Lets call it a day!!!

[x_man]

Hi guys and gals

Well , while we are discussing airplanes, weapons, cockpits and future of airforce, I would like to highlight and raise an issue here..........well its about our combat pilots...I want to make a statement here:-

Right now broadly speaking, we have two types of pilots: First is of those who have already left the airforce and second:those who are thinking about leaving airforce but has'nt gathered the courage yet!!!!

It might seem an exegerrated statement but the dissappointing fact is that: its true.Now thats what I call Situation Critical. When our present CAS took over, he said in his opening message,' We want only willing workers..anybody who wants to leave can go'. Soooo many applied for premature / voluntary retirement ( that included guys from frontline squadrons and ace pilots) that airstaff was taken by surprize. And after allowing few guys go they had to put their foot down. Sorry kids...no more releases.

Well I assume that loads of guys folding their combat wings is ....because....they see hope outside the blue uniform. For the first time in 60 years, airforce got some real rival...first time they had a competition in shape of jobs openings in commmercial aviation within and outside Pakistan. The way commercial aviation is expanding (thanks to overwhelming growth of worlds population) is not seen ever before. Just in Pakistan where only 3% of your population actually air travels, there is shortage of pilots. Just imagine the countries where almost 100% population airtravels regularly.

I think its an alarming situation where combat ready fighter pilots are dreaming of big jets. But why to blame them? Everybody looks for brighter future...and if airforce cant promise it then these hawks are bound to fly away sooner or later.

chow

 

[Contrarian]

Happens dude. And this is only the start, as the aviation sector in Pakistan grows more and more, this problem will get severely exagerated. IAF has been facing these problems for a long while now, the aviation sector is fcking booming, only the infrastructure is limiting the growth.

USAF also faced teh same problem long back. They have this scheme they introduced, i dont remember, it was quite novel. Now IAF also has this transfer scheme. PAF will figure out the best way for them as well.

 

[Neo]

It is an exaggerated statement and one should not worry about it! Civil aviation is attracting a lots of combat pilots all over the world but in a military society or culture like Pakistan they live like gods, PAF is elite, creme de la creme and offers far better secundary benefits than civil aviation.
I believe the claim is bias.

 

[Cheetah786]

Hi guys and gals

Well , while we are discussing airplanes, weapons, cockpits and future of airforce, I would like to highlight and raise an issue here..........well its about our combat pilots...I want to make a statement here:-

Right now broadly speaking, we have two types of pilots: First is of those who have already left the airforce and second:those who are thinking about leaving airforce but has'nt gathered the courage yet!!!!

It might seem an exegerrated statement but the dissappointing fact is that: its true.Now thats what I call Situation Critical. When our present CAS took over, he said in his opening message,' We want only willing workers..anybody who wants to leave can go'. Soooo many applied for premature / voluntary retirement ( that included guys from frontline squadrons and ace pilots) that airstaff was taken by surprize. And after allowing few guys go they had to put their foot down. Sorry kids...no more releases.

Well I assume that loads of guys folding their combat wings is ....because....they see hope outside the blue uniform. For the first time in 60 years, airforce got some real rival...first time they had a competition in shape of jobs openings in commmercial aviation within and outside Pakistan. The way commercial aviation is expanding (thanks to overwhelming growth of worlds population) is not seen ever before. Just in Pakistan where only 3% of your population actually air travels, there is shortage of pilots. Just imagine the countries where almost 100% population airtravels regularly.

I think its an alarming situation where combat ready fighter pilots are dreaming of big jets. But why to blame them? Everybody looks for brighter future...and if airforce cant promise it then these hawks are bound to fly away sooner or later.

chow

i have never ever seen a new CEO comes in and the first thing out of his mouth OK guys who wants to leave leave.
it costs fair amount of money to train a pilot only a loonie will come in and say that.
and so far whats happening with PAF our CAS is any thing but a loonie.

chow chow

 

[Chrome9]

Well if the above statement is true then I guess we'll have something to ponder over...
But as Cheetah said why would the CAS risk loosing astronomic amounts of investment spent on these pilots to bring them up to world beating standards? And If you really are in the Airforce then what's the morale over there? Does it have anything to do with the hardware or set-up PAf currently have or is it soley a financial predicament?
By the way I got some info- F-16 being realeased in july where as Jf-17 are being handed over in August.

 

[Muradk]

Straight from the horses mouth....just to let you guys know that I am serving in airforce right now!!!Does it make sense now that from where did i hear all this?Hmmmmmmmmmm

I am sure that you heard it from a horses mouth because Tanveer has never said anything like that. PAF spends 1 million dollors per pilot and this figure was in 1993. Which Air Force are you in, If PAF than you should know that when PIA hit the skies majority of its pilots were from PAF in 1971 80% of the Ex-Fighter Pilots came back to serve there country, and after the war they joined PIA again.
In 2005, 2 Flt Lt and one Wing Commander joined PIA.
In 2006, 1 Fl Off, 3 Flt Lt, 2 sqd ldr joined various Airlines. Both Sqd Ldrs joined Emirates.
In 2007 1 Gp Capt joined PIA in March.
And I know this because I served in the Air Froce

 

[Chrome9]

Great post sir, now x-man how are you going to counter Mr MuradK's exellent answer?

 

[Muradk]

Well, well well..things are getting interesting here. Neo...if you use your mind a bit you will know that what i am doing in europe.....in airforce people do travel, they travel a lot, they attend foreign courses , they do go for long studies and they also go for holidays...

MuradK...commercial aviation is just one aspect for which pilots are quitting....you have figures for PIA...can you please also give the figures that how many pilots joined AirBlue since it started?

As far as the CAS statement is concerned...there is no doubt about it.....because I heard it in Risalpur myself..so please stop discussing it that weather he said that or not.....the posting which i made here was to consider the reasons that why so many pilots are ready to leave ....what are the resons behind? Not to discuss that where I am right now or who said what!!!

X-man I have nothing to do with Commercial Aviation, I have spent appox 34 years in PAF and my students are in AHQ . I talk to them atleast once a week And rumours like this do tend to spread in places like the Risalpure. But I asure you there is no problems in PAF and yes we do get so rotten eggs time to time who use PAF to get there flying experience and then they want to leave. The figures I gave you I did;nt know I had to call one of my students in AHQ to get those.

 

[Muradk]

Lets just call it a day because the last thing I want is see is that I am giving clarifications for someone who was kicked out of Risalpure. And for some reason you are in the air force which I doubt it, Why are you still in the Air Froce if it is so bad go join PIA or some International Airline. Again this discussion is pointless.

 

[x_man]

Well MuradK its too late now....you have already given me all the explanations ..
Just tell me one thing....what do you mean when you wrote...''...someone who was kicked out of Risalpure.'' Did I once wrote that I was kicked out? why are you assuming things here for which you have no clue. Shall I also write that you were also kincked out of airforce...Why cant you act your age and write in a sensible mature way? It was absolute unnecessary to write that.

One more thing....did I wrote anywhere that airforce is bad??? I opened this thread to discuss the issue that why pilots are leaving airforce? And instead of discussing that you have started to show your hind side. Please refrain from getting sentimental.

 

[Chrome9]

Well, well well..things are getting interesting here. Neo...if you use your mind a bit you will know that what i am doing in europe.....in airforce people do travel, they travel a lot, they attend foreign courses , they do go for long studies and they also go for holidays...

MuradK...commercial aviation is just one aspect for which pilots are quitting....you have figures for PIA...can you please also give the figures that how many pilots joined AirBlue since it started?

As far as the CAS statement is concerned...there is no doubt about it.....because I heard it in Risalpur myself..so please stop discussing it that weather he said that or not.....the posting which i made here was to consider the reasons that why so many pilots are ready to leave ....what are the resons behind? Not to discuss that where I am right now or who said what!!!

Unlike Sir MuradK, you have no proper introduction on this forum nor can we verify your claims that you are actually in PAF. If you could actually prove yourself then your argument holds some weight, but untill then i'll assume that your neither a member of the PAF nor a credible poster on this forum.

 

[Muradk]

listen Kid I dont take **** from no one specially someone like you. when it come to Air force I am serious about it. I have been on the forum for a long time and never ever said anything bad about IAF because who am I to say anything about them tho I have fought IAF twice. I did'nt get Tamgha-i-Basalat TBT , and TIJ for dancing in front of the Flight Operations. I think I have earned the right to ask any Pakistani if he says anything about PAF.
Son they way you asked your question was very unpatriotic and gave you a simple clarification, you are the one who came up with the senario afterwards.
The horse you are talking is like my son I tought him how to fly and I dont need to show my credentials to prove I was in the Air Force, the Mods have seen enought of my stuff.
And the answere to your question :
I am not saying that we dont have problems we do every one has problems specially when a PIA pilot can make Rs 70,000/- to 500,000/- a month, GDP's look at that and get a little money minded which is not a wrong think, The figues I gave you were the only people who were good in flying but had big influences so PAF let them Go.
Remember this when you are superseded and you have served more than 10 years, you have the right to take LPR and join any company you want to.

 

[Cheetah786]

Well MuradK its too late now....you have already given me all the explanations ..
Just tell me one thing....what do you mean when you wrote...''...someone who was kicked out of Risalpure.'' Did I once wrote that I was kicked out? why are you assuming things here for which you have no clue. Shall I also write that you were also kincked out of airforce...Why cant you act your age and write in a sensible mature way? It was absolute unnecessary to write that.

One more thing....did I wrote anywhere that airforce is bad??? I opened this thread to discuss the issue that why pilots are leaving airforce? And instead of discussing that you have started to show your hind side. Please refrain from getting sentimental.

so instead of playing games why don't you share with us who u are.

you opened this thread to discuss the self created issue.except the last thing you wanna do is discussion.
basically what you are saying is believe me what iam telling you.and thats that

 

[rana]

last month one of my friends had refused by PAF medical board due to a very minor minor ear problem.( PAF medical board said it problem). my friend had cleared by ISSB. he had been weeping for a week. and after that very upset. In Pakistan young people like to join Arm forces. they worked hard to compete for the selection. every year much more people join the competition. how is it possible the person who worked much hard to join and after that got the position thinks to leave, when they are provided very handsome incentives. The respect they earn in public is also an incentive for them. no other profession is respected as much as this.

 

[x_man]

Well Murad K ...it was you who started it by using inapropriate language and getting impolite. If you cant take *** from anybody else then better mind your language next time you decide to write something here....do i make myself clear or you need another kick on your back?You might have win medals in war but you should know that how to behave in peace!!

So guys onto the issue here which probably you all have forgotten....either you can read my first mail or let me refresh your memories. The issue is that lot of young guys are planning to say goodbye to airforce due to one reason or other...primary reason being commercial opportunities outside...when I got commissioned in 1990, things were pretty much different. You could hardly find anyone(except few medically unfit guys) who even thought about quitting.....ADAs were fun..exercises were being looked foward to and deployments were eagerly awaited......but over just 15 years or so....things seem to be very different....that what I feel....youngsters in the squadron seem to have no interest on any activity...now you come acroos sooo many officers who have put releases....now I am not talking about the ones who are unfit but those who have even been instructors in CCS or active ops pilots....I wa talking to one my coursemates in AHQ, and he said that the number of applications for NOC of CPL/PPL and voluntary retirements are so much that airstaff is getting worried now that whats going on.

I have never said anything bad about airforce or intend to leave it in near future...but you guys have taken this discussion into a whole new direction. Muradk thinks he owns this forum and can say whatever he feels like and half of you lot wants to know that who am I.

I am new here and thought that probably guys here really want to duscuss issues here.I hope you guys will remain focus now and lets see some positive comments about the issue which is under discussion.

cheers