Lahore Police Academy crises over | One gunman, five collaborators arrested

[Torpedo]

^^^ Actually you could compare the Elite Force assault on the Training compound with the Indian assault on Nariman House (two terrorists in Nariman vs ten plus at the academy) and still come up with a comparison favorable for the Pakistani effort.

But lets not get into that here.

In Nariman House, most (if not all) of the points above are applicable.

Hence - no comparison please.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A quick comment on the 'aerial firing'. Whether it was professional or not, it made for a great video clip for PR purposes.

The firing, the 'V' signs and the chants of 'Allah-o-Akbar' sent a clear message of victory, commitment (for country and faith) and strong opposition to terrorist elements.

I think the symbolism of what the SF's did after clearing out the building was very significant.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In Nariman House, most (if not all) of the points above are applicable.

I disagree, but we won't continue the comparison here.

We can agree to disagree for now. I am sure someone will start a thread somewhere on this issue in the coming days.

 

[Torpedo]

It's obvious! Afghans & maybe some organizations are being used by our enemies to do all these terrorist acts in Pakistan....india is always involved in all this i'm pretty sure that atleast the fundings are comming from the indian consulates in Afghanistan beside all this all of you noticed the poor indian attitude?? just read their foreign minister statements after the Lahore terrorist act! shame on india

Please, please, please

STOP THIS BS. Share some logic (if you have any).

 

[Torpedo]

I disagree, but we won't continue the comparison here.

We can agree to disagree for now. I am sure someone will start a thread somewhere on this issue in the coming days.

Your wish is my command.

 

[rubyjackass]

^^^ Actually you could compare the Elite Force assault on the Training compound with the Indian assault on Nariman House (two terrorists in Nariman vs ten plus at the academy) and still come up with a comparison favorable for the Pakistani effort.

But lets not get into that here.

Correct me here...
Does numerical superiority matter in such a close combat situation?
THe situation was roughly this for the guys sweeping the rooms.
They know an unknown number of guys are inside. The danger is not widely different whether it i one guy or 10 guys in a close combat situation in a house where you will anticipate max two guys at each corner. Theres simply too less space.
So the terrorists will not get any worse by positioning 10 guys at the same corner.
The prospects of encounter are hence similar... depending upon individual encounters. In fact it will be to the advantage of the stormers if the terrorists were so dumb.

I am least bit interested in who actually was good. I just want to get this point across just pick up on your line of argument.

 

[RescueRanger]

AM, i think everyone will aggree the Arial Firing was a sign of venting anger. I can tell you that at that particular time and moment all the people wanted was blood. Everyone was livid, and it clearly showed in the determination and resolve of the police, rangers and army to end the siege quickly.

The tactics used by SSP Doghar were excellent, by blocking off the terrorists exit route with an APC and using harrasing fire from snipers positioned acorss the mess hall and on the helo really put the pressure on the OPFOR which in turn resulted in panic firing and the terrorists exhausting their supplies very quickly.

I caveat, the manner in which the attack was executed shows that there were no ordinary terrorists, swarming and using distractionary devices is a trademark of AQN. If one thing comes from this, it will be a greater emphais on VIS(Vital Installation Security).

Hopefully.

I also thought that the 1122 guys acted very quickly, in some cases they were inserting IV's in downed officers whilst still under fire, it was an excellent example of coordination between all concerned agencies.

Lapse of security no doubt, but unforgettable levels of cooperation and determination to get the job done. After this incident, at morning tea one of my colleauges was saying (yar ab koam ka jazba bara hai).

We needed somthing like this, these Bastards were starting to look like supermen, finally we have shown that if it breathes it can be choked, stabbed, shot, killed. End of Story... I am sure you can imagine how everyone must have felt, at last we got them, the psychological motivation alone was chilling, never before would you have heard the public cheer for the police.

Atleast these are my two cents.

 

[Bull]

^^^ Actually you could compare the Elite Force assault on the Training compound with the Indian assault on Nariman House (two terrorists in Nariman vs ten plus at the academy) and still come up with a comparison favorable for the Pakistani effort.

But lets not get into that here.

The only difference being that, in Nariman point, they were there to kill and even before the NSG had left from Delhi they had executed the hostages. Not the same in in lahore.

And i also wonder why, the terrorists kept the hostages alive, were they there to negotiate something by holding them hostage ?

 

[Khajur]

^^^ Actually you could compare the Elite Force assault on the Training compound with the Indian assault on Nariman House (two terrorists in Nariman vs ten plus at the academy) and still come up with a comparison favorable for the Pakistani effort.

But lets not get into that here.

Agno,

It took longer time at Nariman house cause of israeli hostages held at gun point.Till end of the first day they kept Rabbi couple alive though badly battered.They even tried negotiate these jew hostages in exchanges of Ajmal Kasab who was captured on the first night of attack itself.There was some pressure from the israeli Govt save their citizens alive and also it took some time evacuate rest three floors of Nariman house which finished by the 2nd night.After the air drop on Nariman house on the 3rd day,when NSG was assured that israeli hostages dead,they stromed the building.

Here the major difference was...at Lahore their were no hostages captured by the terrorists though we were told 800 ppl were present in that compound..If some people had actually been taken as hostages, much time & effort would have been gone in negotiations before the final assualt.

So lets not compare apple & oranges here.

In the attack on indian parliament all five Jaish-e-Muhammad terrorists were shot dead by the security guards with in an hour of the attack in 2001.

 

[uday]

Mahsud is supported by RAW

WEEKLY PULSE

Mulla Omar orders halt to attacks on Pak troops

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

now there is flood of information but you indees have thousands of arguments and have never accepted the evil which all the south asia suffers due to you may it be in balochistan or FATA or in barma or bangladesh or in srilanka

Man!!! i am really proud to be an Indian! i thought only pakisthan is distructing India all this while with terrorsium, good that India too learnt the techinique

 

[Beskar]

A quick comment on the 'aerial firing'. Whether it was professional or not, it made for a great video clip for PR purposes.

The firing, the 'V' signs and the chants of 'Allah-o-Akbar' sent a clear message of victory, commitment (for country and faith) and strong opposition to terrorist elements.

I think the symbolism of what the SF's did after clearing out the building was very significant.

Completely agree!

First of all we must understand this fact that the hostages inside the compound were "Police cadets". Which automatically made the situation a lot more personal for all the Police and Elite force members. It's a natural thing. Exactly why Army and Rangers planned a "Joint Collaboration" with the Police and Elite force. They easily could've taken the entire situation in their own hands but instead we saw a massive joint operation which ultimately lead to a solid victory. It also proved that our "Elite Force Commandos" are just as good as our SSG. After all, they're trained by the SSG anyway

The symbolic chanting of "Allah-o-Akbar", Victory hand signs, and air-firing would serve as a reminder to ALL the wannabe "Future" terrorists, that they are OBSOLETE and NOT welcome on our land.

Here's another thing that I found symbolic. The image I'm posting below clearly shows that our SF personnel are fighting for the cause of peace and faith. They have beards, one of them is also wearing a headband with the word "Allah-ho-Akbar" written on it and they even have the AK's. Point is, these people aren't different in appearance from the people who're fighting a fake war against our state in the name of Islam.

What sets them APART, is their loyalty to Pakistan, their uniform, and their dedication to get RID of the terrorists who're fighting a war against us based on delusional concepts. I'm pretty sure this incident will help realize some of those "Imbeciles" that the force they're fighting against won't back out that easily, And one day, maybe these SAME commandos would be cheering in the EXACT same manner after defeating another group of their delusional "Comrades".

 

[DarkStar]

The only difference being that, in Nariman point, they were there to kill and even before the NSG had left from Delhi they had executed the hostages. Not the same in in lahore.

And i also wonder why, the terrorists kept the hostages alive, were they there to negotiate something by holding them hostage ?

Agno,

It took longer time at Nariman house cause of israeli hostages held at gun point.Till end of the first day they kept Rabbi couple alive though badly battered.They even tried negotiate these jew hostages in exchanges of Ajmal Kasab who was captured on the first night of attack itself.There was some pressure from the israeli Govt save their citizens alive and also it took some time evacuate rest three floors of Nariman house which finished by the 2nd night.After the air drop on Nariman house on the 3rd day,when NSG was assured that israeli hostages dead,they stromed the building.

Here the major difference was...at Lahore their were no hostages captured by the terrorists though we were told 800 ppl were present in that compound..If some people had actually been taken as hostages, much time & effort would have been gone in negotiations before the final assualt.

So lets not compare apple & oranges here.

In the attack on indian parliament all five Jaish-e-Muhammad terrorists were shot dead by the security guards with in an hour of the attack in 2001.

First sort otu between yourselves whether there was a hostage situation at nariman point, or not.

 

[RescueRanger]

Correct me here...
Does numerical superiority matter in such a close combat situation?
THe situation was roughly this for the guys sweeping the rooms.
They know an unknown number of guys are inside. The danger is not widely different whether it i one guy or 10 guys in a close combat situation in a house where you will anticipate max two guys at each corner. Theres simply too less space.
So the terrorists will not get any worse by positioning 10 guys at the same corner.
The prospects of encounter are hence similar... depending upon individual encounters. In fact it will be to the advantage of the stormers if the terrorists were so dumb.

I am least bit interested in who actually was good. I just want to get this point across just pick up on your line of argument.

Max two guys each corner? How so? you are assuming that the OPFOR is so stupid as to not think that possible entry points would be front and rear? allocating resource accordingly.

Placing 2 men on each side of the quadrant would create cross fire not only killing the LEA's but also the terrorists in the process.

Does Numerical Superiority count? Yes it does!, You need to have elements and party's for specific tasks:

Advanced Party
Rear Guard
Crowd Control
Perimiter Control/Access
Recon/Remote Recon Element
Sniper Team (With Observer/Spotter)

You forget that en element when room clearing has to follow its arc's of fire based on potential location or recon based intel. When moving in stack formation breacher will carry responsibility for potential site selection and opt for either dynamic or stealth entry.

There is no point entering a room all guns blazing because the OPFOR could have easily placed a trip wire attached to a crude meat grinder and hey presto your entry element is toast, now you have to send in another element to get the first one out.

Diagram included:



MOUT and CQB is not as simple as walking on a range and firing 5 rounds to get the best MOA or grouping, once the suspect is barricaded the odds are against you already.

Entry to the building was from a elongated stairwell, this is very difficult to negotiate for a assault team, as i am sure you will be aware and appreciate why.

So it is not about who is better and who is not, it is about managing the risk and taking appropriate steps to safeguard your team in an attempt ac hive the mission objectives.

And as far as i am conerned our boys did a damn good job!

 

[Bull]

First sort otu between yourselves whether there was a hostage situation at nariman point, or not.

The hostages were there, alive or not was a speculation when the operation started and hence the op. was slow.

As to settle our difference, even if we contradict as to the status of the hostages our end theory is the same 'op was slow due to the hostages'.

 

[duhastmish]

b.s , i think - our operation was slow and we must agree to this, yes situation were very different for sure, but Its time we learn a thing or two from other forces, and we are doing that by going to Germany. to learn from their special task forces.

3 DAYS for all that shyt was too much, it was a slow process, and lot of life were lost, lack of infrastructure was main reason behind the slow approach by our teams.

we never said we were perfect, there was will to do it but we were lackign in right technique.