Kunduz Airlift - The Airlift Of Evil by Pakistan

[MilSpec]

 

[Bratva]

Ok, as I pointed out earlier; the usual defense will be each and every source MSNBC, BBC, New yorker, LA times reported this on whim.

Hence next comes, attack the question, attack the source, attack the the existence of the event itself but not answer the reason to airlift Taliban, Al qaueda and ISI operatives from konduz. and Btw how many consulates did you have in konduz that you needed multiple flights over several nights to airlift all of them

Civilian liftoff just over konduz, just when it was a day away from falling ? do the math

I am not trolling here , I am asking a simple hard question, why did pakistanis conduct the air lift of evil? simple;

If you want to comment on tamils in srilanka or MB in bangladesh and India's role, please feel free to open a thread but instead of the usual smoke screen explain the event if you have any insight.

here is your answer

THE PENTAGON, whose satellites and drones are able to detect sleeping
guerrillas in subterranean caverns, claims it knows nothing of these
flights. When asked about the mysterious airlift at a recent Pentagon briefing, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers,
chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, denied knowledge of such flights.
Myers backpedaled a bit, saying that, given the severe geography of
the country, it might be possible to duck in and out of mountain
valleys and conduct such an airlift undetected.
But Rumsfeld intervened. With his talent for being blunt and ambiguous at the same time, he said: “I have received absolutely no
information that would verify or validate statements about airplanes
moving in or out. I doubt them.”


even

 

[Icarus]

If the people picked up by Pakistan were such important Al-Qaeda Commanders and Taliban Operatives, then why has the world failed to highlight and subsequently prove that those commanders were on board? I mean, if they were so important, why were there no names?

I'll tell you why:

1) The scale of the airlift has been exaggerated.
2) The passengers consisted of Pakistan's bureaucracy (Mostly Diplomatic Staff) attached to the Taliban Govt.

The Airlift was misinterpreted by the west, already deficient on facts and portrayed as some sort of Taliban lifeline. It was taken up by Allied authorities with Pakistan and after an exchange of list of passengers. The matter was cleared up and subsequently, never brought up again.

Another day, another conspiracy cleared. Mods may close this thread on this note, if they see fit.

Thank You,

 

[ajtr]

USA was equally guilty of allowing it when it stopped bombing especially for the airlift.USA hand is clearly visible in the kunduz airlift?or was it that kundiz airlift was allowed to evacuate CIA assets from afghanistan before bombing commenced?

 

[Rafael]

If USA controlled Taliban then they would have had Osama.

Haqqanis are killing Pakistani soldiers? I don't think so, they have been saying openly to oppose TTP, which is Pakistani Taliban who are attacking Pakistan. Are you denying a section in Pakistan consider Haqqanis an asset in post ISAF Afghanistan?

I never said USA controlled Taliban. I said they were the ones who created them in the first place along with Pakistan and then left us alone to deal with them. This has been acknowledged by Hillary Clinton on the floor.

There is no one group of Taliban. Some of them are fighting Pakistan and some are busy with their own private war against America. Haqqani network falls in the second category. But if and when Pakistan starts operation against them, they too will start attacking us. I don't deny that there are still some quarters who might think of Haqqanis as an asset, but delaying NW operation has more to do with us not being able to afford another front at this time.

 

[Bratva]

rumsfield doubted the whole press reports. Whats your credibility now sandy? Just beating the same bush of unverified rumours? You can do better than this.

 

[INDIC]

From wikipedia.
Kunduz airlift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Black Widow]

What on earth is this?

Do you know what the taliban before 2001 were?
I think if we did airlift taliban to Pakistan we did the right thing.

The taliban of that time were not meant to be the enemy. They had nothing to do with Al Qaeda or 9/11. The US was evil, instead of a war of reconciliation, we got a war of revenge.

What sealed the deal was when Mr Texas Ranger said 'you are either with us or against us'.

Remember that the Taliban were willing to hand over Osama as long as it was through a second nation. The US refused, bombed al-qaeda, taliban and civilians alike. Indiscriminately.

Now tell me, who is the bad guy?

Utter Lie, This never happen. When USA asked for OSAMA, Taliban started drama (Like Pakistan doing in case of 26/11). Taliban start asking for proof. My dear brother USA is not rule by Kongresy Manmohan Singh. They know how to deal with these kind off ppl.

The truth is Taliban was scared and they were thinking to denounce OBL, It was ISI who told them that USA can not defeat Taliban.

At the end we saw how USA killed many Taliban (Even if they hide under ISI Patloon). How Americans kept there foot on OBL chest and put nickel in his head. Message is clear, who ever go against USA, Americans will do the same..

 

[third eye]

If the people picked up by Pakistan were such important Al-Qaeda Commanders and Taliban Operatives, then why has the world failed to highlight and subsequently prove that those commanders were on board? I mean, if they were so important, why were there no names?

I'll tell you why:

1) The scale of the airlift has been exaggerated.
2) The passengers consisted of Pakistan's bureaucracy (Mostly Diplomatic Staff) attached to the Taliban Govt.

The Airlift was misinterpreted by the west, already deficient on facts and portrayed as some sort of Taliban lifeline. It was taken up by Allied authorities with Pakistan and after an exchange of list of passengers. The matter was cleared up and subsequently, never brought up again.

Another day, another conspiracy cleared. Mods may close this thread on this note, if they see fit.

Thank You,

Please take your mind back to 2002.

Back then Mush & PaK were very very relevant.

Besides this a great deal of dirt has been brushed under the carpet over the last decade - everyone made mistakes.

The fact that a suggestion is being made to close this thread makes one wonder ... why ?

One understands the circumstances that existed then. We are aware that On 21 November 2001, The US air force halted airstrikes on the Northern Afghan city of Kunduz, ostensibly so that Mullah Fazil, the Taliban Commander in the city could organize its surrender, but in fact to allow Pakistani military planes to fly in and rescue the more than one thousand Pakistai soldiers and agents who were fighting alongside al Qaeda in the besieged city. Anyone from al Qaeda with enough influence over the ISI, or anyone who was considered too dangerous to abandon to US interrogators, secured a seat to safety.

I think ppl should be allowed to discuss this.

 

[MilSpec]

1) The scale of the airlift has been exaggerated.
2) The passengers consisted of Pakistan's bureaucracy (Mostly Diplomatic Staff) attached to the Taliban Govt.



Thank You,

Exact Numbers: As Konduz was still in control of taliban and was a day away from falling exact numbers will remain a mystery.

The passengers consisted of Pakistan's bureaucracy

Dear sir, you are a think tank chairman here, have more than 5000 thoughtful posts, war in afghanistan begins in October 2001 with clear cut warnings to pakistan about the begining of bombing raids.

Konduz airlift starts on 21st november; So you want to say that pakistani government waits 42 days after the start of the bombings of afghanistan , and more absurdly waits another 12 days after siege of konduz to evacuate. You are saying pakistan waited till 3 days to fall of konduz, 42 days after the start of a well announced war to evacuate key diplomats of pakistani bureaucracy.

It just seems for the lack of better words "completely absurd"

US state dept dubs it as a double cross by pakistan of airlifting taliban and al qeada leadership along with ISI operatives under the guise of air lift of ISI assets

"The request was made by Musharraf to Bush, but Cheney took charge — a token of who was handling Musharraf at the time. The approval was not shared with anyone at State, including Colin Powell, until well after the event. Musharraf said Pakistan needed to save its dignity and its valued people. Two planes were involved, which made several sorties a night over several nights. They took off from air bases in Chitral and Gilgit in Pakistan's Northern Areas, and landed in Kunduz, where the evacuees were waiting on the tarmac. Certainly hundreds and perhaps as many as one thousand people escaped. Hundreds of ISI officers, Taliban commanders, and foot soldiers belonging to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan and Al Qaeda personnel boarded the planes. What was sold as a minor extraction turned into a major air bridge. The frustrated U.S. SOF who watched it from the surrounding high ground dubbed it "Operation Evil Airlift." Another senior U.S. diplomat told me afterward, "Musharraf fooled us because after we gave approval, the ISI may have run a much bigger operation and got out more people. We just don't know. At the time nobody wanted to hurt Musharraf, and his prestige with the army was at stake. The real question is why Musharraf did not get his men out before. Clearly the ISI was running its own war against the Americans and did not want to leave Afghanistan until the last moment."

 

[notsuperstitious]

I never said USA controlled Taliban. I said they were the ones who created them in the first place along with Pakistan and then left us alone to deal with them. This has been acknowledged by Hillary Clinton on the floor.

There is no one group of Taliban. Some of them are fighting Pakistan and some are busy with their own private war against America. Haqqani network falls in the second category. But if and when Pakistan starts operation against them, they too will start attacking us. I don't deny that there are still some quarters who might think of Haqqanis as an asset, but delaying NW operation has more to do with us not being able to afford another front at this time.

Ok - I wanted to establish the following

1) Taliban were Pakistani proxies
2) For some Pakistanis Taliban are still proxies

The purpose of the thread was to counter the baseless thread regarding India's role in Afghanistan, that even accuses India of drugs trade!!!

My reply to that thread was that India is investing in Afghanistan so that Taliban rule like situation does not arise again, as the land then was used against India by pakistan to recruit and train india targetting terrorists and to carry out anti india ops like the kandahar high jacking.

Hence India's concerns and investments in Afghanistan are genuine and must be pushed forward.

 

[third eye]

This would make interesting reading..

Pakistan air force seen evacuating foreign fighters from Kunduz

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340165/ns/world_news-brave_new_world/t/airlift-evil/

 

[Jungibaaz]

This is very interesting;

When Konduz was about to fall; pakistan air lifts taliban, al queda and ISI operatives, and you term it to be the right thing to do.

There is reason to believe we airlifted some taliban and perhaps even non-combatants.
But Where is the evidence to say we aided Al-Qaeda? Please don't pull the Osama Pakistan card, that one is stupidly overused.

This is the same taliban infamous for their heinous regime which destroyed the afghanistan; indulged in religious extremism; genocide of minorities like the hazaras tajiks and uzbeks.

If you want to go into that debate why not discuss the thnic divide at the time and consider both parties involved and ask yourself why is it that the US supported the Northern alliance and alienated Pukhtun.

And you say airlifting them when they were on the verge of the defeat "it was the right thing to do".

Yes, very good thing to do.
The US would have killed them and for what reason? What did the taliban have to do with the war on terror?

@jungibaaz;

As far as the texas ranger, your respected ex-president/coas on record says, that fighting against taliban was in the interest of Pakistan. During the war and after it he was not overthrown, hence most of your country was onboard. So please dont try to go on the arm twisting by US rhetoric

Great. Now put it into context, what was the situation when he said this?
The US threatened Pakistan in 2004, Musharraf complied.

Also by this time the Taliban were not as they were before 2001. They were looking to develop Afghanistan and bring a stable govt, that's right taliban got rid of a whole lot of the Opium trade, disarmed many Afghans and have one administration. Yes they were extreme, but the war and how it turned out doesn't make any sense. It is also the case that the Taliban before 9/11 continuously tried to maintain good relations with Pakistan. Nor did they ever conduct Al-Qaeda style attacks.

 

[INDIC]

What on earth is this?

Do you know what the taliban before 2001 were?
I think if we did airlift taliban to Pakistan we did the right thing.

The taliban of that time were not meant to be the enemy. They had nothing to do with Al Qaeda or 9/11. The US was evil, instead of a war of reconciliation, we got a war of revenge.

What sealed the deal was when Mr Texas Ranger said 'you are either with us or against us'.

Remember that the Taliban were willing to hand over Osama as long as it was through a second nation. The US refused, bombed al-qaeda, taliban and civilians alike. Indiscriminately.

Now tell me, who is the bad guy?

That's not true, Taliban was never ready to hand over Osama. First they openly refused to hand over Osama and just few days before American attack, Taliban issued the statement,"We have asked Osama bin Laden to leave Afghanistan." but they never accepted to hand over Osama Bin Laden.

 

[Jungibaaz]

When some groups are used as strategic assets the opposing groups become enemies. So as per them some are the good terrorists and some are bad terrorists - The goodness and badness depends on whether the group works for you or against you.

There is no moral code here which says any sort of terrorism is bad but rather it's either helped or opposed on what objectives the group follows.

This is so precious.

So many Indians I've come across, so many who say exactly what you do.
But when you challenge them, their understanding barely scratches the surface of the issue at hand.