Latest on missing person case

[Leader]

like I always say without accountability, we would be moving forward, especially without belling this fat cat.

 

[Bratva]

Have I told you the story of a person being presumed as a missing person and later being found out to be hiding in the mountains doing Jihad?

The people who are ID'ed are returned within days, and families are told on most occasions.

Look, I am not justifying this picking of persons, but you have also got to understand that this isn't all that random. There is a legitimate reason that someone is picked up, the agencies don't do it for fun. We are just in a state of dynamic war. Things aren't all that ideal.

Somebody mentioned somewhere else that we should go to UNSC over the OBL raid. Who are we kidding? People really think that UNSC is the just and fair organization which gives justice? In an ideal world yeah. But we aren't in an ideal world.

Yes you told the story, and about bolded statement, I only agree with the first part. Families are not told about their whereabouts until they are released and they return back to their families. Let me narrate a personal experience

My Uncle got picked up by IB once. It was 1 am in the morning , house bell ringed, my cousin went out, there were around 6 people and 3 cultus outside. A person stepped forward and enquired my cousin weather Mr._____ lives in this house and what is your relation with him, my cousin asked them who they were, person showed him his badge and told they were from Special branch and came to take his father for some inquiry and to identify some people and he will be back home in 2-3 hours.

So he came back and woke up his father and his father told him not to tell anyone in home as he will came back soon. After 2-3 hours, he didn't came back, my cousin now really tensed and thinking weather his father got kidnapped by unknown people. He woke up whole house.

So around 3-4 am, they went to local police station and asked if a person was brought here for investigation and they denied nobody was brought here, FIR lodged of his disappearance and the search began, we all cousins got together and decided to comb through as many police stations of lahore to find his whereabouts, Meanwhile after trying everything, we were unsuccessful, but someone we knew, knew a SSP rank police officer, through him we were able to get hold of a SSP who advised us that we should wait for 48 hours because after 48 hours, name of person picked up is entered into their internal system and he would be able to tell us his status then.

So after 48 hours (2 days), He suddenly came back home on rickshaw. What actually happened was, he is businessman, he hired a lorry driver, Lorry driver brother was terror suspect, terror suspect called his brother, call was intercepted, they were unable to apprehend the suspect, they picked up the brother and my uncle instead

My uncle was manhandled, verbally abused, was forced to watch a severe torture been done on several inmates of detention center during captivity and when he was released, he had around 5000 in pocket, they took 4500 rs from him and told him it is for the petrol they burned to pick him up and my Uncle guessed the detention center was near wahgaa border

Lorry driver was released after a week and there were marks of visible torture which suggested he was put under harsh interrogation (torture)

And those 2 days, It was a psychological torture for uncle family and for us and you can imagine what happen to those who are picked up due to their indirect connections to someone who is involved in terrorist activites

 

[Argus Panoptes]

............

My uncle was manhandled, verbally abused, was forced to watch a severe torture been done on several inmates of detention center during captivity and when he was released, he had around 5000 in pocket, they took 4500 rs from him and told him it is for the petrol they burned to pick him up and my Uncle guessed the detention center was near wahgaa border

Lorry driver was released after a week and there were marks of visible torture which suggested he was put under harsh interrogation (torture)

And those 2 days, It was a psychological torture for uncle family and for us and you can imagine what happen to those who are picked up due to their indirect connections to someone who is involved in terrorist activites

Jaan bachee sau lakhoon paye!

As @nuclearpak would suggest, we are in a "dynamic war" so your uncle should be thankful for the "opportunity" given to him to help the agencies in their noble war effort. So what is your complaint here?

 

[Bratva]

Jaan bachee sau lakhoon paye!

As @nuclearpak would suggest, we are in a "dynamic war" so your uncle should be thankful for the "opportunity" given to him to help the agencies in their noble war effort. So what is your complaint here?

Complaint hmmm,,, Let's analyze the psyche of common Pakistani, Do you think common pakistani who is facing loadshedding, inflation,unemployment, rise of prices of every commodity out there will understand truly dynamic war we are in and be able to show patient and cooperating attitude in such a crappy situation?

No he won't, It will create a perception in his mind agency and terrorist are two sides of same coin.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Complaint hmmm,,, Let's analyze the psyche of common Pakistani, Do you think common pakistani who is facing loadshedding, inflation,unemployment, rise of prices of every commodity out there will understand truly dynamic war we are in and be able to show patient and cooperating attitude in such a crappy situation?

No he won't, It will create a perception in his mind agency and terrorist are two sides of same coin.

Whatever his perception are, the average Pakistani knows that uss ney jootay hee khaney hein, chahey yeh log marein yaa woh log. So what he thinks and perceives is not exactly important in the greater scheme of things, is it?

 

[Bratva]

Whatever his perception are, the average Pakistani knows that uss ney jootay hee khaney hein, chahey yeh log marein yaa woh log. So what he thinks and perceives is not exactly important in the greater scheme of things, is it?

Kabhi kabahr app waqai massom si baat kar jatain hain Sir jee

 

[Jango]

Yes you told the story, and about bolded statement, I only agree with the first part. Families are not told about their whereabouts until they are released and they return back to their families. Let me narrate a personal experience
...

Something similar happened with out NCB once, 6 years or so back, at Multan. That time, MI folks came in a white double cabin and took him away at around 3 o clock noon (they told us the purpose and duration). They told us that it would be for one day and they want to do some 'taftish' regarding some incursion of people through the golf course (the NCB also doubled up as a caddy). If you see on GE, Multan Golf Club's wall joins up with civilian population.

The NCB came back the next night. No torture or anything, they did some questioning, tried to use some pressure tactics (look at the thread in Seniors Cafe).

BTW, the story of your uncle proves two things:

1- These 'pick ups' aren't as random as some people make them out to be.

2- They are for a reason.

As you said, he hired a lorry driver whose brother was a terrorist.

Now if you see the Islamabad lawyer killing case, the terrorist fled on a taxi, the intel guys got the taxi number from an eyewitness, they traced the taxi owner to Gujranwala (?), the taxi owner had rented it to someone else and that guy then transported the terrorist to the hospital.

Now in this case, the agencies would have knocked on the door of the taxi owner in Gujranwala, the rent guy...both would have thought something else. In the end, the terrorist got caught. The taxi owner might have been thinking like you, agencies barge into my home and question me, how dare they bla bla bla. But in the end something good happened.

Now who knows maybe your uncle gave some piece of info that was useful to the agencies?

Put yourself in their shoes. They are supposed to treat everyone as a suspect. Let's suppose for one second (just a humble supposition) that your uncle was indeed a friend of the terrorist. Now how would the IB agents would have known? They just treated your uncle as a suspect.

If they question you in an aggressive manner, it doesn't mean they hate you. They just try to get the most honest answer from you by working up your brain.

Now I'll tell you something that happened to me. Albeit in UAE. So it was a weekend and I was coming back from Sharjah to Dubai on foot (Sharjah to Dubai crossing on taxi takes an extra 20 dirhams so I cross the border on foot, ask any Dubai resident). I was standing on a traffic light when a white Kia stopped beside me, there were two Arabs (Emiratis). They told me to get inside. One guy got out, gave me a peek of his ID and got me in. They immediately got my cell phone and switched it off. Then they parked the car somewhere. They then questioned my like which country, name, father, occupation/studies, purpose of being out at night bla bla bla. Formalities over, they got a bit serious. Got a hold of my hand and asked me in an aggressive tone, did you visit Rolla (an area in SHarjah)? I said no. Then he asked some more questions, his tone getting more and more aggressive. Almost as if he was trying to get me make a confession. Then he asked me for my Emirates ID card. He pulled out a handheld gizmo from his bag and inserted the card. All of my history came up there! My recent travel history, shopping etc etc.

He then cleared me off and dropped me near my home. They later told me that there was a robbery in a gadget store done by a tennager gang, the group was seen heading towards Dubai so that's why they picked me up.

Point is, it isn't only in Pakistan that this stuff happens. It happens everywhere. And it happens for a reason, not randomly.

But I agree with you to some extent that these Pakistani interrogation techniques do sometimes get a bit rough and inhumane, depending on the type of person being interrogated.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

See @mafiya, what did I tell you that your uncle should really be grateful for the opportunity given to him to help the noble investigation in this noble war. If he is not grateful he can be given another, bigger opportunity to make him realize that he really really should be grateful.

 

[Jango]

See @mafiya, what did I tell you that your uncle should really be grateful for the opportunity given to him to help the noble investigation in this noble war. If he is not grateful he can be given another, bigger opportunity to make him realize that he really really should be grateful.

Ab yeh baat ko ghumao phirao mat na.

Didn't I mention that all that torture stuff is wrong?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Ab yeh baat ko ghumao phirao mat na.

Didn't I mention that all that torture stuff is wrong?

So what happened to @mafiya 's uncle and his family for two days was torture or investigation? Or both?

 

[Jango]

So what happened to @mafiya 's uncle and his family for two days was torture or investigation? Or both?

Investigation.

Chal yar teri marzi, ISI and Army are enemies of Pakistan, they are going to kill us all, we are doomed, we are doomed, hear people hear, we are going to get picked up and be tortured and die.....!!!! Oh damn, I better get my guns ready because ISI is coming to get me! They are enemies of this country, they need to be pointlessly criticized all the time for no good reason, and since it's fun to criticize them, let's do it. Let's also invite Asma Jehangir to the party what do you think? Better yet, let's invite Hamid Mir! ISI did the Ziarat attack, did you know that? And also the BMC attack. They are so evil, they are traitors. As some genius put it, let's disband the Army and make a new one!

Happy?

Now good night.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Investigation.

Chal yar teri marzi, ISI and Army are enemies of Pakistan, they are going to kill us all, we are doomed, we are doomed, hear people hear, we are going to get picked up and be tortured and die.....!!!! Oh damn, I better get my guns ready because ISI is coming to get me! They are enemies of this country, they need to be pointlessly criticized all the time for no good reason, and since it's fun to criticize them, let's do it. Let's also invite Asma Jehangir to the party what do you think? Better yet, let's invite Hamid Mir! ISI did the Ziarat attack, did you know that? And also the BMC attack. They are so evil, they are traitors. As some genius put it, let's disband the Army and make a new one!

Happy?

Now good night.

Well that escalated quickly! Having a sarcastic meltdown?

Sirjee, meri marzi kithay nahi chaldee. Ethay tuhadi, tey mulk vich ISI dee marzi chaldee hey.

Since you are in the right circles in both, so I wish you pleasant dreams and good night!

 

[BATMAN]

Only, Indian proxy BLA is responsible for the missing persons.
They invite the young men to attend meeting and than force them for militant activities.
When they refuse or know too much, are shot dead by the handlers.
Why not judiciary demand the extradition of wanted Bugti?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@mafiya @nuclearpak @Awesome @Aeronaut : Sirs, any comments? Is the Army above the law as claimed by the MI lawyer, or not?

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Army men can be booked in criminal cases: AG - DAWN.COM

Army men can be booked in criminal cases: AG
Nasir Iqbal

Published 2013-07-13 07:15:35


ISLAMABAD: Attorney General (AG) Muneer A. Malik said in the Supreme Court on Friday that in his independent opinion neither the Pakistan Army Act 1952 nor Pakistan Penal Code/Criminal Procedure Code prohibited registration of a case and initiation of a criminal proceeding against a serving army officer if he misused his authority with mala fide intent.

Citing several court verdicts, the AG argued that the protection to a serving army officer would not be there if he abused his legal authority.

The AG was arguing before a two-judge bench headed by Justice Jawwad S. Khawaja that had taken up an application filed by Abida Malik. She has sought production of her husband Tasif Ali alias Danish who went missing on Nov 23, 2011 and was allegedly picked up by Major Haider of the Military Intelligence (MI).

The matter was reported to the Sadiqabad police station on Dec 5, 2012 and came up for hearing before the Lahore High Court on March 19, 2013 which dismissed it.

Advocate Mohammad Ibrahim Satti, representing the MI, had argued in previous hearings that the armed forces enjoyed a special status in the constitution which protected all of their actions.

He had said that army personnel and a subject of the Army Act could not be investigated or inquired into by any court, including the Supreme Court, or police.

On Friday, Mr Malik argued that any aggrieved person could approach court by filing a habeas corpus petition and that the high courts could issue an order for the recovery of a person in such petitions.

The SC bench asked Additional Attorney General Tariq Khokhar, who is representing the federal government in cases of missing persons, whether the government subscribed to what the attorney general had said. Mr Khokhar sought time to get instruction from the government.

The court rejected a request of Mr Satti for constituting a larger bench to consider the question whether an FIR could be registered against serving army officials and that the court should hear the opinion of the government before making any decision.

It said Mr Khokhar was representing the government in the case and, therefore, it was not necessary to issue a notice to the government.

Referring to the case of Mudassar Iqbal, another missing person, the court expressed displeasure over rude behaviour of an official at the residential coordination office of the United Nations who had kept a senior police official waiting for almost three hours.

At the last hearing on July 10, the court had ordered Lahore City Superintendent of Police Shahzad Waseem Bukhari to inquire about the whereabouts of Mudassir with UN officials.

Mudassar, a shopkeeper of Shadbagh Chowk, Lahore, had left home on Feb 16, 2011 to buy groceries but never returned.

On Sept 8, 2012, a UN Working Group on Enforced Disappearance had referred the matter to the Commission of Inquiry on Enforced Disappearances through a letter, suggesting that Mudassir had been seen in a secret detention centre by several people and his family had been informed about his detention by other people who had earlier been illegally detained.

But the letter did not mention the place or the area where the detention centre was located.

On Wednesday last, SP Bukhari told the court that taking the information provided in the letter as a tangible lead, the police had approached the UN office and met an official named Zaman.

The police was told to route queries through the Foreign Office because UN employees enjoyed diplomatic immunity under the Geneva Convention on Immunity and Privileges-1968.

On Friday the SP informed the court that he had again gone to the UN office in an Islamabad hotel but was kept waiting for almost three hours.

Justice Khawaja asked Additional Attorney General Khokhar to take up the matter with the secretary of foreign affairs and other ministries concerned.

Mr Khokhar said Mr Zaman did not enjoy diplomatic immunity and added that UN officials were required to cooperate with the police official and not to violate the Pakistani law.

Even if UN foreign staff enjoyed immunity, he said, it was waived in the interest of justice under the UN convention.

 

[Tk_90]

^^If the do something wrong, i dont see a reason they can't be booked! But military courts are far more just