Lessons in hate and violence-undercover in a mainstream UK Muslim School

[Roybot]

Like I said before, I don't think that it was intentional.

However the coincidence that all these invaded nations are Muslim-majority countries... certainly looks bad.

Coupled with rising waves of Islamophobia across the world, I don't blame them for being worried.

Islamaphobia is more of a reactionary thing. Look at America pre 9/11, surely not Islamophobic. Even now its not as bad as people make it look like. If Americans were so islamophobic, so many Muslims wouldn't be living in America peacefully and without any problems. Wouldn't people in China look at Uyghurs/Tibetan with suspicion if couple of them decide to crash as 747 into Shanghai tower?

In Britain, its the same thing. Have you heard of EDL? Its probably the most visible right wing org.in Britain. It was formed cause people were sick of these radicals calling for "Shariah law" in Birtain.

The EDL originated from a group known as the "United Peoples of Luton", which itself was formed in response to a March 2009 protest against Royal Anglian Regiment troops returning from the Afghan War[13] organised by the Islamist group Al-Muhajiroun and including members of the group Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah.[14]

Imagine the PLA returning to Beijing after a War, and a bunch of minority people start swearing at your soldiers. How would Chinese react to that? Put yourself into other person's shoes and try to look at things from their perspective.

 

[Spitfighter]

I am sure there are several incidents.

As am I.

And there are far more incidents of Western hate against Muslims, which will be ignored by the media.
And you.

Based on what I've seen, it seems rather unlikely. Here they are preaching hatred against the host population on their very own turf and you wonder why people are reacting?

There is an ideological war going on between extremists of all religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc.).

The way I see it, Christian extremists have been sidelined to laughable proportions.

Hindu extremists exist, but they too have been largely ignored by the population. Sure you'll cite the Babri Masjid example or the Gujrat riots, but the fact that one has to cite decades old examples as 'proof' of extremism says a lot in itself. Furthermore, I can't think of a single state in India that's run by the Bajrang Dal or the SS. The only reason these guys are still around is because they have plenty of poor people to recruit from and because India's 'law enforcement' system is close to non existent.

Arguably, the modern incarnation of this war started when the Zionists fired the first shot by working to establish Israel.
And everybody else followed.

So let me guess, at the heart of all this Islamo-fascism, lies the creation of Israel?

I'm probably going to regret this, but please, enlighten me.

Uh huh. And the fact that all these countries just happened to be majority Muslim and anti-Israel is just a coincidence...

Actually the Taliban are anti-civilization.

 

[Developereo]

Certainly not going to happen by sending their kids to schools run by maniacs such as the one shown in these videos.

No argument there. The parents of those kids are as guilty as the teachers (assuming the parents know what is going on in the classroom).

 

[Spitfighter]

Excellent point Roy Gaurav, I completely forgot about the creation of the EDL.

YouTube - Muslim Extremists Abuse Royal Anglian Troops After Afghanistan Return, Barking- London 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN6TZ6HpheA&feature=related

 

[Sliver]

An example of Western hate mongering

exactly how does posting this reply help in this discussion? Do you want to say that if others are wrong, you can also be wrong? If there is a christian in you community and she said something wrong abt the prophet, she was killed! (Asia bibi). but there are muslims who are in UK, came here as immigrants and talking wrong about the society there and the beliefs there. what should be done to them? They were not even UK citizens to begin with!! who are these people to come and divide a nation on the basis of religion?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Islamaphobia is more of a reactionary thing.

Imagine the PLA returning to Beijing after a War, and a bunch of minority people start swearing at your soldiers. How would Chinese react to that? Put yourself into other person's shoes and try to look at thing from their perspective.

So what, if Islamophobia is a "reactionary" thing? (I would argue otherwise, considering the historical presence of the Western powers in the Middle East).

I have been called racist things by Indians continuously and without mercy, however I don't go to the Indian minorities living in Hong Kong and discriminate/bash them, or even say racist things towards them. There would be a clear balance of power issue, given the overwhelming numbers of Chinese and the very small numbers of Indians here.

I have tried putting myself in Western shoes and yes I'm sure there will be a lot of anger. However that doesn't really excuse Islamophobic behaviour. In the same way that racist attacks against me doesn't mean that it would be right for me to racially abuse Indians in return.

 

[amalakas]

Honestly, there's no point in creating threads like these. You'll either be called an 'Islamophobe' or some apologist will regurgitate the same old story about how it's simply an isolated incident that doesn't represent the whole community.

Frankly speaking, we shouldn't care. It's not going to hurt us one bit (in the long run). When it comes to Indians, we simply don't have this problem because of the kind of people who immigrate (highly skilled professionals) to the west. Let the segregation continue, things will sort themselves out eventually.

perhaps ...but how much innocent blood will have been spilled out of ignorance and stupid teachings of the sort ?

 

[Sliver]

lets try to isolate the incidents. Any form of hate mongereing is bad. It has to be condemned and it cannot be justified in anyways. Neither is Islamophobia justified and nor are the examples showed in the video justified. Please stop pointing fingers at each other.

If the west has islamophobia teachings like these dont really help calming the nerves. Show peace/love like so many other muslims/ Hindus/ buddhists do in America - while practicing their own faiths peacefully - We dont have any problem with them!!

I request the people here to kindly stop condoning any acts of hatred and justify them as a "reactionary" event to something that happened in the past - because then that "event in the past" can be pegged to another event before it. Talking about the past has never gotten us any results. Anything done in bad taste has to be condemned and shunned in the right earnest.

 

[Developereo]

Islamaphobia is more of a reactionary thing.

Not at all; please see below..

Based on what I've seen, it seems rather unlikely.

Islamophobia has been in Europe since the Middle Ages; it never really went away. As far back as Dante Alighieri (in the 13th century) we see Islamophobic literature in Europe. The crusades, the Ottoman empire, the Moors, etc, etc. There was always conflict between Islam and Europe.

In modern times, the Islamophiba has become more sophisticated. Just as racism has become more sophisticated and subtle in the West.

The way I see it, Christian extremists have been sidelined to laughable proportions.

The southern evangelicals practically run the Republican party in the US.

Hindu extremists exist, but they too have been largely ignored by the population. Sure you'll cite the Babri Masjid example or the Gujrat riots, but the fact that one has to cite decades old examples as 'proof' of extremism says a lot in itself. Furthermore, I can't think of a single state in India that's run by the Bajrang Dal or the SS. The only reason these guys are still around is because they have plenty of poor people to recruit from and because India's 'law enforcement' system is close to non existent.

There are threads here that expose how Hindutva fanaticism is growing in India and elsewhere. Certainly the minorities in India are put on notice through periodic massacres to behave or else.

So let me guess, at the heart of all this Islamo-fascism, lies the creation of Israel?

Islamist ideology emerged in the twilight of the colonial era as a resistance movement to European colonialism. Theodor Herzl's Zionist manifesto was also in response to European oppression of Jews. The current mess is the result of the West's deliberate policy of carving up countries to cause problems, compounded by their support for dictators in a kind of proxy colonialism.

Actually the Taliban are anti-civilization.

Doesn't change the fact that target of Western aggression have been majority Muslim countries who are anti-Israel. Given the utter and complete dominance of Zionists in Western (particularly American) media and politics, this is not a coincidence.

 

[Roybot]

So what, if Islamophobia is a "reactionary" thing? (I would argue otherwise, considering the historical presence of the Western powers in the Middle East).

I have been called racist things by Indians continuously and without mercy, however I don't go to the Indian minorities living in Hong Kong and discriminate/bash them, or even say racist things towards them. There would be a clear balance of power issue, given the overwhelming numbers of Chinese and the very small numbers of Indians here.

I have tried putting myself in Western shoes and yes I'm sure there will be a lot of anger. However that doesn't really excuse Islamophobic behaviour. In the same way that racist attacks against me doesn't mean that it would be right for me to racially abuse Indians in return.

Internet forum is not the same thing. There are some Chinese forumers as well who have the choicest things to say about Indians. You cannot equate the reaction of an individual to the reaction of a community. If a bunch of Indians called names to a bigger bunch of Chinese people in China, that situation would end up differently right?

Point is these Muslim radicals are bringing out the worst of the Western people. The closet racists and bigots, who have been suppressed by the voice of the saner majority, now have an agenda to incite the other "multiculturists" against Muslims. And thats exactly what is happening.

 

[Developereo]

exactly how does posting this reply help in this discussion? Do you want to say that if others are wrong, you can also be wrong?

Please read my posts again. I have condemned the Muslim hate mongering.
My point was that this is happening on all sides and I showed the video as evidence of anti-Arab, anti-Muslim hate mongering.

It is always the Indians who keep bringing it up as if it's all one-sided and the other side is innocent.
The Western hate mongering will not stop because it is fuelled by the pro-Israel crowd, among others.
The Islamist hate mongering will not stop as long as Palestine is occupied and Western countries continue to support Muslim dictators in a kind of proxy colonialism.

Point is these Muslim radicals are bringing out the worst of the Western people. The closet racists and bigots, who have been suppressed by the voice of the saner majority, now have an agenda to incite the other "multiculturists" against Muslims. And thats exactly what is happening.

Wrong.
Western racists had been complaining all along -- about Muslims. Hindus, blacks, Chinese, latinos...
The Zionist media has legitimized Islamophobia to channel these people's anger towards one group where it is politically acceptable to be a bigot.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Point is these Muslim radicals are bringing out the worst of the Western people. The closet racists and bigots, who have been suppressed by the voice of the saner majority, now have an agenda to incite the other "multiculturists" against Muslims. And thats exactly what is happening.

OK I think I understand your point somewhat. They are just encouraging the people who are already bigots, to come out and be more vocal.

If a bunch of Indians called names to a bigger bunch of Chinese people in China, that would end up differently right?

Very bad idea.

Though I would say that "violent" racist attacks in China are very rare. They don't want to lose face, shame their families, etc.

 

[jayron]

An example of Western hate mongering

I wouldn't say it is hate mongering. It is more of an analysis of children's perception or what they are trained to think. These analysis are done not to promote hatred but to educate the children.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I wouldn't say it is hate mongering. It is more of an analysis of children's perception or what they are trained to think. These analysis are done not to promote hatred but to educate the children.

Why did these stereotypes exist in the first place though? Why did the children continuously and repeatedly show the same bias?

Surely it is not genetic, so there must be some social factor at play here.

 

[Roybot]

Very bad idea.

See thats what i mean, the scale at which these"anti British" demonstrations goes on Britain, if anything like that happened in our societies, our people would react in a much worse violent way. This is the time for the mainstream Muslims to put an end on these radical Muslims. Cut the fundings to such institutions, and not sponsor the visa of such mullahs who have nothing else to preach but violence and hatred. Portraying yourself as a victim of islamophobia isn't going to help in my opinion.

Though I would say that "violent" racist attacks in China are very rare. They don't want to lose face, shame their families, etc.

Us Indians are very similar in this regards. Fights are a big no no for our families. This time in a Basketball game I got involved in a free for all fist fight. Ended up with a black eye. Came back home got beaten up by mum for getting into a fight.