Leaked report: Pakistan had 'major failures' during OBL incident

[Jango]

COAS Kayani has to be dishonorably discharged in the wake of this report. From beginning to end - it was his failure the most.

Discharged by whom?

And no, it wasn't his failure the most. It was a collective failure...of the whole security apparatus. Across the board. The political leadership does not go scotch free.

 

[nair]

Discharged by whom?

And no, it wasn't his failure the most. It was a collective failure...of the whole security apparatus. Across the board. The political leadership does not go scotch free.

What are we discussing?????? Failure in stopping the americans or complacency in letting osama live near by a cantonment?????

 

[muse]

Discharged by whom?

And no, it wasn't his failure the most. It was a collective failure...of the whole security apparatus. Across the board. The political leadership does not go scotch free.

Neither Scotch nor vodka free for that matter, The report is very clear whose failure it was "DERELICTION OF DUTY" --- now who do you suopose they may be pointing to? But then again, Iman Taqwa and Jihad, this is their motto, nothing about "Duty"

 

[Argus Panoptes]

COAS Kayani has to be dishonorably discharged in the wake of this report. From beginning to end - it was his failure the most.

It was a collective failure of leadership, not just the COAS's, as the report mentions. And it is quite clear that there has been, and will be, no accountability for any of the players responsible. This is in keeping with our history of failing to hold anyone to account for national failures. What happened after the Hamood-ur-Rahman Commission report? The same will happen after this report, which is to say, absolutely nothing.

 

[Jango]

Neither Scotch nor vodka free for that matter, The report is very clear whose failure it was "DERELICTION OF DUTY" --- now who do you suopose they may be pointing to?

Dereliction of duty was there, I ain't denying it nor is anyone else.

But you should not do selective justice due to some preconceived notions. Justice is blind.

Dereliction of duty was also done by the IB, FIA, Land departments, local authorities, Police and others.

 

[muse]

Dereliction of duty was there, I ain't denying it nor is anyone else.

But you should not do selective justice due to some preconceived notions. Justice is blind.

Dereliction of duty was also done by the IB, FIA, Land departments, local authorities, Police and others.

Keeping preconceived notions in mind, the report points out that the military and her agencies (guess which one) have done such a super job that it has become the single highest priority to being them under civilians control -- it speaks of "governance implosion" and which institution does it hold responsible for this eventuality - after all, if the writ of the govt does nto apply to them, why should it apply to others?

 

[Awesome]

And uey no such thing will happen - if you think about it, Mr. Gen. Kiyani as DG ISI and COAS have been disastrous for Pakistan, however, Pakistan's larger problem is not so much Mr. Gen kiyani but the so called Pakistan Army.

If people are not penalized for screwing up - they will never learn.

Actually this report kind of saves him. It has spread the blame to all areas. It reminds of me Abu Jahl's plan to kill the Prophet, where one assassin from each tribe would part-take in the killing. If there are too many people at fault, then there is nobody at fault.

 

[muse]

If people are not penalized for screwing up - they will never learn.

Actually this report kind of saves him. It has spread the blame to all areas. It reminds of me Abu Jahl's plan to kill the Prophet, where one assassin from each tribe would part-take in the killing. If there are too many people at fault, then there is nobody at fault.

I guess the commission members do not want to be arrested or disappeared - but there is is plenty of blame to go along -- I think it is a long journey for some of us, but they will not be able to escape the conclusion that what ails Pakistan is the Pakistan Army -- I realize that this is painful and counter intuitive -- it's also inescapable.

 

[Jango]

If people are not penalized for screwing up - they will never learn.

Actually this report kind of saves him. It has spread the blame to all areas. It reminds of me Abu Jahl's plan to kill the Prophet, where one assassin from each tribe would part-take in the killing. If there are too many people at fault, then there is nobody at fault.

So do you think only Kayani was responsible for this?

This has resemblance to the Musharraf case, where a whole chain of events preceded the actual outcome.

In an aircrash investigation, the investigators search for the whole sequence of the crash...they often conclude that it was not one system that failed, but a lot of systems. Similarly, it was not only Kayani or Army or ISI which failed, but the whole state apparatus, from left to right.

Making Kayani the scapegoat for it isn't going to do the learning that you are thinking. Instead it will make up even more rumors.
If Kayani is going to be prosecuted, then there are a whole lot of other people who are going to be prosecuted.

... ails Pakistan is the Pakistan Army -- I realize that this is painful and counter intuitive -- it's also inescapable.

Yeah, and the solution to it according to you is making a brand new 600,000 strong Army from scratch!!!

 

[Awesome]

I guess the commission members do not want to be arrested or disappeared - but there is is plenty of blame to go along -- I think it is a long journey for some of us, but they will not be able to escape the conclusion that what ails Pakistan is the Pakistan Army -- I realize that this is painful and counter intuitive -- it's also inescapable.

What ails Pakistan is Pakistanis. Pakistan Army unfortunately has to be filled with Pakistanis.

But this commission should have put the blame on individuals not institutions or something broad like government. Government and Army are being run by Pakistani humans they are not part of some automated program. There should have been a list of people to punish after this. By broadly putting the blame from President to Janitor, its like - ok nothing can be done.

 

[muse]

Yeah, and the solution to it according to you is making a brand new 600,000 strong Army from scratch!!!

Easy - no belligerence allowed. The Army has to be reconstructed, there's no escaping that, but that does not mean starting from scratch - the Army was turned from a professional army into a islamist army - this was done through ideological indoctrination and incentivising an Islamist outlook.

lEt me give you and example of the kinds of problems the Army's ideology causes: The Pakistan Army claims Swat asIn Swat, Pakistan Army adamant on fighting ‘other Taliban’ – The Express Tribune a success,

So what the ideology continues to do is good talib and bad talib -- and this resonates through out our society. If you will note something about Pakistan, which I would suggest is unique, is Pakistanis complete lack of a moral compass -absolutely anything is Ok so long as you can atttach "Islamic" infront of it, it does not have to sense, it does not and indeed cannot be judged on criteria such as good/bad and right/wrong --- This must be reversed and it must start with the Army because as the report poits out, (farcical democracy) that it is the army that is really in charge of security policy

 

[Argus Panoptes]

What ails Pakistan is Pakistanis. Pakistan Army unfortunately has to be filled with Pakistanis.

But this commission should have put the blame on individuals not institutions or something broad like government. Government and Army are being run by Pakistani humans they are not part of some automated program. There should have been a list of people to punish after this. By broadly putting the blame from President to Janitor, its like - ok nothing can be done.

But that is the truth, isn't it? Nothing will be done because nothing can be done. Collective failures get collective punishment sooner or later, if not from within, then from without.

 

[muse]

What ails Pakistan is Pakistanis. Pakistan Army unfortunately has to be filled with Pakistanis.
.

Actually it's their underwear - and unfortunately those underwear are filled with Pakistanis - a real mess we all agree.

 

[muse]

The logic of Collective Action: Public Goods and the Theory of Groups

You guys want names, you want heads to roll or resignations to follow -- I mean that would be the most reasonable thing, right? So Why no resignations? See if el Jefe will not man up, why should anybody else? And unfortunately Mr. Sharif and company know what happens if you **** off this bunch

 

[Parul]

can u give the link


Please

[video]http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4431763.cms[/video]