Lebanon to sell outdated aircraft as Air Force eyes new trainers

[aziqbal]

I visited Lebanon in 2004

this was before the Hezbollah war and before Syria pulled out and even before Hariri was assassinated

Israeli jets flew right over Beirut, they came in from the Mediterranean and swopped low over the town centre and South towards Israel , I was shocked and apparently it was normal

if we sell JF17 Block 3 to Lebanon we might as well package one up and send it to Israel to fully inspect and give all the ASEA radar to India

 

[denel]

I think their focus is pretty much Super Mushshak trainers. They should've gotten A-29 Super Tucanos though, I guess they didn't sign the deal. So, that tells us where they're at.

That said, and this isn't specific to Lebanon, but what are your thoughts of a 'defence as a service' type business? So, as our Block-Is age, why not use them for commercial gain by setting up a package. The end-user pays us $250 m a year, and we basically provide an air force -- i.e., fighters, pilots, engineers, maintenance, supplies, etc.

It could be a way to gain entry in markets like Senegal, Sri Lanka, Brunei, Tunisia, Rwanda, a few Latin American states, etc. I think we've got the works: JF-17 Block-I, various UAVs, etc, and can perhaps even set-up a basic IADS using low-cost COTS stuff (that we could design).

You are trying to setup something like Executive Outcomes

 

[HaMoTZeMaS]

Lebanon could potentially be a future JF-17 buyer. Could sell them second hand block Is and replace those with Block 3s.

Selling anything to lebanon means, selling indirectly to Iran.
No one would digest that

 

[Bossman]

The success of Mashak is because Pakistan is not simply selling hardware but a total package that would help a country establish a basic flying training capability for their air forces. This is true in case of Nigeria, Azerbaijan, Qatar but not Turkey. PAF provides the hardware, a full basic training curriculum and they train the trainers. In other words they create an embryonic airforce. This the reason these Mashaks sell for multi million dollars a piece and not a few hundred thousand dollars that the hardware is worth. A little over invoicing for the benefit of some is always there.

In South Africa they have a totally different purpose. They are used to train private pilots for acrobatics. Shows the agility of the plane.

Selling anything to lebanon means, selling indirectly to Iran.
No one would digest that

The Iranian already operate the Mashaks and so do the Saudis and the Qataris and the Omanis and the Syrians and soon the Turks. It seems Mashaks doesn’t care much for political affiliations. We might as well sell it to the Israelis and the Yemenis.

 

[HAIDER]

Selling anything to lebanon means, selling indirectly to Iran.
No one would digest that

They already using Brazilian planes..

 

[MastanKhan]

I think their focus is pretty much Super Mushshak trainers. They should've gotten A-29 Super Tucanos though, I guess they didn't sign the deal. So, that tells us where they're at.

That said, and this isn't specific to Lebanon, but what are your thoughts of a 'defence as a service' type business? So, as our Block-Is age, why not use them for commercial gain by setting up a package. The end-user pays us $250 m a year, and we basically provide an air force -- i.e., fighters, pilots, engineers, maintenance, supplies, etc.

It could be a way to gain entry in markets like Senegal, Sri Lanka, Brunei, Tunisia, Rwanda, a few Latin American states, etc. I think we've got the works: JF-17 Block-I, various UAVs, etc, and can perhaps even set-up a basic IADS using low-cost COTS stuff (that we could design).

Hi,

It is "Yemen" all over written in your post---.

When "defence" is your industry and you don't use it---isn't that a tragedy---.

 

[Yasser76]

Selling anything to lebanon means, selling indirectly to Iran.
No one would digest that

Are you sure?

Is that why the US has supplied Lebanese with

Armed Cessna 208s and Hellfire Missiles
Huey IIs
Raven and Scan Eage UAVs

 

[aliyusuf]

Are you sure?

Is that why the US has supplied Lebanese with

Armed Cessna 208s and Hellfire Missiles
Huey IIs
Raven and Scan Eage UAVs

Curious why the US didn't decimate Iran ... in the recent assassination + missile row.
It is possible that they want a strong bogeyman in Iran so as to keep the Arabs in line and in need for western support & weapons.

 

[Armchair]

I think their focus is pretty much Super Mushshak trainers. They should've gotten A-29 Super Tucanos though, I guess they didn't sign the deal. So, that tells us where they're at.

That said, and this isn't specific to Lebanon, but what are your thoughts of a 'defence as a service' type business? So, as our Block-Is age, why not use them for commercial gain by setting up a package. The end-user pays us $250 m a year, and we basically provide an air force -- i.e., fighters, pilots, engineers, maintenance, supplies, etc.

It could be a way to gain entry in markets like Senegal, Sri Lanka, Brunei, Tunisia, Rwanda, a few Latin American states, etc. I think we've got the works: JF-17 Block-I, various UAVs, etc, and can perhaps even set-up a basic IADS using low-cost COTS stuff (that we could design).

Perfect. This is what is needed but PAF doesn't have people who understands business so it will be hard for them to imagine such a solution. PAF, what makes them and breaks them is that they are fighter jocks, they are focused on that and that alone. Thinking about the business angle will be near impossible for them.

 

[khansaheeb]

Scrap nothing more

We should use them as targets for weapons testing. Take them as part exchange for the Lebanese aircraft.

 

[Imran Khan]

We should use them as targets for weapons testing. Take them as part exchange for the Lebanese aircraft.

Do we have short of older aircrafts ? We have hindreds of such scraps

 

[Yasser76]

Do we have short of older aircrafts ? We have hindreds of such scraps

Yup. Google map Peshawar AFB. Still lots of F-6s/A-5s laying there. Sad sight.

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Israelis would be getting an a*** pain by only the news of something that is Pakistan in Lebanon!

 

[MastanKhan]

Perfect. This is what is needed but PAF doesn't have people who understands business so it will be hard for them to imagine such a solution. PAF, what makes them and breaks them is that they are fighter jocks, they are focused on that and that alone. Thinking about the business angle will be near impossible for them.

Hi,

Thank you for understading and explaining that---. I had for many a years stated that and then got tired because no one understood---.

Car deals need to be made by car salesmen.

 

[Yasser76]

Israelis would be getting an a*** pain by only the news of something that is Pakistan in Lebanon!

While they happily sell almost anything they can make to India in terms of weapons....