Ladakh: No 'Deal' was Struck with China

[acid rain]

@Joe Shearer, you seem to have lost it, calm down, you dont need to fight all of us and call of us names, we get the point that you are highly pissed at everybody, yearning for the so called non existent learned chinese members of this forum trying to impress them by putting us all Indians in their so called places by calling us names. I assure you your efforts has pleased hongwu and the likes.

Here's hoping that you return back to sanity soon.

 

[dbc]

Now that we know that they're seriously annoyed, and have come to a deal with them, the matter is back on the front burner. And we are going to be extra inoffensive, exactly when they need us to be extra inoffensive.

Just curious,did you serve in the Indian military? I assume you did since you've been tagged a professional. The part I've highlighted is not how you deal with a bully. The recent stand off between India and China reminded me of the re-militarization of Rhineland in 1936. When Hitler sent a small force against the advise of General Ludwig Beck and others who fully expected the French to react violently to the act. But to the surprise of the Nazi's the superior French force retreated. Had the French reacted aggressively and forcefully ejected the Germans World War II may have been avoided.

The Doolittle raid or other such events teach us it is important to make an psychological impression on a bully. I'm not sure if India should let China dictate terms to it, it won't end well for India.

This round certainly goes to China, I worry this may embolden China to become more adventurous further east and force the US into a confrontation with China.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just curious,did you serve in the Indian military? I assume you did since you've been tagged a professional. The part I've highlighted is not how you deal with a bully. The recent stand off between India and China reminded me of the re-militarization of Rhineland in 1936. When Hitler sent a small force against the advise of General Ludwig Beck and others who fully expected the French to react violently to the act. But to the surprise of the Nazi's the superior French force retreated. Had the French reacted aggressively and forcefully ejected the Germans World War II may have been avoided.

The Doolittle raid or other such events teach us it is important to make an psychological impression on a bully. I'm not sure if India should let China dictate terms to it, it won't end well for India.

This round certainly goes to China, I worry this may embolden China to become more adventurous further east and force the US into a confrontation with China.

As far as I am concerned, there are some tangible steps to be taken before we are fit to fight a war, let alone a war against China. My point of view has been, and will continue to be that our soldiers are too precious to be risked in unequal war until we have done all that we could to ensure that they are fighting a fair fight. The steps to be taken are straightforward and clearcut, no rocket science involved.

China will get bolder and bolder unless we gear up and confront them. We cannot gear up and confront them while taking decisions at a glacial speed.

@Joe Shearer, you seem to have lost it, calm down, you dont need to fight all of us and call of us names, we get the point that you are highly pissed at everybody, yearning for the so called non existent learned chinese members of this forum trying to impress them by putting us all Indians in their so called places by calling us names. I assure you your efforts has pleased hongwu and the likes.

Here's hoping that you return back to sanity soon.

I have had enough of tolerating posturing amateurs with simply no idea of what they are talking about. Secondly, this has been discussed at length between Cap'n Popeye, Cardsharp and myself months - years ago. Read that exchange before you shoot your mouth off. As far as the Hong Wus of the forum are concerned, I have never concealed the fact that I consider him to be nothing more than your Chinese equivalent.

 

[Bang Galore]

@Joe Shearer

Do you think that the Chinese might have done us a great service by forcibly forcing the politicians to wake up & see the threat? I got the feeling that prior to this incident no matter what the rhetoric, Politicians were dragging their feet on this issue of firming up Indian positions on the LAC. Since the Chinese have reminded them of the threat, do you believe that there will be more urgency in improving our military position there?

 

[Spring Onion]

@Joe Shearer, you seem to have lost it, calm down, you dont need to fight all of us and call of us names, we get the point that you are highly pissed at everybody, yearning for the so called non existent learned chinese members of this forum trying to impress them by putting us all Indians in their so called places by calling us names. I assure you your efforts has pleased hongwu and the likes.

Here's hoping that you return back to sanity soon.

well even Pakistani members respect Joe Shearer but the problem with you Indians majority of internet chest thumbing ones that you guys quickly start emotional attacks against your own learned members when they dont agree with you

@Joe Shearer

Do you think that the Chinese might have done us a great service by forcibly forcing the politicians to wake up & see the threat? I got the feeling that prior to this incident no matter what the rhetoric, Politicians were dragging their feet on this issue of firming up Indian positions on the LAC. Since the Chinese have reminded them of the threat, do you believe that there will be more urgency in improving our military position there?

The Oppoisition you must say. They are point scoring.

if the same politicians were in govt they also would have been observing restrain.

in my personal opinion there will be this urgency which you stated but again equally on the otherside too

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Do you think that the Chinese might have done us a great service by forcibly forcing the politicians to wake up & see the threat? I got the feeling that prior to this incident no matter what the rhetoric, Politicians were dragging their feet on this issue of firming up Indian positions on the LAC. Since the Chinese have reminded them of the threat, do you believe that there will be more urgency in improving our military position there?

Of course.

That is, of course, the flip side of the coin. It is not only China that benefits from re-warming this issue and addressing it, it is we as well. In another post, I have listed 14 things that we could have done - at a comfortable amble, not a gallop - over the last 51 years. If only we had politicians who were a quarter as sincere as other nation's pols.

 

[Bang Galore]

This round certainly goes to China, I worry this may embolden China to become more adventurous further east and force the US into a confrontation with China.

I'm a bit unsure of your assertion that this round went to China. I'm still all at sea figuring out what the Chinese really achieved here. They have jolted sleeping politicians to now see what military strategists have been long pointing out. All this India-China peaceful rise & other fairy tales balloon has been pricked & I'm not sure that Indian politicians will look at China benignly for a very long time. I also see opposition to India's close ties with the U.S. slipping away & a firming up of an enemy status of China both among the people & the government. See also an effect on Chinese trade (skewed in favour of the Chinese) with a more hardline clamping on issues regarding national security matters (Chinese investment in key areas etc, restrictions existing, but till now constantly under pressure to relax). I believe that we will almost certainly see a far more urgent improvement of our positions on the LAC. The Chinese might have ended up doing a great service. There will be a lot fewer voices singing against American "imperialism" and for a China-India alliance (whatever that was supposed to achieve). I simply cannot understand the Chinese logic of staying put as long as they did & giving ample time for the highly vocal Indian media to paint them in the darkest colour possible. Hardly a smart thing to do if China wanted to continue to improve trade & diplomatic ties while making sure that India does not get into any kind of an anti-China alliance. If there were any misgiving about joining hands in such an alliance, there will be a lot fewer voices speaking loudly against it anymore.

 

[Bang Galore]

Of course.

That is, of course, the flip side of the coin. It is not only China that benefits from re-warming this issue and addressing it, it is we as well.

That is my point, what did the Chinese really achieve here. Fire a warning shot & risk facing an enemy duly warned & prepared at a later date? In one single act, the Chinese have made sure that there is not much goodwill left for them in India & what do they think will be the result of that? Too crazy an act for the sake of a few bunkers & some aggressive patrolling me thinks.

 

[Srinivas]

Just curious,did you serve in the Indian military? I assume you did since you've been tagged a professional. The part I've highlighted is not how you deal with a bully. The recent stand off between India and China reminded me of the re-militarization of Rhineland in 1936. When Hitler sent a small force against the advise of General Ludwig Beck and others who fully expected the French to react violently to the act. But to the surprise of the Nazi's the superior French force retreated. Had the French reacted aggressively and forcefully ejected the Germans World War II may have been avoided.

The Doolittle raid or other such events teach us it is important to make an psychological impression on a bully. I'm not sure if India should let China dictate terms to it, it won't end well for India.

This round certainly goes to China, I worry this may embolden China to become more adventurous further east and force the US into a confrontation with China.

Your assertion that this round went to China is not entirely correct mate.

 

[Contrarian]

I agree with you Bang Galore.

I think the Chinese shot themselves in the foot with this move.

This will almost certainly lead to a firm decision on speeding up border infrastructure, particularly border roads and the Mountain Strike Corps. Both these issues have been stuck because of Government apathy and tardy implementation.

 

[Bang Galore]

I agree with you Bang Galore.

I think the Chinese shot themselves in the foot with this move.

This will almost certainly lead to a firm decision on speeding up border infrastructure, particularly border roads and the Mountain Strike Corps. Both these issues have been stuck because of Government apathy and tardy implementation.

As also the mistaken belief that the Chinese can be our close buddies (however idiotic that sounds to many of us). Too many delusional lefties who keep harping on such stuff. I don't believe that even they will be in such a great rush to embrace the Chinese anymore. Sometimes the darnedest things actually turn out to be blessings in disguise.

 

[thinkingcap81]

This round certainly goes to China, I worry this may embolden China to become more adventurous further east and force the US into a confrontation with China.

It has, certainly in the short term. Whether this translates to 'long term' depends on how as a nation we respond. Over the many decades we have demonstrated an acute sense of lack of self-worth --- but i think that this will change though not as fast as many of us would like.

Other than that i think that the opinions of @Bang Galore are quite correct.

Also why would the India-China dynamic majorly affect Sino-US dynamics? Right now India is not that important, unless you are alluding to some future situation where a stronger India again exhibits a weak-kneed attitude.

 

[Sashan]

@Bang Galore - exactly what I was reflecting in other threads.

 

[acid rain]

well even Pakistani members respect Joe Shearer but the problem with you Indians majority of internet chest thumbing ones that you guys quickly start emotional attacks against your own learned members when they dont agree with you



The Oppoisition you must say. They are point scoring.

if the same politicians were in govt they also would have been observing restrain.

in my personal opinion there will be this urgency which you stated but again equally on the otherside too

Chest thumping and emotional attacks? what are you babbling about? I had an issue with him about ridiculing other Indian members and highly underestimating IA defensive capabilities and suggestion that we should give in to chinese demands and cut whatever deal they throw at us, just because we might lose which I am sure will not be acceptable to even the most densest of Pakistani if he was Indian.

and, I have been on this forum long enough to have seen how Pakistanis fight and ridicule each other divided over region, affinity, partylines or religion, so I find it funny that you see a problem here when yours is much more glaring.

 

[Spring Onion]

Chest thumping and emotional attacks? what are you babbling about? I had an issue with him about ridiculing other Indian members and highly underestimating IA defensive capabilities and suggestion that we should give in to chinese demands and cut whatever deal they throw at us, just because we might lose which I am sure will not be acceptable to even the most densest of Pakistani if he was Indian.
and, I have been on this forum long enough to have seen how Pakistanis fight and ridicule each other divided over region, affinity, partylines or religion, so I find it funny that you see a problem here when yours is much more glaring.

1. Listen to Joe he is far better than you and 90% of Indian members in terms of brain and professional understanding.

2. Pakistani do fight and ridcule each others no denying but we dont start personal attacks on a highly professional fellow thats the difference.