fodder for the generals. They can put people in jails all day long without any hesitation.

 

[Rank]

What you are seeing now is what you should have expected when you have an intelligence man as COAS.

in case, what do you think about Kiyani then?

 

[MajorMinor]

Intelligence is 90% "informants on the inside" and 10% luck. And that's EVERYWHERE. CIA, KGB, Mossad, RAW.. All those "technologies" being touted are just a show to keep public impressed. They don't really have any say in actual actions.

No one was ever caught because of a flying drone on recon missions, those are flown "after" someone somewhere sees something.

 

[Goenitz]

More on military reforms.

.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Meh, General's can choke on Nawaz's gangrened dick long after he's gone. Awam votes for immigration from this hellhole.

Secessio plebis - WikipediaWikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Secessio_plebis

 

[Oracle]

ye norm ha pori dunya ma corrupt logo ka ....

retire ho kar bhashan dete ha
jab khud position ma hote ha to corruption halal karte rehte

 

[blain2]

The other side of the story. Pakistani civilians are found to be disorganized and accepting of corruption. Those with party affiliations are found to be egotistical and corrupt on average. There is this itch to resort to LINKS to get things done irrespective of being right or wrong. And take a look at how many political parties have popped up by now. Who will fix this problem?

For those who have not read "Pakistan - A Hard Country" by Anatol Lieven, I highly encourage you all to do. In the book he argues that our clan/biradri/tribal systems trumps our nationalism as a nation. Meaning that the lowest common denominator is not the country, rather the giraeen next to us and his/her equivalent in other ethnicities that we have.

So they tried Islamization to bring all of the various people together with mixed success. Would the right solution be hyper-nationalism? I don't know. This is why party affiliations supersede the interests of the country.

I don't have any issues with as many parties being formed as people desire. I say the same for provinces etc. Decentralize the entire system, devolve the power to the very people who live with the problems on hand. If we do that then we have local solutions for the problems on hand instead of a Bilawal Zardari sitting in Larkana, asking his father what should be done with local bodies in Karachi. The whole system is set up for corruption, incompetence with myopic policies and thus we consistently fail as a nation.

 

[blain2]

The biggest problem right now is that the military has a narcissist psychopath as it's head.
For comparison, during the entire operation zarb e Azb 8000 armed terrorists were arrested.
During current operation zarb e PMLN , post 9th May, supported by Psycho COAS Asim Munir 10,000 unarmed men women and children have been arrested.
It gets even worse.
All the 8000 terrorists arrested during Zarb e Azb were given trial by courts and their bail was honoured and they were released. Almost all of them were released by courts .
Right now , none of the arrested were presented in courts, no bails granted were honoured.

They cannot afford to keep the demonstrators, and that too this many in jails for long. I think the purpose is to keep the die-hards out while the basic dismantling takes place.

Whatever is being done is definitely illegal. Unfortunately in our land, illegal measures are never unprecedented. Hope women and youth are released at the earliest.

Well said.

But it's more of a vicious cycle, bad COAS, bad politician, bad COAS, bad politician. How do you get a professional COAS? Just pray?

It has happened. Asif Nawaz, Wahid Kakar, Jehangir Karamat (and even Raheel Sharif) were examples of apolitical chiefs. You also have to remember that in the current crop of emerging senior leaders (Brigadiers etc.), they are seeing the utter destruction of confidence in their institution. I can hope that some are touching their ears and saying "never again/tauba" to themselves and perhaps when some of these very same officers and their cohort get into the GHQ, they can perhaps follow the path of the above mentioned chiefs instead of Bajwa and Asim Munir et-al.

So there is always hope and all it takes is one CoAS who can right the ship. What Asim Munir has clearly shown is that every CoAS is his own man. If people thought that he was a toothless cat, he has growled louder than Bajwa and the country has seen him do that. So just like Asim Munir is following a distinct path, a future CoAS can do the same albeit in an entirely different direction. However, instead of leaving things to chance, the suggestion to create more regional/combatant commands with 4 star officers etc. is the more practical way of decentralizing the power in a proper way.

 

[Sugarcane]

They are all same when in uniform, IQ of some improves once uniform is gone and they start thinking.

 

[NooriNuth]

They cannot afford to keep the demonstrators, and that too this many in jails for long. I think the purpose is to keep the die-hards out while the basic dismantling takes place.

Whatever is being done is definitely illegal. Unfortunately in our land, illegal measures are never unprecedented. Hope women and youth are released at the earliest.

It has happened. Asif Nawaz, Wahid Kakar, Jehangir Karamat (and even Raheel Sharif) were examples of apolitical chiefs. You also have to remember that in the current crop of emerging senior leaders (Brigadiers etc.), they are seeing the utter destruction of confidence in their institution. I can hope that some are touching their ears and saying "never again/tauba" to themselves and perhaps when some of these very same officers and their cohort get into the GHQ, they can perhaps follow the path of the above mentioned chiefs instead of Bajwa and Asim Munir et-al.

So there is always hope and all it takes is one CoAS who can right the ship. What Asim Munir has clearly shown is that every CoAS is his own man. If people thought that he was a toothless cat, he has growled louder than Bajwa and the country has seen him do that. So just like Asim Munir is following a distinct path, a future CoAS can do the same albeit in an entirely different direction. However, instead of leaving things to chance, the suggestion to create more regional/combatant commands with 4 star officers etc. is the more practical way of decentralizing the power in a proper way.

They may release the abducted, but the effects will be long lasting.
People were arrested and tortured, women raped. Family members who had no association with PTI also arrested, to insult and pressurise.
Nobody is going to forget this.

 

[blain2]

They may release the abducted, but the effects will be long lasting.
People were arrested and tortured, women raped. Family members who had no association with PTI also arrested, to insult and pressurise.
Nobody is going to forget this.

NN, I have yet to see a single incident of women being raped in custody. Not saying its an impossibility but do share links etc. if this is indeed the case. There is a lot of propaganda being wielded on both sides to build a narrative. We should always seek the truth. I am not saying excesses and extreme hardship is not being borne by PTI, but this talk of "rapes" is only from you.

Nobody should ever forget this because when we do have democracy, we should value it for it is worth.

 

[The Accountant]

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Nothing is completely done or written in stone yet.

Also, as we always say, if you want something really bad, you have to have the patience, the fight, the will to see it through.

Our problem is not getting to the state of "emancipation". It is what we do with it once we get it.

Post 1971, the opportunity with ZAB was lost. Post Zia, the opportunity with BB/NS was lost multiple times. Post Zardari, the opportunity was lost with IK/PTI. So our system cannot remain a repressive one like that of Egypt etc. It gives us opportunities to be free men and women with a voice of our own. But eventually when we do get the mandate of the people restored, what do our leaders do with that mandate? They fail us. This is not to say the military is any better. They fail us in governance too.

The conclusion is that our freedom of expression, will and to vote is something precious. When we get it, we have to hold all accountable and strive to make it work.

What leaders r u talking about? Zardari and nawaz ? They r just en extension of establishment

 

[Megg]

didnt they accept it in the end? how does any of what you said justify kidnappings and torture? arrests even after bail? army led reign of terror?

It's surprising people speak as if anyone expected the previously 'apolitical' 'neutral' military would come right to the forefront and be full on saddam/sissi on civilians! Who would have thought court orders would be openly defied, remember at the time vonc, the court decided the exact time of what was to be done! who would have thought those mighty courts would be helpless now. If things were done under legal framework, no one could have defeated pti, who would have thought the country would become full on lawless jungle inorder to defeat khan

 

[The Accountant]

NN, I have yet to see a single incident of women being raped in custody. Not saying its an impossibility but do share links etc. if this is indeed the case. There is a lot of propaganda being wielded on both sides to build a narrative. We should always seek the truth. I am not saying excesses and extreme hardship is not being borne by PTI, but this talk of "rapes" is only from you.r

Nobody should ever forget this because when we do have democracy, we should value it for it is worth.

I have seen a video where a policeman was showing his dick to womens arrested and were trying to get out of police van ...

He was threatening to rape them