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Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani Sacked/Resigned

It’s alleged that there were disguised perpetrators involved since civil clothes men jumped from back of trucks but the point to ponder is different.

IMO the statements of ISPR give away clues. The statements come totally against PTI as a planned media move by ISPR. The statements targeted PTI hooliganism. This leads two ways. One, Military knew it will target PTI in media and this ensured that PTI should cause destruction. Two, some residences of corps Comd were vacated, some cantt entrances made open, and military vehicles were alighted.

Point two shows that security was compromised by military by opening cantts entrances, no one knows how many anti-Pakistan elements went in and out freely that day. Then military knew what was coming so why were military vehicles allowed on the roads. Military knew what was coming coz cantts which are supposed to be secure place were run over, or allowed to be run over ?

A Corps commander is a leader from age 20, and they become Lt Gen at around 55+, so 35 years of leadership. Heck he should know how to tackle and handle the mob. The place was run over. There is something else behind it.

Coming to point one, was this taken as an opportunity by military to target PTI by trying to brand PTI as terrorist organisation while retreating on many fronts. Let PTI mob gain advantage at certain locations while hit them at other locations. Why was Corps Comd residences run over, while Corps HQ remain intact. There was also DG Rangers, and two GOCs in Lahore apart from LOG AREA Comd, all generals, so why mob concentrated at one location only (a residence) which was vacated. Was the mob directed there ?

Another important thing, why didn’t COAS come in front and have a statement or through any other mean to quell the public. Why did military give in to the mob ? Military didn’t need to fire a weapon at the mob to stop them. No one from top brass of GHQ or any other cantt came face to face in uniform in front of the mob even with a few platoons of armed soldiers or without them.

Every security professional knows mob mentality, PA is much ahead of that. You see ISPR didn’t quell or calm the public, ISPR attacked PTI through media from the get go. That’s concerning. At this point, COAS should have ordered all commanders of cantts to let the mob come to them and stand their ground (with or without armed soldiers). Better to have un armed soldiers coz deputing an armed soldier infront of own citizen gives a wrong stance and message.

I can myself think of few ways how mobs can be quelled, I have seen examples in Balochistan tribes also who are hardened men, not PTI mummy daddy’s. I have myself seen unarmed Lt Col ranks walking upto armed Baluchistan tribes who were on a rampage and talking to the tribe/mob leader.

The problem is that military is bloody strong in every aspect, it can take on hits from own citizens, Indian Army, TTP, BLA and still keep functioning.

Now we would hear insider stories why this Corps Comd was removed, but none would be correct unfortunately. The game played in Pakistan is not as straight forward as it seems so keep speculating according to your own perception.
Post in thread 'Ousted Prime Minister Imran Khan Arrested: News and Discussion' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/oust...sted-news-and-discussion.767114/post-14361762
 
@Signalian talks like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. You need to be able to decode what he's saying.

What he's saying is:

1. The plan was to insert agitators to cause maximum destruction to justify banning PTI.

2. There is a dispute going on within GHQ among themselves.
 
Post in thread 'Ousted Prime Minister Imran Khan Arrested: News and Discussion' https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/oust...sted-news-and-discussion.767114/post-14361762
Corps commander this, corps commander that. Saw the value of a corps commander ? Sidelined like any other.

All the talk on PDF for months and months, of we will walk onto corps commanders houses or burn down the GHQ. Have these KPIs been met ? 😂

In Urdu, shock poora ho gaya corps commander tak rasayi ka ya phir GHQ per march karnay ka ? 😂

Kiya hasil hua ? Kuch pallay parra ? 😂 nothing.

Now blame USA, all this game is done through backing of USA otherwise what would N-league patwari and military Generals know.
 
@Signalian talks like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. You need to be able to decode what he's saying.

What he's saying is:

1. The plan was to insert agitators to cause maximum destruction to justify banning PTI.

2. There is a dispute going on within GHQ among themselves.
Instead of opening a front against PTI, ISPR should have formed strategy to align relations with public.
 
Instead of opening a front against PTI, ISPR should have formed strategy to align relations with public.

Half the forum has been saying, go with the tide, not against it. There should be a Political Science arm to guide GHQ because the last year, it's been a face flat on the pavement. But, as I maintained my position from the beginning, it's often best not to say anything.
 
It’s alleged that there were disguised perpetrators involved since civil clothes men jumped from back of trucks but the point to ponder is different.

IMO the statements of ISPR give away clues. The statements come totally against PTI as a planned media move by ISPR. The statements targeted PTI hooliganism. This leads two ways. One, Military knew it will target PTI in media and this ensured that PTI should cause destruction. Two, some residences of corps Comd were vacated, some cantt entrances made open, and military vehicles were alighted.

Point two shows that security was compromised by military by opening cantts entrances, no one knows how many anti-Pakistan elements went in and out freely that day. Then military knew what was coming so why were military vehicles allowed on the roads. Military knew what was coming coz cantts which are supposed to be secure place were run over, or allowed to be run over ?

A Corps commander is a leader from age 20, and they become Lt Gen at around 55+, so 35 years of leadership. Heck he should know how to tackle and handle the mob. The place was run over. There is something else behind it.

Coming to point one, was this taken as an opportunity by military to target PTI by trying to brand PTI as terrorist organisation while retreating on many fronts. Let PTI mob gain advantage at certain locations while hit them at other locations. Why was Corps Comd residences run over, while Corps HQ remain intact. There was also DG Rangers, and two GOCs in Lahore apart from LOG AREA Comd, all generals, so why mob concentrated at one location only (a residence) which was vacated. Was the mob directed there ?

Another important thing, why didn’t COAS come in front and have a statement or through any other mean to quell the public. Why did military give in to the mob ? Military didn’t need to fire a weapon at the mob to stop them. No one from top brass of GHQ or any other cantt came face to face in uniform in front of the mob even with a few platoons of armed soldiers or without them.

Every security professional knows mob mentality, PA is much ahead of that. You see ISPR didn’t quell or calm the public, ISPR attacked PTI through media from the get go. That’s concerning. At this point, COAS should have ordered all commanders of cantts to let the mob come to them and stand their ground (with or without armed soldiers). Better to have un armed soldiers coz deputing an armed soldier infront of own citizen gives a wrong stance and message.

I can myself think of few ways how mobs can be quelled, I have seen examples in Balochistan tribes also who are hardened men, not PTI mummy daddy’s. I have myself seen unarmed Lt Col ranks walking upto armed Baluchistan tribes who were on a rampage and talking to the tribe/mob leader.

The problem is that military is bloody strong in every aspect, it can take on hits from own citizens, Indian Army, TTP, BLA and still keep functioning.

Now we would hear insider stories why this Corps Comd was removed, but none would be correct unfortunately. The game played in Pakistan is not as straight forward as it seems so keep speculating according to your own perception.
The last two pressers from ISPR were specifically very concerning and uncharacteristic. No offense but they sounded like Maryam Auregzeb wrote them. Without getting in trouble, are you implying there is power struggle going on? Is there a section that wants to push PTI towards insurgency and then achieve certain objectives no matter the cost on public loss?
To my knowledge PTI had toned down against Asim and Co, except some recent references to Gen Faisal. Why overreact to this suddenly?

Instead of opening a front against PTI, ISPR should have formed strategy to align relations with public.
Why did they not just clarify on the allegations in a non political matter, if it was that necessary - instead of using rhetoric like ‘a power hungry group disguised as a political party’. Expected to come from likes if Rana Sanaullah, but not ISPR.

@PanzerKiel
 
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Political concerns overriding Professionalism. Could make few people happy now, but corrodes the structure from within.

Appointing just Yes Boss type people should be avoided by top guy.
 
thats how all armies work
you either follow orders, or you leave

I am sure you are an expert on laws governing armed forces but ..........

1) "In international law, a criminal order or illegal order is a military order for the commission of a war crime or other violation of international criminal law. Because superior orders do not exonerate such violations, it is obligatory to disobey the order."

Wikipedia Link.


2) Also oath taken by cadets at PMA passing out parade, binds them to follow legal orders issued by their superiors. I am sure you have listened to that oath multiple times.


3) Finally, Supreme Court of Pakistan has ruled in Asghar Khan case "“All officers who obey unlawful commands are individually liable and in the event of failure of the state authorities to take action, the rights of the people of Pakistan are to be upheld by the Supreme Court,” said the 141-page".

But since you are an expert, you are obviously right.
 
it’s alleged that other elements of political parties and other intel agency civilian-clad dressed men actually joined in to create burning and chaos.

So are you saluting him for not firing at whom ? PTI workers or the alleged civilian clothes personnel who created chaos.
It's true that in order to save the lives of the Pakistani nation, he sacrifices his perks and benefits, which is an unexpected behavior from someone of his rank. But yes, their operations have not stopped yet. It is a sign that something fishy is going on when international media outlets stop covering the IK case.



These two mistakes haunted us as a nation.
پاکستانیوں کے دو گناہ کبیرہ ہیں

حفاظت کیلئے محافظ پالنا
اور جنت کیلئے مولوی پالنا
 
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All the gung-ho people here twisting facts and words.
Which people are you referring to...the supporters of PDM and army generals and servants of america

Or the Pakistani people who want their country back?

Do tell us
 

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