Living in a world without the West

[illusion8]

US economy picks up after early spring slump - Economic Times

 

[Black Widow]

q





if any part will be doomed will be Asia. densely populated asian countriewill suffer hunger poverty and crime. europe will recover. but don't worry things won't hi that bad.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If US wants to keep playing the World Police, then let them be.

The role of the World Police is really costy for anyone.

 

[Hello_10]

PIGS! No, I’m not swearing at anyone. PIGS is the acronym of Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain – the four European countries so deep in economic trouble that not even light can reach the bottom.

By the time the current recession pans out, vast swathes of Europe will have living standards lower than Thailand’s. In some regions, reports the Daily Mail, people are abandoning their children at charity homes. An entire generation of youth in Western Europe and the United States is growing up without the assurance of jobs – forget the cradle to grave security their parents and grandparents took for granted.

Canada’s Globe & Mail newspaper wonders if Britain’s current condition is a harbinger of the West’s future. It says that intergenerational poverty, rare in most countries today, has become a factor in a notable British subculture. That tallies with a British government report which shows that if you are born poor, you stay poor. Worse, millions of middle class British youth are faced with the stark choice of either stepping down into the underclass or migrating. (People from the UK and Ireland comprise the largest chunk – 32 percent – of immigrants coming into New Zealand.)

However, it is the American implosion that is most extraordinary. Not too long ago, Tracy, a small town near San Francisco, California, declared that its residents will be charged $300 every time the fire department responds to their 911 emergency calls. Remember, California is America’s richest state.

The US media is finally, although reluctantly, talking about the havoc the recession is wreaking on ordinary people, such as the 45 million Americans suffering from chronic hunger. The official jobless rate is 9 percent but that figure doesn’t include people who have stopped looking for jobs or are unemployable. Then it leaps to 17 percent, which is the point when the middle class starts crumbling.

Such a drastic decline in its power base threatens to topple the Atlantic alliance from the apex position it has occupied for just over 300 years.

Crumbling fortress

This double whammy – the erosion of economic status and the loss of global hegemony – is causing considerable disquiet in the extreme right. American arch-conservative politician and one-time presidential candidate Patrick Buchanan is horrified at the prospect of a diminished global status even as much of what was once the Third World is roaring up the growth charts.

Buchanan’s new book Suicide of a Superpower, about America’s decline, has been called racist and homophobic by critics, but it nevertheless has some grounding in reality. “America is disintegrating,” he screams. “The centrifugal forces pulling us apart are growing inexorably. What unites us is dissolving. And this is true of Western Civilization.... Meanwhile, the state is failing in its most fundamental duties. It is no longer able to defend our borders, balance our budgets, or win our wars.”

Another right winger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, who spent the better part of his life advocating the destruction of Russia so that the Eurasian landmass could be turned into a lebensraum for the West, is now realising that the conservatives on the grand chessboard have been checkmated.

Brzezinski, a Pole, has gone to extent of claiming credit for the strategy that drew Russia into Afghanistan. Now he’s done an abrupt u-turn in his new book Strategic Vision: America and the Crisis of Global Power, in which he pleads that Russia be included in “a larger and more vital West”.

Brzezinski’s transformation from hawk to dove comes from the desperation of his cause – preaching to a dying empire.

Centre of gravity shifts

Contrary to what the media says, it’s not wars in Iraq or Afghanistan wars that have caused the West to lose traction. It’s just that the East is becoming wealthier in comparison through better economic practices and systems.

Chew on this figure – $123,000,000,000,000. For the numerically challenged that’s $123 trillion and China’s estimated economy in the year 2040. For perspective, the US economy is worth some $14 trillion today. What it means is China will soon become a colossus and the US will have to simply take a deep breath and retreat. If Delhi gets it act right, India could easily be the world’s leading economy in less than half a century. These figures are giving nightmares to Western conservative think tanks.

That’s not all. Western clubs like G8 are on life support – Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he won’t be attending its summit this year. Without small defenceless countries to bomb, NATO is less cohesive. And the IMF, that organ of American imperialism, will have to down shutters or offer more voting power to China and India.

That is tomorrow’s world without the West.

Routing around the West

The concept was first articulated by American academics Steven Weber, Naazneen Barma and Ely Ratner who said that in the new world order the rising powers are keen to break the dominance of the current order by increasingly “routing around” the West.

For years the East vs West debate has been framed largely in terms of whether emerging powers like China, India, Russia and Brazil will integrate into or challenge the existing international system built by the West. Weber and his associates contend rising powers are opting for neither.

“By preferentially deepening their own ties among themselves, and in so doing loosening relatively the ties that bind them to the international system centred in the West, rising powers are building an alternative system of international politics whose endpoint is neither conflict nor assimilation with the West,” they say.

This works in two ways. One, the rising powers deepen their trade, defence and cultural ties among themselves, creating a new parallel international system. So in effect, by not playing by the rules set by the West they are creating an alternative arrangement in which they neither enter into conflict situations with the West nor enter into subservient alliances (like those offered to South Korea and Japan).

Crucially, the developing world is routing around not just the West but also the idea of the West, making it increasingly difficult for Western narratives to penetrate the developing world.

This makes the West simply irrelevant.

For instance, India’s biggest trade partners are ASEAN, UAE and China; it wasn’t that long ago when the EU and the US were considered its traditional markets. India’s Commerce Ministry has set an export target of $500 billion by 2014 and the focus is entirely on Africa, Asia and Latin America to the virtual exclusion of the West.

Russia is using its vast oil and gas resources to shut out Western companies from the great new pipelines snaking out of Central Asia. China’s trade with emerging markets has grown so fast in the past seven years that it can now offset any weakness in the American and European markets.

As the West stumbles around in the recession, both India and China are racing each other to buy up the world’s minerals and commodities. Indian companies are buying farmland across Africa to grow food for a billion people. China has turned Australia into a virtual mining colony.

After Australia refused to sell uranium to India, New Delhi signed long-term agreements with Kazakhstan and Russia, shutting out the Australia for the next 30 years.

The West is literally being squeezed out.

Economic Darwinism

One reason for its growing irrelevance is that the West’s economic model is sputtering. Banks and financial institutions across the Western world have violated nearly all the 10 Commandments – they have lied to their customers and stolen trillions of dollars. The politicians who are supposed to have protected these unfortunate investors have lied even more and shielded these bank robbers and then rewarded them with hundreds of billions in bailout cash (borrowed from China). US billionaire philanthropist Pete Petersen calls it “carnivorous and animalistic capitalism”.

Another reason why the emerging countries are determined to establish a new system is America’s blatant misuse of the dollar. The US Federal Reserve ‘creates’ money by merely electronically ‘transferring’ trillions of dollars into the US banking system. Even printing bills has been given the go-by. In fact, defying the laws of economics as well as physics, wealth is being created quite literally out of thin air. Financial expert Max Kaiser says, “Countries like Russia, China and Brazil are trying to divorce themselves from the US dollar because it’s a completely toxic currency that’s just right for the counting fraud. It supports an empire that’s just too lazy to compete.”

The BRICS, for instance, have gone into a huddle several times to find a replacement for the dollar and end America’s phoney economics. Even India, whose leaders compete with Britain to cosy up to Washington, has spoken of the need for an alternate global currency. At the very minimum, this means the creation of a new centre of gravity of the world.

Smaller players like Iran have their own axe to grind. In 1953, a US-UK coup ousted their democratically elected leader Mossadeq, causing decades of instability. One of the reasons why Iran is being demonised by the West is that Tehran has been trying to create a petroleum exchange where payments will be accepted in any major currency bar the dollar. Can you blame the Iranians for carrying a grudge?

The West has had its heyday and made too many enemies along the way. Unfortunately its democratic traditions have not benefitted much of the planet. In contrast the model of authoritarian prosperity espoused by Russia and China has yielded dramatic results.

The transition to a post-Western world has started – and you have front row seats.

Living in a world without the West | Russia & India Report

its now PIIGGS: Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Great Britain, Spain

Britain's borrowing habit puts it in the 'PIIGS'

Britain's debt problem vs the PIIGS - Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain | This is Money

and here we have an almost set future of US$

 

[kalu_miah]

I am not familiar with the topic, but how could the death of one person can have such a huge historical consequence?

Mongol invasion of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The traditional European method of warfare of melee combat between knights ended in catastrophe when it was deployed against the Mongol forces. The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Volume 29 says that "Employed against the Mongol invaders of Europe, knightly warfare failed even more disastrously for the Poles at Legnica and the Hungarians at Mohi in 1241. Feudal Europe was saved from sharing the fate of China and Muscovy not by its tactical prowess but by the unexpected death of the Mongol's supreme ruler, Ogedei, and the subsequent eastward retreat of his armies."[27]

My own narrative from my post in another thread, the link of which I included in above post:

Lets turn back the clock and look at the world scenario back in around 1200 AD. The Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Byzantine Empire are both in decline. Western Europe has been through the dark ages. Spain was lost to the Muslims. Much of North Africa and Middle East was lost to the Muslim powers. Byzantine Empire is slowly loosing its steam. Crusades did not put much of a dent to the rise of Islam and Muslims, the Crusades were by and large failures, but they did bring exposure for Europeans to the world of Muslims and their civilization. In this hopeless situation, out of nowhere (well, actually todays Mongolia and around lake Baikal) came the Mongol horsemen. Within decades Russia, Eastern Europe, Muslim Central Asia and Middle East were devastated. The establishment of Pax Mongolica over much of Asian land mass took all societies through demographic and other forms of extreme make over transformation. In India they could not beat Turkic horsemen of Alauddin Khilji of Delhi Sultanate, although troops were sent 5-6 times. At Ain Jalut, also Turkic Mamlukes defeated Mongol forces, but this was not a full contingent of Hulagu Khan's army.

The most important event took place in the twin city of Buda and Pest (todays Budapest). Subutai and Batu Khan's army had just finished off Polish army and Hungarian Teutonic Knights. A large part of the Hungarian population were decimated, except for the ones who were lucky enough to hide inside forts. So General Subutai and the Khan camps out with their army of 200,000-300,000 horsemen, with 2-3 times number of horses. Finding grassland to graze these huge number of horses were a major tactical concern, so Mongols are sending out scouts to all parts of Western Europe to come up with a plan of attack to subjugate all of remaining Europe. It takes a lot of planning and almost a year has past in Buda-Pest and preparations are almost complete to initiate the attack. At this fateful moment in 1241, comes the news that the great Khan Ogedei have passed away. All leaders of some consequence, must now go back to Kharakhorum, the seat of the great Khan and the capital of the unified Mongol empire for a Khurultai (meeting or conference) to choose the new great Khan, according to the Mongol custom/code Yasak, established by Chingis Khan. So the army marches back, never to return with the same momentum and force to complete the job they had to abandon, the job of making the borders of Mongol empire from Pacific coast in Siberia and China to the Atlantic coast of Western Europe.

Similar is the story of Japan, it was attacked 2 times by Yuan Mongol forces with Chinese and Korean maritime armada, but every time there was bad luck of typhoons that diminished their chances of victory. These divine winds are called Kamikaze (it does not mean suicide fighter pilots, although the word was used to mean that these suicide pilots in WW II would also save Japan, just as the divine Typhoons did) in Japanese, that saved Japan from Mongol subjugation.

According to the Historical Continuity hypothesis, since the established powers of the time were crushed under the Mongol hammer and only Western Europe and Japan was spared and remained standing, it is no surprise then that West Europeans soon were ascendant with Renaissance, Maritime supremacy and eventual colonization of the planet. Japan was isolationist through out this period. It was opened up by force by Admiral Perry around 1860's. It adapted Western technology in a few decades and became a world power. Soon it had the honour to beat Tzarist Russia, the first White nation ever to be beaten by non-whites and went on to colonize Korea, Manchuria and parts of Asia.

This is just one example, the theory can be applied to other historical situations, current world affairs and future projections and planning.

 

[Abii]

Thought provoking, but wrong. For an example, China's rise is due to giving up one borrowed western ideology for another (communism for capitalism). Will give the CCP this, they were the only ones with the strength to wipe the old civilization away (the 3 olds, etc., None of the other post-imperial "governments" could do it)

Capitalism isn't a Western ideology. In its current form, sure, we can argue about it, but in essense, capitalism is very much Eastern. From the Neolithic times to the Middle Ages, capitalism was very much an Eastern dominated ideology. The modern Western banking system, which was invented in Italy (before unification), is just an add on to the ideology.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Thought provoking, but wrong. For an example, China's rise is due to giving up one borrowed western ideology for another (communism for capitalism). Will give the CCP this, they were the only ones with the strength to wipe the old civilization away (the 3 olds, etc., None of the other post-imperial "governments" could do it)

China's system cannot be called capitalist. The essence of capitalism is private ownership of the factors of production: land, labor and resources. In China, only 1 of those (labor) is privately owned by the individual. Land is owned by the state - people just lease it for varying rents ranging from negative (that's to say, you get paid to use the land) on farms to tens of millions for city real estate. Resources are all controlled by state owned companies.

 

[Rod of God]

As I said in another thread, China IS a rising nation (about time, they've only been around for a few THOUSAND years), with about 300,000,000 people living the 'dream'. BUT, there are about ONE BILLION Chinese that don't have a pot to piss in. Wait till they smarten up and 'want theirs'.

Also, a 'FUNNY' thing for the U.S. to do would be to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Wipe out all that debt to China.

 

[fallstuff]

The West will be there in a smaller role. The East has always been for the most part of the history stronger and prosperous.

Whats happening is simply natural.

 

[doidoi2]

Ironically, the actor that's most responsible for propping up the Western Nations is... none other than China.


China's insistence on shipping real goods for pieces of paper known as treasuries is allowing the West (read: America) to focus its resources on the military. Chinese people toil, so that America can use its treasuries to buy a new shiny F22.

China willingly sells its people into servitude to support Western companies. If Dell and HP did not have access to Chinese OEM companies, what would happen? Think about this. Dell and HP, or even Apple, would NOT BE ABLE TO COMPETE against Chinese companies who have access to the most advanced supply chain and efficient manufacturing base on the planet. They will eventually fade away, as domestic Chinese companies take their place.

As of right now, Chinese companies and people toil, but the real fruits of labor are reaped by the Western companies. The real enabler of Western Dominance is China, and the sooner China realizes this, the better off China will be.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh my people.

Are you not seeing the reality
Are you not hearing?

You all are confusing whole bunch of Western countries as if they are one monolithic entity. They are not.

Americans have their own stuff, Germans their own, and yes there are Greeks and Spaniards too. But they all are different and hence they all have different futures.

Americans are the smartest. Think about it.

Americans have put 1+ billion Chines and 1+ billion Indians and countless other millions from Asia (Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Thailand etc.) to work for them.

This is not America's end, it is the new beginning. They got billions of laborers at $1 or $2 and all these laborers are so happy to get this work. And american government doesn't have to pay a dime for managing them.


On the other hand Europeans like Greece and Spain have huge welfare systems with little production.

So they are suffering. Once they get rid of the fat and the fatso unions, they will become neat and trim American copies.

A new age of global economy is coming and smart will become even richer and they will have billions of Asians working for them and guess what? for pittance.


peace.

 

[doidoi2]

Oh my people.

Are you not seeing the reality
Are you not hearing?
Americans have put 1+ billion Chines and 1+ billion Indians and countless other millions from Asia (Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Thailand etc.) to work for them.

This is not America's end, it is the new beginning. They got billions of laborers at $1 or $2 and all these laborers are so happy to get this work. And american government doesn't have to pay a dime for managing them.


On the other hand Europeans like Greece and Spain have huge welfare systems with little production.

So they are suffering. Once they get rid of the fat and the fatso unions, they will become neat and trim American copies.

A new age of global economy is coming and smart will become even richer and they will have billions of Asians working for them and guess what? for pittance.

peace.

EXACTLY. couldn't have said it better myself.

Though I have to say, Change is coming.

There will come a day when Chinese people realize that making factory wages for a pittance is not the best way to make money.


There will come a day when Americans wake up and find that they no longer have the skills nor the expertise to make the stuff they once made.

There will come a day when Chinese companies realize that all they need is Branding, and that doing OEM work without branding is for suckers.

and that day, my friends, is coming sooner than you think.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

As I said in another thread, China IS a rising nation (about time, they've only been around for a few THOUSAND years), with about 300,000,000 people living the 'dream'. BUT, there are about ONE BILLION Chinese that don't have a pot to piss in. Wait till they smarten up and 'want theirs'.

Also, a 'FUNNY' thing for the U.S. to do would be to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Wipe out all that debt to China.

Without a pot to piss in? This isn't India here. China's electrification rate reached 97% in 2007, higher than Israel. Average calorie intake in China is at the norm for East Asian countries and China has the highest per capita meat consumption in Asia. Internet access is approaching 50%, mobile use is over 1 billion.

Now Indians are the ones who don't have a pot to piss in, literally. There are less toilets in India than mobile phones. Only 8% of the population (the top tier elites) can access the internet. Electrification is at 50%, lower than some African countries. I won't even mention calorie intake.

It'd be funny indeed. 70% of US debt is owed to the American people. That'd be real fun when the American people lose all their savings.

 

[doidoi2]

Without a pot to piss in? This isn't India here. China's electrification rate reached 97% in 2007, higher than Israel. Average calorie intake in China is at the norm for East Asian countries and China has the highest per capita meat consumption in Asia. Internet access is approaching 50%, mobile use is over 1 billion.

Now Indians are the ones who don't have a pot to piss in, literally. There are less toilets in India than mobile phones. Only 8% of the population (the top tier elites) can access the internet. Electrification is at 50%, lower than some African countries. I won't even mention calorie intake.

It'd be funny indeed. 70% of US debt is owed to the American people. That'd be real fun when the American people lose all their savings.

Hey cmon. Let's not forget that China was in a similar situation not too long before. India has a long ways to go for sure, but it's not right to bask in the misery of others. India is improving day by day.

Also, 70% of US debt is not owed to the American people. It's held by the Federal Reserve, which means that the debt is capitalized with money 'Printed' out of thin air.

Who really financed the debt? All holders of US Dollars. That means you, me, every American citizen, Japan, and China.

We all get ripped off. The only ones who get rich are the companies making phat money off the US Military and banks. The 70% is value filched from all our purses and bank accounts.

 

[Rig Vedic]

O
Americans are the smartest. Think about it.

Americans have put 1+ billion Chines and 1+ billion Indians and countless other millions from Asia (Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Thailand etc.) to work for them.

This is not America's end, it is the new beginning. They got billions of laborers at $1 or $2 and all these laborers are so happy to get this work. And american government doesn't have to pay a dime for managing them.

Have to agree with doidoi2 ...

With local supply chains + Android, all that is missing is the brand name.

When Asian suppliers get their own brands, it will get difficult for many big US companies.