Liwa Zanibiyoun

[Crusher]

This is a very sensitive question that I would not have asked if not the given regional situation. If someone can help or point a credible source

What is the real percentage of Shia population in Pakistan?

Different sources on the internet give different numbers
Pro Sunni sources: 7 to 8 %
Independent Sources: 12-13 %
Pro Shia Sources: 20 to 22 %
CIA Factbook: 10 to 15%


@Path-Find

Shias make 20% only in Karachi city and some trolls on internet and Pakistani media with origins in Karachi extrapolate this number to entire Pakistan. In Punjab, Shias are less than 10% and in KPK they are less than even 5%.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

This Syrian conflict doesn't make sense to me at all. There are so many groups involved and the thing is that Assad is actually a Sunni and not even Shia.

As with all conflicts, what we need to understand is who benefits from this conflict? Is it the Syrians who benefit? Do Shias or Sunnis Benefit? If we figure out the end beneficiary we will know who is behind it all.

Further on the topic of stopping the Liwa Zanabiyoun. I agree but HOW? maybe the first step is starving it from recruiting. To do that we will need to address the reasons that it gets the recruits, one stop the terrorists attacking Shias in Pakistan and then eliminating the brain-washers. As for the genuine volunteers that want to preserve/protect the shrines, give them an alternate option like a Pakistani Militia run by Pakistan not a foreign country.

Also i was reading on the Afghan version of the Liwa, mate they have it really tough, much worse than what Pakistanis get.

That's what they tried to do to Pakistan but failed miserably

 

[Imad.Khan]

That's what they tried to do to Pakistan but failed miserably

Why is it that everyone recruits Pukhtoons, TTP mostly Pukhtoons and even this Liwa is all Pukhtoons? I am sick of others using our people for their own devious agendas.

 

[Rafi]

Shias make 20% only in Karachi city and some trolls on internet with origins in Karachi extrapolate this number to entire Pakistan. In Punjab, Shias are less than 10% and in KPK they are less than even 5%.

Bro I see you have evil intentions, even if that number of yours is true that is millions of people.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This Syrian conflict doesn't make sense to me at all. There are so many groups involved and the thing is that Assad is actually a Sunni and not even Shia.

He is from the Alawite community, which is neither Sunni nor Shia. They are a reclusive group like Druze, Bahai, and Yazidis.

They view Hazrat Ali with some kind of divinity, so they are not even Muslims if you research them fully.

Bashar Al Assad himself is an Atheist and devoted secularist. he follows a similar Baathist Pan-Arab ideology which Saddam did.

When the French and British left the region, they tried to put Non-Muslim groups in power over Muslims. Originally Ottoman Bilad Ash Sham included Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Western Iraq. Lebanon was sectioned off to become a Non-Muslim Christian Arab country, but later demographics made it Shia. Jordan was given to Hashemite rulers, descendants of the Sharifs of Makkah and Faisal I of Iraq. We all know what happened to Palestine...

Syria was put under military dictatorship of a 10% Alawite sect/ethnic minority ruling over a 90% Muslim (Sunni Arab mostly, and some Sunni Kurd) population first under Hafez Al Assad and then his son Bashar Al Assad.

Interesting that KSA,UAE promoted sectarianism which painted him as a Shia, which eventually Iran ran with to shore up its Shia proxies and unite them for the purpose of keeping him in power.

You have to understand that FSA would have taken over Syria and defeated Bashar, except that out of nowehere Daesh came (now we know on US and Israeli designs.) That gave impetus to PKK, Shia militias, and all manner of groups to come into Syria in full force.

Civilians in Syria suffered tragedies under all foreign forces, Daesh, PKK, Shia radical militias, and even the government of Syria under Bashar Al Assad. They are the real victims here.

Shias make 20% only in Karachi city and some trolls on internet and Pakistani media with origins in Karachi extrapolate this number to entire Pakistan. In Punjab, Shias are less than 10% and in KPK they are less than even 5%.

I also think so, numbers of Shia are exaggerated in Pakistan, perhaps to keep sectarianism to a minimum.

The Muhajir community has the largest number of Shias that I have seen, so Karachi is the largest Shia population. Agakhanis in particular are very prominent there.

I always heard 20% growing up, but there are not many Shias in Punjab. I always doubted that number. Although Sunnis and Shias in Punjab are fairly closeknit and you can only tell differences by first names. I used to go attend Ashura events in Lahore, Faislabad, and visited many Imambara there. I even remember they used to parade Zuljannah (horse of Imam Hussain RA) around the city, and I watched it thinking it is so cool.

 

[El Sidd]

Shias make 20% only in Karachi city and some trolls on internet and Pakistani media with origins in Karachi extrapolate this number to entire Pakistan. In Punjab, Shias are less than 10% and in KPK they are less than even 5%.

Seems legit.

India is 2nd biggest in population but sure try your luck with the bullies

 

[Imad.Khan]

He is from the Alawite community, which is neither Sunni nor Shia. They are a reclusive group like Druze, Bahai, and Yazidis.

They view Hazrat Ali with some kind of divinity, so they are not even Muslims if you research them fully.

Bashar Al Assad himself is an Atheist and devoted secularist. he follows a similar Baathist Pan-Arab ideology which Saddam did.

When the French and British left the region, they tried to put Non-Muslim groups in power over Muslims. Originally Ottoman Bilad Ash Sham included Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Western Iraq. Lebanon was sectioned off to become a Non-Muslim Christian Arab country, but later demographics made it Shia. Jordan was given to Hashemite rulers, descendants of the Sharifs of Makkah and Faisal I of Iraq. We all know what happened to Palestine...

Syria was put under military dictatorship of a 10% Alawite sect/ethnic minority ruling over a 90% Muslim (Sunni Arab mostly, and some Sunni Kurd) population first under Hafez Al Assad and then his son Bashar Al Assad.

Interesting that KSA,UAE promoted sectarianism which painted him as a Shia, which eventually Iran ran with to shore up its Shia proxies and unite them for the purpose of keeping him in power.

You have to understand that FSA would have taken over Syria and defeated Bashar, except that out of nowehere Daesh came (now we know on US and Israeli designs.) That gave impetus to PKK, Shia militias, and all manner of groups to come into Syria in full force.

Civilians in Syria suffered tragedies under all foreign forces, Daesh, PKK, Shia radical militias, and even the government of Syria under Bashar Al Assad. They are the real victims here.

I didn't know he was an Alwai, i saw a video of him praying and he was praying like Sunnis, so i figured that he was a Sunni. Actually Alawis consider themselves a sub-branch of Shias, just they are not religious at all. There are alot of them here in Australia mostly Lebanese and Syrians.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I didn't know he was an Alwai, i saw a video of him praying and he was praying like Sunnis, so i figured that he was a Sunni. Actually Alawis consider themselves a sub-branch of Shias, just they are not religious at all. There are alot of them here in Australia mostly Lebanese and Syrians.

They are not Shias originally, but maybe they are now that Iran helped them in their war against other Syrians.

 

[Imad.Khan]

I also think so, numbers of Shia are exaggerated in Pakistan, perhaps to keep sectarianism to a minimum.

The Muhajir community has the largest number of Shias that I have seen, so Karachi is the largest Shia population. Agakhanis in particular are very prominent there.

I always heard 20% growing up, but there are not many Shias in Punjab. I always doubted that number. Although Sunnis and Shias in Punjab are fairly closeknit and you can only tell differences by first names. I used to go attend Ashura events in Lahore, Faislabad, and visited many Imambara there. I even remember they used to parade Zuljannah (horse of Imam Hussain RA) around the city, and I watched it thinking it is so cool.

I remember as a 6/7 yr old kid in Karachi, during Muharram on the night before Ashura we would wake up all night and cook haleem and in the morning we would have our stalls ready with roh-afza and water and then on Ashura day we would hand out the food and drinks to people. One of my older cousin had told me that all these men with blood are coming back from war with India, I used to go up to those men so proudly and give them roh-afza and tell them that Inshallah we will conquer Kashmir. I still remember the weird looks i used to get from them. They probably thought i was a lunatic

 

[Pax Pakistanica]

This Syrian conflict doesn't make sense to me at all. There are so many groups involved and the thing is that Assad is actually a Sunni and not even Shia.

As with all conflicts, what we need to understand is who benefits from this conflict? Is it the Syrians who benefit? Do Shias or Sunnis Benefit? If we figure out the end beneficiary we will know who is behind it all.

Further on the topic of stopping the Liwa Zanabiyoun. I agree but HOW? maybe the first step is starving it from recruiting. To do that we will need to address the reasons that it gets the recruits, one stop the terrorists attacking Shias in Pakistan and then eliminating the brain-washers. As for the genuine volunteers that want to preserve/protect the shrines, give them an alternate option like a Pakistani Militia run by Pakistan not a foreign country.

Also i was reading on the Afghan version of the Liwa, mate they have it really tough, much worse than what Pakistanis get.

He is a follower of the Alawite sect which reveres the nephew of the Prophet, Ali ibn Abi Talib (May Allāh be pleased with him). Hafez al Assad was a nepotist and granted Alawites like himself higher government roles after his internal revolution/coup d'etat. It's no surprise that his son would look to get support from an anti-western imperialist state like Iran, which is also theologically closer to his sect and speaks out loud about the cries of the Palestinians (ironic considering that many Palestinians were celebrating Soleimani's death). Not to mention the Shia shrines.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Does Iran have a death wish? I've been telling people that snakes cant be trusted. They betrayed us before and they will do it again. The only friend of Pakistan was the shah. After him everyone in the Iranian power center is a threat to Pakistan.

Pakistan should close the border and watch them burn. We shouldshoube helping them, they arent worth a second of our time. The mess in Afghanistan is because of them. Any time Afghanistan comes closer to Pakistan, its always iran and its proxies that throw water over it. This attitude has been going on since the shah fell. The terrorism in Karachi, balochistan and kpk is funded by these snakes.

We honestly very well should. They treat the balochis like second class citizens then why shouldn't we provide and promise them equal rights. As any other Pakistani they will have same rights and freedoms.
It's time to flare the flames of independence on their side.

Flaring up baloch independence in their house burns our own balochistan as well dumbo.Dont put words in my mouth..I only talked about using their people for our interest.. BTW let me put a few things straight here, Irani Baloch regardless of discrimination enjoy a much better lifestyle and human development than our baloch that we didnt care about and left at the mercy of feudals.
Also you are giving Iran too much credit i.e. for destroying peace of Afghansitan ,Karachi,Baluchistan..You are probably doing this in some personal vendetta mode.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hayreddin]

Sole Purpose of "Liwa Zainabyun" (Pakistanis) are to defend the sacred shia sites of Syria and Karbala(Iraq)/Najaf(Iraq)/Kazmain(Iraq)/Samaraa(Iraq) & Zainabia(Syria) and they have done it and gave there lives for it...

Dont we know what daish did to Graves of Companion of Prophet (S.A.W) and Graves of Prophet (A.S). or do we have people here in this forum who supports this act?

Do not blind yourself in Hatred of sect!

they are the people who fight on there own free will. it has nothing to do with State of Pakistan....I hate when lot of people here on PDF keeps on pushing there sectarian agenda!

People going there with sincere passion to defend shrines but they are misused and mishandled by iran for their own political agenda of terror and hegmony in the region . Iran and israel both are equally evil and demonic in nature . Saudis and iranians have pushed the whole region in fire and blood . Attacks on shrines were carried out by Mossad agents . Dont you know ISIS handlers were in Tel aviv . Iran is poisonous for Pakistan as is India and israel . Iran try to breach in our armed forces through iran sympathizers shia muslims , alot of them were caught spying for iran . Iran and SA has sectarian wars in pakistan .
Remember iranians are first persian and thn shia . They are using other shia muslims as tissue paper .

 

[dBSPL]

He is from the Alawite community, which is neither Sunni nor Shia. They are a reclusive group like Druze, Bahai, and Yazidis.

It's not that simple...The basic principles and teachings of Nusayris(someones calls that Arabian Alawites) are closer to the Shiite sect. Although there are some differences between the Anatolian Alevism, both are historically closer to Shi'ism than to the Hanafi-Shafi schools in the region. However, they preserved their culture in the region. The Kizilbashs, on the other hand, followed ideologically always Jafarism. The reason for the separation of the Anatolian Alevism is that there is a very intricate relationship in Anatolia in terms of Sufism. (Those interested can investigate Bektashism.) To understand why this is so, we need to know the history of the region. Suppose that Sunni is blue and Shiite is green. Whoever you ask in any Anatolian village or in a Mesapotamia/Levant village , everybody say that Alawis are tone of green. This camps was an important factor in the regional hegemony struggle of the Safavid and Ottoman dynasties. As both states turned into empires and natural boundaries began to emerge, this tension fell, but never disappeared. Some Jafari sources still refer to all Alevism branches as their own.

This situation differs from Yemen in terms of its historical characteristics, for example. Until recently, the Zaydiyya branch managed to remain at a distance from Jafarism. However, the current polarization in our region has begun to consolidate all these under the IRGC's proxy elements which is packaging as holy jihad.

As for the Assad dynasty, the family has an autocratic secular tendency that seized power through a military coup. However, both the massacres of the father-Hafiz era, and the systematic massacres and atrocities against Sunni society "espacially" between 2011 and 2014; not only radicalized the opposition, but also transformed the identity of the war into sectarian struggle.

I don't want to block this topic by uploading visual material about how horror was lived in the early years of the Syrian civil war. I'm quietly following the title. However, I don't see any innocence, about presenting terrorists which are coming here as jihadist heaps, as angels of goodness under this title. They make fun of our memories. Or they have no idea what's going on here.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Flaring up baloch independence in their house burns our own balochistan as well dumbo.Dont put words in my mouth..I only talked about using their people for our interest.. BTW let me put a few things straight here, Irani Baloch regardless of discrimination enjoy a much better lifestyle and human development than our baloch that we didnt care about and left at the mercy of feudals.
Also you are giving Iran too much credit i.e. for destroying peace of Afghansitan ,Karachi,Baluchistan..You are probably doing this in some personal vendetta mode.

Actually @Pakhtoon yum is 100% here. Iran's meddling has caused pain and suffering all over the Muslim world, and also in Pakistan.

Wahabbi and Salafi extremist has been discussed all over the world, but hardly anyone talks about Iran sponsored Shia radicalism in Sunni majority countries. We should talk about both.

However, Pakistani establishment has done well to nip sectarian conflict in the bud whenever it rises. This is just a bandage though, unless we deal with the actual root causes and source of proxies, we can't stop this issue. It can engulf us anytime.

It's not that simple...The basic principles and teachings of Nusayris(someones calls that Arabian Alawites) are closer to the Shiite sect. Although there are some differences between the Anatolian Alevism, both are historically closer to Shi'ism than to the Hanafi-Shafi schools in the region. However, they preserved their culture in the region. The Kizilbashs, on the other hand, followed ideologically always Jafarism. The reason for the separation of the Anatolian Alevism is that there is a very intricate relationship in Anatolia in terms of Sufism. (Those interested can investigate Bektashism.) To understand why this is so, we need to know the history of the region. Suppose that Sunni is blue and Shiite is green. Whoever you ask in any Anatolian village or in a Mesapotamia/Levant village , everybody say that Alawis are tone of green. This camps was an important factor in the regional hegemony struggle of the Safavid and Ottoman dynasties. As both states turned into empires and natural boundaries began to emerge, this tension fell, but never disappeared. Some Jafari sources still refer to all Alevism branches as their own.

This situation differs from Yemen in terms of its historical characteristics, for example. Until recently, the Zaydiyya branch managed to remain at a distance from Jafarism. However, the current polarization in our region has begun to consolidate all these under the IRGC's proxy elements which is packaging as holy jihad.

As for the Assad dynasty, the family has an autocratic secular tendency that seized power through a military coup. However, both the massacres of the father-Hafiz era, and the systematic massacres and atrocities against Sunni society "espacially" between 2011 and 2014; not only radicalized the opposition, but also transformed the identity of the war into sectarian struggle.

I don't want to block this topic by uploading visual material about how horror was lived in the early years of the Syrian civil war. I'm quietly following the title. However, I don't see any innocence, about presenting terrorists which are coming here as jihadist heaps, as angels of goodness under this title. They make fun of our memories. Or they have no idea what's going on here.

Great post.

In addition to their different religion, Alawites are also a different race than the rest of Syrians, they live in the mountains of Latakia and have traditionally been isolated and insular.

 

[Aryzin]

Actually @Pakhtoon yum is 100% here. Iran's meddling has caused pain and suffering all over the Muslim world, and also in Pakistan.

Wahabbi and Salafi extremist has been discussed all over the world, but hardly anyone talks about Iran sponsored Shia radicalism in Sunni majority countries. We should talk about both.

However, Pakistani establishment has done well to nip sectarian conflict in the bud whenever it rises. This is just a bandage though, unless we deal with the actual root causes and source of proxies, we can't stop this issue. It can engulf us anytime.



Great post.

In addition to their different religion, Alawites are also a different race than the rest of Syrians, they live in the mountains of Latakia and have traditionally been isolated and insular.

An old legend mentions hat Druze and Alawites were the remnants of the old Persian garrisons that were left when Persia retreated. But it’s only a legend.