Kurulus Osman fans

[Itachi]

Actually, you can search about his family tree, he's neither Greek nor ''Donmeh'', that's something that illogical RTE worshippers claim in the country Ataturk himself build from the dust; and the Greeks, who claim everything we have (our lands, origin, foods, drinks, you name it...) belongs to them, seriously they had no idea about this claim until Erdogan supporters loudly shouted that Ataturk was a traitor who destroyed the holy Ottoman Empire. I don't worship Ataturk like Erdogan is seen as a God by his voters but we had one of the greatest leaders of all time and I highly recommend you to read about his life, his struggles and his ideas. He literally saved a nation that was destined to see genocides and become slaves of others.

If you don't worship Ataturk like some do....then you'll be open to debate about his intentions?

While I do agree with you that Mustafa Kemal did great things for modern day Turkey....he also quashed the spirituality of the Turks by enacting secular ideas.

Not only did he bring secularism into socio-politics of modern day Turkey, he also clamped down hard on Islam in Turkey. No hijabs, forceful banning of hijabs, doing the Adhan & the prayer in Turkish instead of Arabic, abolished the Khilafa, removed the role of the Grand Mufti and more...

You also have to realize what the above and unmentioned actions of Mustafa Kemal did to the future of the Anatolian Turks....I'm sure you have seen the rise in Pan-Turkism and the rise of paganism, animism and other older religions under the guise of Pan-Turkism.

And if you're open to having a historical review, watch the below 10 min video:

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

If you don't worship Ataturk like some do....then you'll be open to debate about his intentions?

While I do agree with you that Mustafa Kemal did great things for modern day Turkey....he also quashed the spirituality of the Turks by enacting secular ideas.

Not only did he bring secularism into socio-politics of modern day Turkey, he also clamped down hard on Islam in Turkey. No hijabs, forceful banning of hijabs, doing the Adhan & the prayer in Turkish instead of Arabic, abolished the Khilafa, removed the role of the Grand Mufti and more...

You also have to realize what the above and unmentioned actions of Mustafa Kemal did to the future of the Anatolian Turks....I'm sure you have seen the rise in Pan-Turkism and the rise of paganism, animism and other older religions under the guise of Pan-Turkism.

And if you're open to having a historical review, watch the below 10 min video:

eclipse-of-the-star-crescent_1009104.png (204×239)

You are free to believe anything you want, but that sentence of ''Eclipse of the Star and Crescent'' may give you an idea of what was planned for us Turks and the Islam without him... I also updated my previous post, check the links in that one too...

And I also don't judge or applaud anyone by watching a Youtube video. A while ago, I also used to think that he was overrated but my opinion changed ever since I started to read about his struggles and ideas. I hope the same thing for you but you're free to believe anything you want. The thing is, I had my life in Turkey which he always gets judget by the right side but the thing is, whenever Turkey gets away from his policies, we only get bckwards instead of improving ourselves...

 

[Itachi]

eclipse-of-the-star-crescent_1009104.png (204×239)

You are free to believe anything you want, but that sentence of ''Eclipse of the Star and Crescent'' may give you an idea of what was planned for us Turks without him... I also updated my previous post, check the links in that one too...
And the thing is, whenever Turkey gets away from his policies, we only get bckwards instead of improving ourselves...

Well, I'm not in support of late stage Ottoman rulers...and I do know that the British and neighboring nations had insidious plans for Turkey. Most of them came into being with pre-World War wars/battle and later on WW1 and WW2....basically the dismembering of Turkey to its independence day boundaries...

Otoh, I do appreciate Mustafa Kemal's actions in modernizing Turkey....but you have to realize....at what cost??

Because there are always a "cost" for such rapid modernization. Like how Russia and later on China, went through their communist revolutions. And how it lead to the downfall of the Soviet Union...

Today, Russia has embraced their Orthodox Christian roots and shed their communist past.

And the thing is, whenever Turkey gets away from his policies, we only get bckwards instead of improving ourselves...

Well, that's because of the sanctions and politics being played against modern day Turkey...

Change has to come, is coming and will come....what type of change is upto modern day Turks.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Well, that's because of the sanctions and politics being played against modern day Turkey...

Change has to come, is coming and will come....what type of change is upto modern day Turks.

Buddy, I am Turkish and I've spent all of my life in Turkey. As I can't have more knowledge about Pakistan than you, you also can't have more knowledge about Turkey than me. I think you've misjudged me by thinking I'm an far-right secularist but I am not, I'm actually quite opposite. ''change has to come, is coming and will come...what type of change is upto modern day Turks'' That's the effect that I was talking about, watching the series of AKP makes these effect on people. Do you really think us Turks are some charecters in mystery novels or some toys? You have your issues dude. And If I wrote that to a Pakistani fella, I'd be banned from this forum forever. I'm trying to be respectful but think about your attitude again brother.

but you have to realize....at what cost??

You can keep living in your dreams but think about this:
Why is that countries like US-Germany-Britain-France-Sweden are all in peace and richness for decades but Countries in the Balkans-M.East-Africa and Asia are always full of wars, terrors, uprisings and instability?No offence but that's why Pakistan is counted as a 3rd world nation. You should change your point of view. You asked me if I was open to debates, but do you?

then you'll be open to debate about his intentions?

If his intentions were destroying Islam, ummah, blah blah... he could've easily do that. Did you do anything for Islam other then accusing the founder of a country who saved millions of muslims from genocide? No. Then stop blaming significant leaders of other countries. You're accusing the founder of my country with nonsenses. If I had showed the same attitude towards Muhammad Ali Jinnah, you would have taken my head off my body. It's apparent that you have personal issues against Ataturk and that's why you're not worth of wasting my time. @waz @The Eagle Bro, can you do what's necessary?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You can keep living in your dreams but think about this:
Why is that countries like US-Germany-Britain-France-Sweden all are in peace and richness for decades but Countries in the Balkans-M.East-Africa and Asia are always full of wars, terrors, uprisings and instability?No offence but that's why Pakistan is counted as a 3rd world nation. You should change your point of view. You asked me if I was open to debates, but do you?

It is a long topic which requires another thread. There was disproportionate development during colonial times and then the havoc wrecked by assassinations of leaders, invssions, and proxy wars.

It is clear that certain countries managed to amass most of the wealth on Earth, and mostly by devious methods of exploitation.

It is not because of our mindset alone, but the successfulness of certain civilizations in war, etc.

Rather than think about the past, we should look to the future to rectify these issues.

 

[Itachi]

Then stop blaming significant leaders of other countries. You're accusing the founder of my country with nonsenses. If I had showed the same attitude towards Muhammad Ali Jinnah, you would have taken my head off my body. It's apparent that you have personal issues against Ataturk and that's why you're not worth of wasting my time.

lol....you got real angry in the end...

And no, you have the right to speak (write) within forum rules. I have nothing against you if you provide sources and facts for your arguments.

Personal anecdotes don't work unfortunately.

If I wrote that to a Pakistani fella, I'd be banned from this forum forever. I'm trying to be respectful but think about your attitude again brother.

Ok...

You should change your point of view.

How can I if you're using accusatory language?

You asked me if I was open to debates, but do you?

I'm pretty open, which is why I respectfully said what I said in the above posts.

It's apparent that you have personal issues against Ataturk and that's why you're not worth of wasting my time.

Yes, I do have issues with Mustafa Kemal. If you want to engage with me further, we can do it another thread since we'll be derailing this one.

@waz @The Eagle Bro, can you do what's necessary?

And what is that?

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

It is a long topic which requires another thread. There was disproportionate development during colonial times and then the havoc wrecked by assassinations of leaders, invssions, and proxy wars.

It is clear that certain countries managed to amass most of the wealth on Earth, and mostly by devious methods of exploitation.

It is not because of our mindset alone, but the successfulness of certain civilizations in war, etc.

Rather than think about the past, we should look to the future to rectify these issues.

That idiot dude is a curse to human mindset. He has issues and no offence but I'm sorry that Pakistan's future is cursed with people like him. Normally everybody would've stopped wasting their time with him. He thinks us Turks are some kind of characters in a mystery novel.

 

[Itachi]

Why is that countries like US-Germany-Britain-France-Sweden are all in peace and richness for decades

Don't forget about colonialism and how wealth was taken from N/S. America, Africa, & Asia...

And you're also forgetting WW1 & WW2....and neo-colonial incursions...

That idiot dude is a curse to human mindset. He has issues and no offence but I'm sorry that Pakistan's future is cursed with people like him. Normally everybody would've stopped wasting their time with him. He thinks us Turks are some kind of characters in a mystery novel or some toys that he could play around.

Lmao no need to be incensed bro...

I merely put forth my ideas, which you disagreed with. If you start name calling and slinging mud....well that's you, not me.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

Don't forget about colonialism and how wealth was taken from N/S. America, Africa, & Asia...

And you're also forgetting WW1 & WW2....and neo-colonial incursions...

And that's why while the westerners were doing these, the others spend their times with nonsenses and later got absulutely wrecked; because they had people like you...

 

[Itachi]

He thinks us Turks are some kind of characters in a mystery novel or some toys that he could play around.

Nope, I never said that lol....now you're just projecting your opinions like facts.

And that's why while the westerners were doing these, the others spend their times with nonsenses and later got absulutely wrecked; because they had people like you...

Lmao ok...

I would have given you a proper history lesson but you're new on PDF and a Turk, who for some reason holds Mustafa Kemal in high regards...

I'll let you slide this time. Enjoy your stay on PDF.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

It is a long topic which requires another thread. There was disproportionate development during colonial times and then the havoc wrecked by assassinations of leaders, invssions, and proxy wars.

It is clear that certain countries managed to amass most of the wealth on Earth, and mostly by devious methods of exploitation.

It is not because of our mindset alone, but the successfulness of certain civilizations in war, etc.

Rather than think about the past, we should look to the future to rectify these issues.

You are right that this topic needs another thread but if the later-dominated nations didn'd had a backward mindset and were open to new things, the history as we know it would've been very different.

Rather than think about the past, we should look to the future to rectify these issues.

That's what I'm trying to say, I'm not trying to defend secularism but (no offence) this dumb **** is stuck in the past with accusing the founder of Turkey (which saved the lives of millions of muslims) with a bunch of nonsense. I don't know the rules of this forum yet but I predict that there are rules for it.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

That idiot dude is a curse to human mindset. He has issues and no offence but I'm sorry that Pakistan's future is cursed with people like him. Normally everybody would've stopped wasting their time with him. He thinks us Turks are some kind of characters in a mystery novel.

He has his own views, but he is my Pakistani brother and I respect him for that.

You are right that this topic needs another thread but if the later-dominated nations didn'd had a backward mindset and were open to new things, the history as we know it would've been very different.

That's what I'm trying to say, I'm not trying to defend secularism but (no offence) this dumb **** is stuck in the past with accusing the founder of Turkey (which saved the lives of millions of muslims) with a bunch of nonsense. I don't know the rules of this forum yet but I predict that there are rules for it.

Your train of thought is very one-sided when it comes to nations of Africa, South and Latin America, Middle East, and Western Asia.

We all have unique challenges, but I think that it has dawned on us how toxic it is to have one overlord sole superpower.

It is a good topic to debate, our ancestors were busy with infighting and caught offguard, then we refused to adopt Western technology due to our pride, eventually they butchered us again and again until we learned to rise up in their environment.

I love Atatürk just as you do, but I would not stop anyone from having his own views, as long as he does so respectfully. I met some FETO people here in the US who equally detest him, although I disagree with those people.

I learned that not all Turks revere Atatürk the same, one of my Turkish Kurdish close friends who loves Turkey and Erdogan was not fan of Atatürk due to the ban on Kurdish language.

@ÇölKaplanı A little late, but welcome to this forum. Any reason in particular why you joined PDF? Do you have some interest in Pakistan?

You will find most Pakistanis overwhelmingly are pro-Turkish and in particular we love Erdogan alot. He has been very vocal for Kashmir and Pakistan, and helped us in Afghanistan too.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

He has his own views, but he is my Pakistani brother and I respect him for that.



Your train of thought is very one-sided when it comes to nations of Africa, South and Latin America, Middle East, and Western Asia.

We all have unique challenges, but I think that it has dawned on us how toxic it is to have one overlord sole superpower.

It is a good topic to debate, our ancestors were busy with infighting and caught offguard, then we refused to adopt Western technology due to our pride, eventually they butchered us again and again until we learned to rise up in their environment.

I love Atatürk just as you do, but I would not stop anyone from having his own views, as long as he does so respectfully. I met some FETO people here in the US who equally detest him, although I disagree with those people.

I learned that not all Turks revere Atatürk the same, one of my Turkish Kurdish close friends who loves Turkey and Erdogan was not fan of Atatürk due to the ban on Kurdish language.

Look, I don't have a one-sided thought, I just gave him his place. I see Pakistani people as my brothers and I like you as a person actually, but I personally hate being stuck with the past and accusing other people with a bunch of nonsense that are known to be false. I hate trolls no matter where they are from or what is their ideology. If tomorrow I see another troll here that is doing defending the Secularism-Nationalism or another thing, I will give them their place too. It's normal that you think me of like that since I'm new here. I think you will know me better over time. I'm not against him having his own views, but the final straw was his personal accusitons and hate/insults of him against the father of my country and I know you'd have done the same things if you were me. I'm not just defending Ataturk here, If another troll comes here and tries to insult Erdogan, I will give him his place too. No one has the right to insult the significant figures of a nation. If he didn't had personal issues against Ataturk and didn't make fun of him, I would've let him have his own opinions. If someone was insulting the Jinnah, you guys would've done the same things too. @waz

 

[Itachi]

A little late, but welcome to this forum. Any reason in particular why you joined PDF? Do you have some interest in Pakistan?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hi-a-newbie-here.658611/

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

@ÇölKaplanı A little late, but welcome to this forum. Any reason in particular why you joined PDF? Do you have some interest in Pakistan?

You will find most Pakistanis overwhelmingly are pro-Turkish and in particular we love Erdogan alot. He has been very vocal for Kashmir and Pakistan, and helped us in Afghanistan too.

Thanks for the welcome. Actually It would take too long for me to write everything in here but you can read my introduction thread.
Hi, a newbie here
I'm not a strict-Ataturk supporter; I'm not a Kemalist but rather a ''Ataturkcu''. ''Kemalist'' people think they are being an-Ataturk supporter with drinking beers and having tattoos. But the '' Ataturkcu'' people try to understand the struggles and the ideas of Ataturk and his brother-in-arms (as you can read a very basic summary of them in my signature) who saved a nation from a nightmare. I'm not stuck in ideologies and defending persons like the most of Turkish population, I'd rather to care about seeing a strong Turkey. This means I'm neither pro-government(Erdogan/AKP) nor the opposition (CHP). You might have thought that I was a Ataturk-worshipper and anti-Erdogan and the Ottoman Empire. But as you can see I have an Ottoman general who defended the mecca in the Great War as my pp. Anyway, this could go on for pages and I'm sure we will have time to discuss these. Thanks for the welcome.