Loss of an F16 vs Su30/Mirage 2000

[untitled]

While everyone here wants to know the truth about the claims made by the PAF and the IAF regarding the events of February 27th not many are discussing about the strategic implications associated if one side's claims are true or at least closer to the truth.

If PAF has indeed lost an F16 what more is it set to lose? How much does this hurt Pakistan's cause?

If indeed the IAF has lost a Su30 or any other aircraft other than the MiG21 and the ill fated Mi17, how much of a shock will it be to the Indian government in particular and the Indian people in general?

 

[Mahmood uz Zaman]

While everyone here wants to know the truth about the claims made by PAF and the IAF regarding the events of February 27th not many are discussing about the strategic implications associated if one side's claims are true or at least closer to the truth.

If PAF has indeed lost an F16 what more is it set to lose? How much does this hurt Pakistan's cause?

If indeed the IAF has lost a Su30 or any other aircraft other than the MiG21 and the ill fated Mi17, how much of a shock will it be to the Indian government in particular and the Indian people in general?

In this 3 day war that Pakistan won with no loss of aircraft and any pilots while India lost 4-5 aircrafts.
1-2 MiG 21
1 SU -30 MKI
1 IAF Hawk
1 MI 17 helicopter
While Mirage 2000 simply runaway like coward cows.

 

[Enigma SIG]

While everyone here wants to know the truth about the claims made by the PAF and the IAF regarding the events of February 27th not many are discussing about the strategic implications associated if one side's claims are true or at least closer to the truth.

If PAF has indeed lost an F16 what more is it set to lose? How much does this hurt Pakistan's cause?

If indeed the IAF has lost a Su30 or any other aircraft other than the MiG21 and the ill fated Mi17, how much of a shock will it be to the Indian government in particular and the Indian people in general?

Their airchiefs know it; the squadron flying the Su30 knows it, Russia knows it. A Su30 has been downed. Russians are in furor over the IAF's incompetence.

 

[Maxpane]

i think Paf shot down all who came to intercept . MKI , Mirrage and mig

 

[Hellfire]

Su-30MKI, I am still trying to find it and the pilot. Both do not seem to be on our inventory.

But I do recall very clearly Pakistan claiming 03 x Parachutes and then thread being started of shooting down of 01 x Mig 21 and 01 x Su 30 MKI. Then out of the blue of BVRAAM shooting down a Mi-17 100 odd kms away!

Apart from the fanboy posts, the only thing that comes to fore is as under:

1. 01 x Mig 21 Bison was indeed shot down. Already covered by me.
2. Multiple sources including information from wingman and airforce sources, on ground civilians who know the aircraft, confirmed to me that indeed a F-16 was shot down (I have tried to check and recheck, ATC records of the RT also confirm same, but still giving a margin for error).
3. The claim of PM IK of having 02 x IAF pilots revised to 01 and information that 01 x pilot critically injured in CMH, lends credence to air crew being in Pakistani side. This can not be possible that the air crew is in Pakistani airspace and the aircraft is in Indian side.
4. The AIM-120C, irrespective of denials and doubts, is designed to self destruct/explode in proximity to its intended target at the maximum range if it is unable to hit the target, hence, the distance being touted can be explained by the same. Contrails at that altitude are easy to follow and debris can be found quickly by estimating the area.
5. The claims by certain Pakistani handles (apparently) of F16 pilot being downed.

 

[Skyliner]

In this 3 day war that Pakistan won with no loss of aircraft and any pilots while India lost 4-5 aircrafts.
1-2 MiG 21
1 SU -30 MKI
1 IAF Hawk
1 MI 17 helicopter
While Mirage 2000 simply runaway like coward cows.

Where did you heard about Hawk?

 

[Hellfire]

@member.exe

That is the best I can sum up the situation.

In this 3 day war that Pakistan won with no loss of aircraft and any pilots while India lost 4-5 aircrafts.
1-2 MiG 21
1 SU -30 MKI
1 IAF Hawk
1 MI 17 helicopter
While Mirage 2000 simply runaway like coward cows.

Let me revise the list

1-2xMig 21
1xSu-30 MKI
1xHawk
1xMi-17IV
1xMi-17V5
1xALH mk ii
1 ALH mk iii
1xALH mk iv
1xCheetal
1xLancer
1xCheetah
1xChetak
1xMi-26
1xMi35
1xLCH
1xLCA Tejas
1xDo228
1xAn-32
1xAvro HS-748
1xC130
1xC17
1xMig-29
1xJaguar
1xMig-27UPG
1xMig29K
1xP8I
1xS3
1xSea King
1x IL-76
1xIL-78
1xChinook

Have I covered it all?

Where did you heard about Hawk?

Refer list posted by me, have revised it ....

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Su-30MKI, I am still trying to find it and the pilot. Both do not seem to be on our inventory.

But I do recall very clearly Pakistan claiming 03 x Parachutes and then thread being started of shooting down of 01 x Mig 21 and 01 x Su 30 MKI. Then out of the blue of BVRAAM shooting down a Mi-17 100 odd kms away!

Apart from the fanboy posts, the only thing that comes to fore is as under:

1. 01 x Mig 21 Bison was indeed shot down. Already covered by me.
2. Multiple sources including information from wingman and airforce sources, on ground civilians who know the aircraft, confirmed to me that indeed a F-16 was shot down (I have tried to check and recheck, ATC records of the RT also confirm same, but still giving a margin for error).
3. The claim of PM IK of having 02 x IAF pilots revised to 01 and information that 01 x pilot critically injured in CMH, lends credence to air crew being in Pakistani side. This can not be possible that the air crew is in Pakistani airspace and the aircraft is in Indian side.
4. The AIM-120C, irrespective of denials and doubts, is designed to self destruct/explode in proximity to its intended target at the maximum range if it is unable to hit the target, hence, the distance being touted can be explained by the same. Contrails at that altitude are easy to follow and debris can be found quickly by estimating the area.
5. The claims by certain Pakistani handles (apparently) of F16 pilot being downed.

For point 3,
If we have more than 1 pilots in custody, then there has to be a second downed aircraft.

 

[Hellfire]

For point 3,
If we have more than 1 pilots in custody, then there has to be a second downed aircraft.

You do not. The narrative you all have been pushing, of India not asking and we are not giving .. works on those who are fanboys.

Not here to prove you (not you personally) as bluffing.

Cheers.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

For point 3,
If we have more than 1 pilots in custody, then there has to be a second downed aircraft.

Actually the most mysterious part is Pakistan changing claim of 2 in custody to 1 in custody. I strongly believe we had 2 in custody but wreckage of only a single seater on our side (how the second pilot landed in Pak while his jet crashed in India is honestly difficult to explain).

But after Pak claiming 2 pilots in custody with wreckage of only 1 plane, India was left with two options;

1. Accept that 2 planes were shot and demand the second pilot.

2. Deny that 2 planes crashed and therefore demand release of only 1 pilot and sacrifice the other. This was the option of face saving at the cost of sacrificing the second pilot. India chose face saving and Pakistan welcomed that and said thank you, we'll keep the second pilot.

 

[Skyliner]

@member.exe

That is the best I can sum up the situation.




Let me revise the list

1-2xMig 21
1xSu-30 MKI
1xHawk
1xMi-17IV
1xMi-17V5
1xALH mk ii
1 ALH mk iii
1xALH mk iv
1xCheetal
1xLancer
1xCheetah
1xChetak
1xMi-26
1xMi35
1xLCH
1xLCA Tejas
1xDo228
1xAn-32
1xAvro HS-748
1xC130
1xC17
1xMig-29
1xJaguar
1xMig-27UPG
1xMig29K
1xP8I
1xS3
1xSea King
1x IL-76
1xIL-78
1xChinook

Have I covered it all?




Refer list posted by me, have revised it ....

Add one more to the list too.
1.3 Billion asses, saw them burning all day long on 27th Feb.

 

[Riz]

Friends stop creating new threads again & again... For you its 110% confirmed pak destroyed 2 indian JETs... 1 is ofcourse Mig21 and 2nd one is 111% confirmed its their Elephant . And regarding their F-16 claim its as lie if some one say modi is a Muslim .... Lol

 

[Hellfire]

Add one more to the list too.
1.3 Billion asses, saw them burning all day long on 27th Feb.

You are indeed blessed to make such insightful observation.

Have fun.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

You do not. The narrative you all have been pushing, of India not asking and we are not giving .. works on those who are fanboys.

Not here to prove you (not you personally) as bluffing.

Cheers.

We have been pushing this narrative because it is a narrative based on reasonable (not neccessarily true but reasonable) assumptions.

 

[Hellfire]

Actually the most mysterious part is Pakistan changing claim of 2 in custody to 1 in custody. I strongly believe we had 2 in custody but wreckage of only a single seater on our side (how the second pilot landed in Pak while his jet crashed in India is honestly difficult to explain).

But after Pak claiming 2 pilots in custody with wreckage of only 1 plane, India was left with two options;

1. Accept that 2 planes were shot and demand the second pilot.

2. Deny that 2 planes crashed and therefore demand release of only 1 pilot and sacrifice the other. This was the option of face saving at the cost of sacrificing the second pilot. India chose face saving and Pakistan welcomed that and said thank you, we'll keep the second pilot.

When you make such observations as above, it comes to fore to those who have operated in the area on ground and in air, that you are talking through the proverbial hat. You have no clue and are simply repeating a lie till you convince yourself of its veracity.

The winds are westerlies my dear sir, westerlies! They are quite powerful in those areas.

Explain the physics where winds blowing from west to east will see parachutes in Pakistan and a heavy aircraft in India? Man ... what physics are you reading?

@VCheng @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

When will people start using their brains?

We have been pushing this narrative because it is a narrative based on reasonable (not neccessarily true but reasonable) assumptions.

Reasonable would have been if you knew what you talk of.

The other day somebody was telling me of ground situation of Kashmir valley, where, I can assure you, none of you have spent more days than I have spent landing at Srinagar Airport, let alone actually operating there

@Alpha BeeTee

I suggest you only speak if you know facts. Simply pandering illogical things quoting me won't do. Just explain to me how a parachute, carrying a load of max 100 kgs will fall quickly on Pakistani side with winds blowing west to east and a sukhoi, will fall in India? Just explain this one sir.

On the other hand, forget it @Alpha BeeTee you can carry on pushing your narrative, not here to teach you

@I.R.A

You see, why I say send all to LC?

All are bloody warriors here .... there?