Leio's PLA military photos (kinds of military equipments)

[cnleio]

Shooting & Hunting, ths their military photos

 

[shy@SJTU]

Based on your logic, North Korea is superior than South Korea or Canada because they launched sat.
No !!! SK has no motivation to develop MRBM or ICBM. They simply saved a lot and hire Russian to launch their sats.

For popular, domestic car and ship building of SK is advanced than China. For example, Daewoo exported millions cars back to 1990s.
Nowaday several Chevrolet designs inherited from SK designs.
It shows us that their manufacturing ability is excellent. Hyundai, Doosan ... also are good brands in construction vehicles.

For aircraft, it's notable that a small in area country like SK could produce Gen 5 and their opportunity to export is quite clear with Indonesian deal. If they don't have any project of domestic aircraft, it's not any surprise, but they have.

Tell me why SK need to develop aircraft engines ? while they could get the license and built themselves like GE F404, F110, T700-701K, LM500, LM2500 gas turbines

First, as I have said before, you are ignorant: China also have a strong domestic car and shipbuilding industry, at least not bad than South Korea. China, of course sells more cars than Korea, and if you denies the quality I have to say because you are too poor to buy good cars. Meanwhile, in quantity China has far exceeded South Korea in ship-building tonnage in 2013, in quality China has designed and built a series of new navy ships and submarines which can be easily seen in this forum, let alone other ships for special uses such as super oil tankers and deep-sea oil drilling platform etc. And all above is actually not important because we are talking about the 5th gen fighters, and Korea has never designed and built a domestic fighter.
Second, Based on your logic, Russia don't have domestic car industries so their engineering ability far more advanced than South Korea? What's more, they even have to hire Russians to launch their satellites, they can not design and manufacture their own Aero-engines, they are very good evidence for discrediting the ability of their industry, and proving that they don't even have a complete industry basis. (If you think hiring someone or buying a licence represents their industrial ability then I have nothing to say about your logic.) You just take a few fields to represent a country's overall industrial ability, it's a typical fallacy of composition.
Third, You are not a expert in industrial areas, and please stop asserting. I don't think you deserve more credit than the former Principal Engineer of Aeromechanics at GE Aviation that took part in the design of GE90-115B. @cnleio What do you think?

 

[BoQ77]

First, as I have said before, you are ignorant: China also have a strong domestic car and shipbuilding industry, at least not bad than South Korea. China, of course sells more cars than Korea, and if you denies the quality I have to say because you are too poor to buy good cars. Meanwhile, in quantity China has far exceeded South Korea in ship-building tonnage in 2013, in quality China has designed and built a series of new navy ships and submarines which can be easily seen in this forum, let alone other ships for special uses such as super oil tankers and deep-sea oil drilling platform etc. And all above is actually not important because we are talking about the 5th gen fighters, and Korea has never designed and built a domestic fighter.
Second, Based on your logic, Russia don't have domestic car industries so their engineering ability far more advanced than South Korea? What's more, they even have to hire Russians to launch their satellites, they can not design and manufacture their own Aero-engines, they are very good evidence for discrediting the ability of their industry, and proving that they don't even have a complete industry basis. (If you think hiring someone or buying a licence represents their industrial ability then I have nothing to say about your logic.) You just take a few fields to represent a country's overall industrial ability, it's a typical fallacy of composition.
Third, You are not a expert in industrial areas, and please stop asserting. I don't think you deserve more credit than the former Principal Engineer of Aeromechanics at GE Aviation that took part in the design of GE90-115B. @cnleio What do you think?

Every single sentence from your post is wrong, except the last one !!!

 

[cnleio]

First, as I have said before, you are ignorant: China also have a strong domestic car and shipbuilding industry, at least not bad than South Korea. China, of course sells more cars than Korea, and if you denies the quality I have to say because you are too poor to buy good cars. Meanwhile, in quantity China has far exceeded South Korea in ship-building tonnage in 2013, in quality China has designed and built a series of new navy ships and submarines which can be easily seen in this forum, let alone other ships for special uses such as super oil tankers and deep-sea oil drilling platform etc. And all above is actually not important because we are talking about the 5th gen fighters, and Korea has never designed and built a domestic fighter.
Second, Based on your logic, Russia don't have domestic car industries so their engineering ability far more advanced than South Korea? What's more, they even have to hire Russians to launch their satellites, they can not design and manufacture their own Aero-engines, they are very good evidence for discrediting the ability of their industry, and proving that they don't even have a complete industry basis. (If you think hiring someone or buying a licence represents their industrial ability then I have nothing to say about your logic.) You just take a few fields to represent a country's overall industrial ability, it's a typical fallacy of composition.
Third, You are not a expert in industrial areas, and please stop asserting. I don't think you deserve more credit than the former Principal Engineer of Aeromechanics at GE Aviation that took part in the design of GE90-115B. @cnleio What do you think?

They trolling China doesn't design a mature domestic jet engine, but never mind others weaker than China ... and become 'far more advanced than China' ... I think we need a doctor, i can't help too much.

 

[shy@SJTU]

Every single sentence from your post is wrong, except the last one !!!

Dude please calm down and be modest, if you have evidence you can discredit my points. Now it's time to call some senior members of this forum to evaluate whether "Every single sentence from my post is wrong, except the last one !!!"
@Deino @cnleio @Beast @SinoSoldier @Blue Marlin

 

[cnleio]

NICE !
News report China type052D VLS cells & command room

 

[Beast]

Its time to fire some cruise missile and YJ-18 ASM.

 

[cnleio]

Its time to fire some cruise missile and YJ-18 ASM.

HQ-9 SAM & Yu-8 ASROC & CJ-10 Cruise & YJ-18 ASM, four can in one cell in type052D VLS

 

[BoQ77]

Dude please calm down and be modest, if you have evidence you can discredit my points. Now it's time to call some senior members of this forum to evaluate whether "Every single sentence from my post is wrong, except the last one !!!"

Can you create another thread about this? I will explain there !!!

 

[cnleio]

China C919 airline

11月4日报道 法国《费加罗报》11月3日刊登韦罗妮克·吉耶马尔的一篇文章，题为《中国能打破空客波音平分天下的局面吗？》。文章摘编如下：
　　11月2日，上海吸引了全球航空业所有名流的眼光。中国商飞公司的C919首次公开露面。这是中国研发的首款干线飞机。作为全球的一个超强大国，中国希望在所有方面都能体现这一点。中国已经成功步入凤毛麟角的航天国家俱乐部，它同样开发了有竞争力的民用核能产业并建设了自有的高铁列车。中国希望让商飞成为全球航空第三大制造商也是合乎这一逻辑的。这个市场现在由空客和波音均分控制，中国不仅希望商飞能满足本国庞大的市场也可以向全球其余地区提供西方飞机的替代产品。C919给中国的梦想插上翅膀，但是打破一直以来垄断飞机制造市场的空客和波音双雄称霸的局面是一个重大挑战。

空客和波音的重要合作伙伴

　　中国航空业并未从零开始。一切要从1916年威廉·波音招募他的首名工程师中国人王助开始。王助为未来的美国航空巨头的首架获得成功的飞机立下功劳，中国同西方真正的合作始于尼克松总统于1972年访华。如今，35家中国企业是波音项目的合作伙伴，大约8000架飞在空中的美国飞机带有中国制造的零部件。波音公司指出：“包括最新型的787‘梦想客机’在内的公司所有机型中都有中国的身影。”波音今年秋天宣布要在中国建设完工工厂和交付中心。
　　在1985年向中国交付首架飞机的空中客车公司同样视中国为关键的合作伙伴。尽管初期遭遇困难，但空客是不会背对中国的。北京同空客的合作在加倍。中国分包商已经走上了欧洲的飞机。2015年，空客在中国产出的营业额已经达到了5亿美元。自2008年以来，空客为当地市场按每年50架A320的规模组装。

北京靠中国商飞改变局面

　　中国打算从分包商跨入到全球性的飞机制造商行列。在2000年代中期，他们的产业认识有了改变。当时中国正致力于研发2002年发起的ARJ21飞机。中国同空客在直升机领域的合作使得中国首次拥有一个新机型的共同开发者的地位。法国一家咨询公司的总裁菲利普·戴尔马表示：“中国人是现实的，他们明白单靠自己远远达不到工业化。C919项目由此诞生。这是和2007年的空客A320机型类似的飞机。中国商飞公司在上海成立，通过合作伙伴而使用西方的技术。”
　　法国赛峰集团为其提供了Leap新型发动机。而美国的伊顿公司、罗克韦尔公司、霍尼韦尔公司、联合技术公司也都是中国商飞的主要合作企业。中国商飞的精力主要集中在概念和最后组装上。法国航空与航天工业协会主席马尔万·拉胡德强调说：“C919有法国、美国、中国的内容。自此以后，设备商将同时向空客、波音和商飞三个组装商供货。”作为空客集团董事总经理的拉胡德还说：“我很高兴看到中国这一项目有助于法国设备商进一步国际化。已经有40家法国设备商落户中国。”
　　北京希望通过中国商飞而复制空客的成功。这将是一次长征。空客并不是一天建成的。1970年，欧洲人为本地市场制造飞机而创立了空客。一开始，空客是一个依托法、德、英和西班牙实力的联营企业。1970年到1995年间，空客的全球市场份额从0％增加到15％。对于在客机飞行市场保持可持续，这个份额太少了。一名美国专家估测：“需要全球30％的份额才能持续生存。”空客通过开发了完整的系列机型（A320、A330、A350、A380）才自2000年代中期达到了和波音平起平坐的地位。

C919是中国雄心的象征

　　可以搭载168名到190名乘客的C919有助于中国人开始在大飞机领域的学习。延迟4年的C919同最新版的A320 neo和737 max相比并未有何创新。一名熟悉中国项目的人士表示：“C919接近20年前制造的首批A320机型。”C919的商业成功还比较微薄：入账400架订单，主要由中国企业订购。仅仅A320 neo就有超过4400架的订单。C919还需要经历载客的安全试飞，预计在2018年到2020年间投入运营。
　　北京忧心于一次可能的坠机将会使得自己的雄心被扼杀于摇篮中，中国民航局还需时间来进行适航认证以放行，但是中国的放行并不意味着C919就能敲开世界天空的大门。中国商飞能否满足欧洲航空安全局和美国联邦航空局在安全方面的要求？
　　拉胡德认为：“中国有着走向全球的使命感。它将会向欧洲和美国提出适航认证。”目前而言，预计2030年销售2000架次的C919将从中国本土起步。这和欧洲人当年开始时类似，在空客没有决定成为全球制造商前也是主要将飞机在欧洲销售。不过，和中国商飞不一样的是，空客有着一个王牌：没有人会质疑欧洲飞机的安全性。

从手艺到工业

　　菲利普·戴尔马认为：“中国人是非常棒的手艺人，但也是糟糕的工业家。”这也可以解释为何大规模量产产品会反复出现质量问题。中国人的确在航天火箭和卫星这样超级复杂的项目上取得成功，这些技术产品非常精密但是每年只生产数个样品，由于客户是国家所以也没有市场压力。中国工程师同样可以成功打造战斗机，不过，上述领域都属于手工范畴，是手工艺。
　　但是，设计并系列制造一架干线飞机，产品的复杂性是随着规模而增长的，产品还需要通过出台繁复的工业程序而面向商业市场，中国需要诞生一个设备商的生态体系。它需要民用发动机、需要驾驶舱、线路、航空电子设备上的专营企业。戴尔马表示：“需要三十年不间断的努力中国才能成功制造一架良好的飞机。欧洲人经历了三代飞机以及多次的挫败才最终发布了配得上A300这个名号的首款商业飞机。而且，欧洲有着技术基础和能力作为依靠。中国则没有。”
　　以支线飞机闻名的加拿大庞巴迪公司在C系列飞机上的挫败显示出撼动空客和波音格局的困难。拉胡德认为：“中国到2025年可以靠C919或衍生品来回应一架航空公司的需求。中国将带着有竞争力的资金组合包走上舞台。”中国人还看得更远。他们不缺政治意愿、不缺钱、不缺工程师用以推动和打造信誉以及开发档次齐全的飞机和服务。从长期角度看，空客和波音都将中国视为严肃对待的对手。不过，双雄将通过未来的飞机保住自己的技术优势。（编译/刘卓）

 

[GS Zhou]

You are wrong about comparison with SOuth Korea engineering ability. They are far more advanced than China, approach Japan leverage.

you are obviously ignorant of engineering topics.

If you are talking about marketing & sales capabilities, you are right, S. Korea is far more advanced than China on advertising their products. And this is also the reason why you think Korea is with much higher engineering capabilities than China.

Just take two examples that most relevant to your daily life: car and mobile phone

A. Car
Hyundai and Kia are definitely very strong players that with global influence, and I highly respect them. But it doesn't mean that they are far advanced than Chinese car makers in terms of vehicle technology.

Take BYD as an example, this Chinese company is global No. 1 or No.2 seller of electric vehicles. Its latest EV model, the PHEV model Tang, is with fascinating features:
- 0~100km/h acceleration time less than 5 seconds
- fuel consumption per 100km less than 2 liters
- electric four-wheel drive for the best off-road performance

What's more important is that Tang is not a showroom car! It already gets excellent market response! Although launched in July this year, it already achieves a sales result at about 5,000 units. Compared to Tesla, although the model has been launched for quite some years, its annual sales is just about 25,000 units!

Could you pls let me know any Hyundai/Kia car that could be compared to the Chinese BYD Tang??

B. Mobile phone
Samsung is a strong mobile phone player! But the Chinese players like Huawei or Xiaomi are definitely in par with Samsung.

Take Huawei as an example, it even get popularity in western Europe! In middle to high end markets (price range from 400 to 500 Euro), Huawei held 24% and 20% of market share in Spain and Italy respectively!

Lets also have a quick look at shipbuilding! It is frequently mentioned by you to dwarf China:
- China is no doubt global largest shipbuilding country, whichever indicators that your look at, be it total production volume, total orders on hand, or new orders won

- Even if we look at the so-called high-tech ships. For example the off-shore platform for oil and natural gas. Haiyang Shiyou 981 (海洋石油981) should not be a new name to you. I guess it should be hated by most Vietnam people. This monster that you hate, is made by China.

 

[cnleio]

China C919 airline, 'Made in China'

 

[cnleio]

"Great White Fleet", from China => Gulf of Aden => Middle East => the Mediterranean => Northern Europe => Portugal => the Atlantic => U.S California

China 052C & 054A task fleet voyage round the world, 11.02 arrived U.S California.

 

[cnleio]

"Great White Fleet", from China => Gulf of Aden => Middle East => the Mediterranean => Northern Europe => Portugal => the Atlantic => U.S California

China 052C & 054A task fleet voyage round the world, 11.02 arrived U.S California.
中国海军152环球航行编队（旅洋II级驱逐舰济南号 DDG152、福池级综合补给舰千岛湖号 AOR886、江凯II级护卫舰益阳号 FFG 548）于当地时间11月2日上午9点抵达美国佛罗里达州杰克逊维尔的梅波特军港进行友好访问，当地华人华侨留学生到码头热情迎接，中国驻美国大使崔天凯也到码头迎接。

 

[cnleio]

"Great White Fleet", from China => Gulf of Aden => Middle East => the Mediterranean => Northern Europe => Portugal => the Atlantic => U.S California

China 052C & 054A task fleet voyage round the world, 11.02 arrived U.S California.
PLAN 152舰艇编队抵达美国访问
　　新华社美国佛罗里达１１月４日电（曾涛 代宗锋）当地时间３日上午，中国海军１５２舰艇编队抵达美国佛罗里达州杰克逊维尔梅波特港，开始对美国进行为期５天的友好访问。这是中国海军舰艇首次访问美国东海岸。
　　访问期间，编队将举行甲板招待会，部分官兵将参加美海军举办的招待会和野餐会。中美双方海军官兵将开展互相参观舰艇和足球、篮球、拔河友谊赛等文体交流活动。访问结束后，双方还将举行联合军事演练。
　　杰克逊维尔是美国佛罗里达州最大的城市，也是美国东南部商业、金融、保险的中心地之一。梅波特港位于杰克逊维尔以东的约翰斯河畔，毗邻大西洋，是美海军第三大水面舰队集中区，也是美海军第四舰队司令部驻地。
　　正在执行环球访问任务的中国海军１５２舰艇编队由导弹驱逐舰济南舰、导弹护卫舰益阳舰、综合补给舰千岛湖舰组成。它们计划访问苏丹、埃及、丹麦、芬兰、瑞典、波兰、葡萄牙、美国、古巴、墨西哥、澳大利亚、东帝汶、印尼等国家，历时５个多月，总航程３万多海里。

Mr Leio adding a word here ... the China Navy ships within 12 sea miles of U.S territory. Thank you very much !