Lack of Urdu is reason for Moral Decadence

[Kambojaric]

its one of those well planned farangi sazish that led to this totally defunct collapsed vision less Pakistani society.

As others have pointed out, Urdu's rise to dominance in Pakistan is a direct consequence of the Farangi who sought to reduce the Indus regions ties to the wider Perso-Arabic world and integrate it closer with the Gangetic plains where British politicial dominance had already been established. In fact such was the dominance of the Farsi in the literate communities of the Indus region prior to the Brits that even the Sikhs upon assuming powers had to rely on Muslims and thereby Farsi speakers to carry out beaurcratic duties, meaning Farsi was an official language in their Empire in contrast to Urdu. This does not mean that I am anti-Urdu in any shape or form. In today's context it is a unifying force as it acts as a linguistic bridge between the different communities but lets not forget how the language came to us in the first place.

Moving on to declining moral values, no there is little to no link between the declining usage of formal Urdu and worsening socio-political conditions. What Pakistani society is going through is rapid urbanization and a faltering education system which does not instil in children morals and ethics but rather teaches them the extreme importance of attaining good grades, which eventually will lead to good jobs in the future where they will earn a lot of money. Parents demand their kids get A's so that their future is financially secured but dont tell them off when they litter the streets. Society is running after money simply put. That is the reason.

 

[Ocean]

اردو پر بھیس ہو رہی ہے اور وہ بھی انگریزی میں ،اس سے بڑی ناانصافی اور کیا ہوگی اردو کے ساتھ

Behas kay spellings kisi bhens nay sikhaey thay kya?

It is true that Urdu is more competent language to grasp the human thought more thoroughly than other languages but that is purely due to design

totally disagree ,its a matter of perspective. I do believe some languages have a tendency of being more rich and cultural like for instance if we talk about hindi then ihave even read article by an indian sharing with readers that hindi lacks expressions in describing lot of things. So when we talk about Urdu , punjabi, koshur, sindhi, balochi , pushtoo ,balti , brushaski, shina etc all these languages carry richness and allow the user ability to emot himself extremely well. But if someone will come and say that oh Urdu is more refined or expressive and nuanced language compared to punjabi or other local tongues ;which have been around for hundreds of years with their well developed prose and poetry, literature and folk culture then iwill consider it subjective thought and incorrect.

Also majority paksitani singers and performers who gained global fame and were eagerly heard by people from every skin color whether whites or asians, were punjabi folk or sufi singers like, abida parveen, mehdi hassan,arif lohar, nsurat fateh. These people humbly mentioned in their interviews that their audiences used to include white people. As i can only understand punjabi, urdu in local tongues and lil bit of koshur, iwould say all these languages predate Urdu and have vast amount of development gone into them and are far more rich and expressive, i am sure other regional language speakers would feel same for their own tongues.

Its just that the language that one is well versed in ,he will think its better than the rest. I was always taught urdu before punjabi so i used to find urdu much more stronger but when istarted learning punjabi and koshur i found them extremely expressive and well nuanced.

Actually you are partially right Urdu is not just a langue but a ""THAZEEB" a complete culture .... even here those who claim to be ahle-e-zaban has given up that thazeeb so now we are left with just words speak as a Language known as URDU ....

I think they find the URDU as a culture incompatible with current time ...

yeah so tehzeeb is only in urdu, other languages that have been spoken in pakistan for centuries lacked tehzeeb. What logic that now tehzeeb will be linked with a language which itself has been in use for around 100 years only in modern Pakistani region

At least have courage to address me directly. I don't know when did I ever offer you a lollipop but, in any case I prefer my haters addressing me directly and not like a zanani whispering in someone else's ear. So gather some courage and do tell me what's your problem with me .... you want to have beef with me?

what courage ? I agreed with his comment and remarked openly in ur thread if ihad to hide i would have written it in some remote corner of forum. Need iq implants ? And awww so cute of u to use word "zanani" as a means to insult someone in a thread where he discusses frustrations and moral decadence due to language degradation.

Lemme educate u however much u look down on "zananis" u were born out of a zananis womb, so the day u manage to get pushed out of a mans body, that day show up with use of a genders name to belittle others. Also someone who uses worlds most unimaginably stupid argument that weak command of urdu is the cause behind increasing frustrations , short tempers , moral decadence and maybe even ur bathroom ki broken toonti u ,sound pretty much frustarted urself in ur posts. So going by ur logic iwill suggest improve ur Urdu further it will be therapeutic.

Kya keho may tumhay .......

kya kahoon* may tumhain

 

[El Sidd]

totally disagree ,its a matter of perspective. I do believe some languages have a tendency of being more rich and cultural like for instance if we talk about hindi then ihave even read article by an indian sharing with readers that hindi lacks expressions in describing lot of things. So when we talk about Urdu , punjabi, koshur, sindhi, balochi , pushtoo ,balti , brushaski, shina etc all these languages carry richness and allow the user ability to emot himself extremely well. But if someone will come and say that oh Urdu is more refined or expressive and nuanced language compared to punjabi or other local tongues ;which have been around for hundreds of years with their well developed prose and poetry, literature and folk culture then iwill consider it subjective thought and incorrect.

Also majority paksitani singers and performers who gained global fame and were eagerly heard by people from every skin color whether whites or asians, were punjabi folk or sufi singers like, abida parveen, mehdi hassan,arif lohar, nsurat fateh. These people humbly mentioned in their interviews that their audiences used to include white people. As i can only understand punjabi, urdu in local tongues and lil bit of koshur, iwould say all these languages predate Urdu and have vast amount of development gone into them and are far more rich and expressive, i am sure other regional language speakers would feel same for their own tongues.

Its just that the language that one is well versed in ,he will think its better than the rest. I was always taught urdu before punjabi so i used to find urdu much more stronger but when istarted learning punjabi and koshur i found them extremely expressive and well nuanced.

There are subtle differences and philosophy as expressed in the Punjabi language is somewhat deeper than the Urdu language. But Urdu is easier to communicate efficiently and that was my point.

 

[Suriya]

 

[HRK]

yeah so tehzeeb is only in urdu, other languages that have been spoken in pakistan for centuries lacked tehzeeb.

plz don't interpret it negative where I have said anything about other language ....???

 

[Sugarcane]

I kept asking for one particular harshest word from Urdu .... nobody replied.

Yeah right, If I say someone "Hazoor-e-wala, main nahyat adab ke saath araz karna chahta hon keh app mujhe kisi fahisha ki najaaiz olad maloom hotay hain, ahtraman mujhe aap ko haram ka jana kehnay main bhi koi kabahat nahi", he will surely appreciate my politeness and sweetness.

If you are willing to deny that Urdu has no rich literature, no poetry, no vocabulary, no well established writing style ... I cannot help you, but think that you have a strong bias against Urdu. I have accepted very long ago here on this forum superiority of English over every other language including Urdu, not because of color of skins, wealth etc but because that language holds sole command over all the scientific research and work. I am advocating Urdu being taught as a subject, if you haven't noticed Urdu as an important subject in schools have totally been ignored. Right here on this forum many Pakistanis cannot read write Urdu, you are worried about Punjabi, it was Urdu that helped me develop an understanding of Punjabi, English, Hindko ..... there is a reason the Indians have a different English accent compared to us.

You are one of those wanna be people suffering from inferiority complex who demonize own culture.

 

[Ocean]

Hazoor-e-wala, main nahyat adab ke saath araz karna chahta hon keh app mujhe kisi fahisha ki najaaiz olad maloom hotay hain, ahtraman mujhe aap ko haram ka jana kehnay main bhi koi kabahat nahi", he will surely appreciate my politeness and sweetness.

Hahaha and i will add. Not directed at anyone

"Janab e wala khabees un nafs bhi maloom hotay hain. Janay kis channal kay kothay pay tarbiyyat payi hai kay itni bayghairat, bad zaat aur hadh say giri hui zaleel shakhsiyat kay maalik ban gaey hain"

Ya phir
"Doosron kay kolhay ya azu e khasoosiyah chatnay say aap apni shanakht nahi badal lain gay"

 

[HRK]

Yeah right, If I say someone "Hazoor-e-wala, main nahyat adab ke saath araz karna chahta hon keh app mujhe kisi fahisha ki najaaiz olad maloom hotay hain, ahtraman mujhe aap ko haram ka jana kehnay main bhi koi kabahat nahi", he will surely appreciate my politeness and sweetness.

literally ...........

ahtraman mujhe aap ko haram ka jana kehnay main bhi koi kabahat nahi"

BTW appropriate word will be ...... والدالزنا

 

[Sugarcane]

As others have pointed out, Urdu's rise to dominance in Pakistan is a direct consequence of the Farangi who sought to reduce the Indus regions ties to the wider Perso-Arabic world and integrate it closer with the Gangetic plains where British politicial dominance had already been established. In fact such was the dominance of the Farsi in the literate communities of the Indus region prior to the Brits that even the Sikhs upon assuming powers had to rely on Muslims and thereby Farsi speakers to carry out beaurcratic duties, meaning Farsi was an official language in their Empire in contrast to Urdu. This does not mean that I am anti-Urdu in any shape or form. In today's context it is a unifying force as it acts as a linguistic bridge between the different communities but lets not forget how the language came to us in the first place.

Moving on to declining moral values, no there is little to no link between the declining usage of formal Urdu and worsening socio-political conditions. What Pakistani society is going through is rapid urbanization and a faltering education system which does not instil in children morals and ethics but rather teaches them the extreme importance of attaining good grades, which eventually will lead to good jobs in the future where they will earn a lot of money. Parents demand their kids get A's so that their future is financially secured but dont tell them off when they litter the streets. Society is running after money simply put. That is the reason.

Bold part is the problem not the language, People of western frontier of sub-continent was more educated 150 years ago than today. Anyone interested to understand how imposition of Urdu based system by British crippled the education system in western provinces and change the concept of education from gaining knowledge to character building to materialistic thing must read the research of G.W. Leitner (Founder of Lahore College and Punjab University). We are still suffering, and situation is becoming even worse.

BTW appropriate word will be ...... والدالزنا

That's another problem with Urdu, more "purity" you try to bring in it, more closer to Persian it becomes.

 

[Cookie Monster]

A strange conclusion that struck me right before start of Ramadan. Urdu as a language is rich with politeness and soberness. One who speaks fluent Urdu only, would find it hard to have harsh arguments with his opponent, and be a quarrelsome, unpleasant, arrogant, rude, hot tempered, violent person. I don't know why I feel that one of the reasons for our growing short tempers, lawlessness, and moral decadence is that we have stopped learning and writing Urdu, most of our children know potatoes and tomatoes ..... its one of those well planned farangi sazish that led to this totally defunct collapsed vision less Pakistani society.

By the way the most beautiful art is well "Takhti style" written Urdu words.

@El Sidd @tps77 @H!TchHiker

@Mentee @Signalian @Valar.

Though I do find Urdu to be a beautiful language(it is my mother tongue and one of the first languages I learned to speak while growing up)...I disagree with that assessment.

Urdu can be very formal and respectful but to think that it has a direct relation to a person's behavior would be a bit far fetched bcuz there are a ton of other factors that can effect a person's behavior.

U will find respectful/civilized/good human beings who speak other languages and don't know Urdu at all.

As for Pakistanis being "quarrelsome, unpleasant, arrogant, rude, hot tempered, violent person"...IMO that comes from those who "teach". A "teacher" churns out thousands of students in his lifetime of "teaching" and can leave a lasting legacy. His "teachings" can impact the behavior of "students" in a way that changes them. Here I'm not using the word "teacher" for a school teacher...though they can also have that same kind of impact, I'm talking about hate mongering mullahs and other factors like media/social media, which spreads this hate mongering to an ever bigger audience.

I remember as a child growing up in Pakistan, going to a local mosque every Friday, listening to the Khutba. It was filled with info/lesson about Islam...and then I saw that change. Now almost every mullah is busy declaring others "kafirs", spreading "firqa wariyat"/hate/intolerance. This mindset has taken root in the society. Just like those mullahs, we(everyone) are also convinced about how we r "right" and "others don't know what they are talking about(if they don't agree with us)"

Regardless of the language, if Pakistani ppl changed a few key things about themselves, there will be a monumental change in the society as a whole.
1) Stop worrying about the religion/religious beliefs of others. It is between them and God. Focus on urself instead...instead of trying to make the whole world a "good" Muslim, try to become that urself.
2) During a debate/argument use facts and logic instead of opinions. Have an open mind. Don't arrogantly think that u know all and u can't be wrong. Stay calm if others are unwilling to listen to what u have to say and at worst just agree to disagree.

If ppl did the above then no matter the language they speak, there will be less quarrels/insults/unpleasantness/violence.

On a side note...speaking of "Takhti" style Urdu, as a child I had bad handwriting and so I was taught that kind of "Takhti writing" with the whole "Takhti" and "Qalam" thing

 

[xyxmt]

This is same as calling someone an *** or bitch or even worst is not only tolerated but openly allowed on PDF but God forbid if you call someone Chutia which actually mean stupid...you will be banned.

Can someone name a developed country using English or French or any third language as their primary language...cant think of any

 

[Valar.]

A strange conclusion that struck me right before start of Ramadan. Urdu as a language is rich with politeness and soberness. One who speaks fluent Urdu only, would find it hard to have harsh arguments with his opponent, and be a quarrelsome, unpleasant, arrogant, rude, hot tempered, violent person. I don't know why I feel that one of the reasons for our growing short tempers, lawlessness, and moral decadence is that we have stopped learning and writing Urdu, most of our children know potatoes and tomatoes ..... its one of those well planned farangi sazish that led to this totally defunct collapsed vision less Pakistani society.

By the way the most beautiful art is well "Takhti style" written Urdu words.

@El Sidd @tps77 @H!TchHiker

@Mentee @Signalian @Valar.

I voted Yes. because it's true in a way.

You see, when children start talking, parents teach them about mannerism, politeness, respect, decency, etc. They do it in their own languages and every language is full of them. Next stage, poetry and literature - every language has them, some more some less. The more you practice it, the more you get refined. It's parents job to introduce kids to the beauty of their language through poems and literature and how to polish their skills. You never learn them(or lose), you lose your sophistication.

What makes Urdu so eloquent is that it's like an ocean of words/vocabulary borrowed from different languages known to be the politest and the sweetest languages and combining and presenting them into just one language with rich literature/poems. The more you practice it, the more sophisticated and poetic you get. Lose it, and you lose your charm and sophistication.

 

[Moonlight]

Although i do agree that Pakistanis have forsaken Urdu and that the decline in literature is one of the first markers of a downhill society, however i do not believe that the moral decadence can be explained as such.

The moral decadence is a global phenomena rather than just restricted to Pakistan. But there is a primal link between the language and the manners but that is more to do with how one perceives it rather than project it.

@Moonlight lol eddi aap urdu daan

Tuesday tak ka time den bus Phir apni Urdu se sharf yab karun gi.

Ps: happy Ramadan

 

[El Sidd]

Tuesday tak ka time den bus Phir apni Urdu se sharf yab karun gi.

Ps: happy Ramadan

Ramadan kareem

 

[اشرافیہ نہ]

Behas kay spellings kisi bhens nay sikhaey thay kya?

totally disagree ,its a matter of perspective. I do believe some languages have a tendency of being more rich and cultural like for instance if we talk about hindi then ihave even read article by an indian sharing with readers that hindi lacks expressions in describing lot of things. So when we talk about Urdu , punjabi, koshur, sindhi, balochi , pushtoo ,balti , brushaski, shina etc all these languages carry richness and allow the user ability to emot himself extremely well. But if someone will come and say that oh Urdu is more refined or expressive and nuanced language compared to punjabi or other local tongues ;which have been around for hundreds of years with their well developed prose and poetry, literature and folk culture then iwill consider it subjective thought and incorrect.

Also majority paksitani singers and performers who gained global fame and were eagerly heard by people from every skin color whether whites or asians, were punjabi folk or sufi singers like, abida parveen, mehdi hassan,arif lohar, nsurat fateh. These people humbly mentioned in their interviews that their audiences used to include white people. As i can only understand punjabi, urdu in local tongues and lil bit of koshur, iwould say all these languages predate Urdu and have vast amount of development gone into them and are far more rich and expressive, i am sure other regional language speakers would feel same for their own tongues.

Its just that the language that one is well versed in ,he will think its better than the rest. I was always taught urdu before punjabi so i used to find urdu much more stronger but when istarted learning punjabi and koshur i found them extremely expressive and well nuanced.

yeah so tehzeeb is only in urdu, other languages that have been spoken in pakistan for centuries lacked tehzeeb. What logic that now tehzeeb will be linked with a language which itself has been in use for around 100 years only in modern Pakistani region

what courage ? I agreed with his comment and remarked openly in ur thread if ihad to hide i would have written it in some remote corner of forum. Need iq implants ? And awww so cute of u to use word "zanani" as a means to insult someone in a thread where he discusses frustrations and moral decadence due to language degradation.

Lemme educate u however much u look down on "zananis" u were born out of a zananis womb, so the day u manage to get pushed out of a mans body, that day show up with use of a genders name to belittle others. Also someone who uses worlds most unimaginably stupid argument that weak command of urdu is the cause behind increasing frustrations , short tempers , moral decadence and maybe even ur bathroom ki broken toonti u ,sound pretty much frustarted urself in ur posts. So going by ur logic iwill suggest improve ur Urdu further it will be therapeutic.

kya kahoon* may tumhain

ماشاء اللہ آپ کتنی اچھی رومن لکھتے ہیں ،