Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[Dillinger]

Some people just give up on common sense.
Or may the common sense is not all that common afterall/[/qu

Please note, I have nothing personal against you.
I kill dialogue with dialogue = Convince me or get convinced with HARD facts.
Just by saying Ukraine got, you can not get away that easy.
People want proper answers.
This is open forum.
If I say 2+2 = 5 means people will smack my a*s
Hope you realised by now your own shortcoming on this subject.



Correct!
And the fellow says Ukraine has it all, and India should have gone to only one country = Ukraine.
IMO this is stupid. Even China did not do it, because they know why.

Again, Ukraine does not have "it all". It had blocks, data on specific engine related design and engineering.

There is a glaring difference between copying an engine nut and bolt and gleaning nickle alloy tech to use in your own engine design. The latter of which China has done. Being unable to copy an Ukrainian engine has nothing to do with that. At that rate India's failure to adhere to metallurgical specs for the T-90 barrels would be an indictment of Russia's metallurgical prowess.

 

[narcon]

Again, Ukraine does not have "it all". It had blocks, data on specific engine related design and engineering.

Now that we know that you off your high horse. Let me ask you an additional question.

As per CAG, Kaveri is not flight worthy with many shortcomings which are listed for you to see.

Do you still think Ukraine can overcome them all and present a nice workable engine to Indians?

If your answer is yes - Then please specify every little detail that might pertain to this technical process that a country like Ukraine can use to serve Kaveri to Indian government in silver platter.

Remember you said India should have gone to UKRAINE. The problem between me and your dialogue started from there and still hinges on this crucial country = Ukraine.

If your answer is no.
Then have a good evening, or whatever is left of it.
Please note, no animosity. I dont know you, you don't know me, we are just keyboard tigers here.

 

[Dillinger]

Now that we know that you off your high horse. Let me ask you an additional question.

As per CAG, Kaveri is not flight worthy with many shortcomings which are listed for you to see.

Do you still think Ukraine can overcome them all and present a nice workable engine to Indians?

If your answer is yes - Then please specify every little detail that might pertain to this technical process that a country like Ukraine can use to serve Kaveri to Indian government in silver platter.

Remember you said India should have gone to UKRAINE. The problem between me and your dialogue started from there and still hinges on this crucial country = Ukraine.

If your answer is no.
Then have a good evening, or whatever is left of it.
Please note, no animosity. I dont know you, you don't know me, we are just keyboard tigers here.

I was never on any horse. I specified from the very beginning that they had never developed an engine of their own and only has soviet tech which was left behind. Not a single assertion on my part that they can make an engine for us. Even SNECMA was not going to make an engine for us, they were going to provide metallurgical tech and core design consultancy, which they refused to provide.

AGAIN AND AGAIN I HAVE TRIED TO HAMMER IN TO YOUR HEAD THAT ITS THE TECH BLOCKS, SPECIFIC FORMULAS THEY HAVE THAT WE NEED. NOT FOR THEM TO DESIGN THE ENGINE ITSELF FOR US.

I ALREADY TOLD YOU WITH THE SPECIFIC DETAILS AS TO WHY THE KAVERI CANNOT ACHIEVE THE REQUIRED THRUST, SFC AND WEIGHT IN THE PREVIOUS POST (REFER TO TET AND MATERIAL TECH POST).

YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH UNDERSTANDING WHAT ENGINE TECH IMPLIES. YOU ARE YET TO ANSWER MY TECHNICAL QUESTION. TILL YOU CAN'T YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE SPECIFICS ON OFFER FROM UKRAINE.

 

[narcon]

You said this:

Ukraine does not have "it all"

Before you said this in the following:

critical engine tech = Ukraine

There is only one nation is the world which was willing to part with critical engine tech

Do you know where do you stand?

With you its argumentum ad logicam type.

 

[IND151]

Ukraine is in tatters.
Stop yr (this) dialogue..

Coming to your "Blueprint"
If a nation, never ever made a single jet engine on its OWN, what blueprints are you talking of?
Who would buy such a so called blueprint?




India HAS produced its prototype, something that Sweden has NOT.
Which (Sweden) is more advanced than India.
India needs some crucial help in this engine technology. But certainly not from Ukraine - which has nothing adequate to offer to India to fulfill their deficiency.

Russia YES.
Refine your thinking please.

Ukraine was part of Soviet union and during that time it housed several design bureaus.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...1JQR53MPlwOoSpQxyxIEy9Q&bvm=bv.64764171,d.bmk

I know , the myth of full and complete and absolute transfer of technology .

Only fan boys that too new ones may believe such things.

 

[narcon]

Ukraine was part of Soviet union and during that time it housed several design bureaus.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_design_bureaus_in_Ukraine&ei=9PhMU_voN8m4rgej04CoBg&usg=AFQjCNEPzbL1JQR53MPlwOoSpQxyxIEy9Q&bvm=bv.64764171,d.bmk

That is the common knowledge:
But what good it is when it comes to India/Kaveri is the pertinent question partner...
China is clever than India, they employed 2000 Ukrainians, despite that what they got WRT jet engine?
Zilch-nada-Nothing-ti pota..

Still struggling on the same issue..

 

[he-man]

As always the TRMs will be fabricated out of the country while the design will be ours. Cursed babu cursed effing idiocy in not setting up semi-conductor foundries in time. Can design it but cannot build it!!

Stupid fucks.
Whats the point of an aesa with trm's that are not even fabricated in house?

Babus suck

 

[IND151]

Mirrored Kargil quite a lot in a way. Specially the notion that isolated posts could be defended by a few determined soldiers (irregardless of the fact that they had no established lines of communication) and that the opposition would not retaliate with a significantly larger quantum of force in order to avoid attrition and escalations (sans the whole angle of nuclear overhang).

The thing to note here is that Nehru gets most of the flack for 62, people tend to forget that our then Raksha Mantri and elements in the AHQ were also every bit as responsible for the fiasco.

Although the Henderson report is also buried in the sense that the GOI still considers it to be confidential and top secret ergo it has never actually been released by Indian authorities for public consumption. But yes, the existence of the report and many of its observations have been known by the general defence enthusiasts here for quite some time.

Nice observation.

One wonders why PA didn't learn from 1962 fiasco?

 

[he-man]

That is the common knowledge:
But what good it is when it comes to India/Kaveri is the pertinent question partner...
China is clever than India, they employed 2000 Ukrainians, despite that what they got WRT jet engine?
Zilch-nada-Nothing-ti pota..

Still struggling on the same issue..

U are taking it too far.
No one exactly knows the status of chinese engines especially reuters.

They may showcase an engine tomorrow with better thrust and tbo than al-31f,thats how they work.

So basing ur argument on failure of ukranians to bring any tangible benefit to chinese engine plans would be wrong.

 

[SQ8]

Nice observation.

One wonders why PA didn't learn from 1962 fiasco?

No oversight. Colonial mindset of "bloody civvies".. who are they to teach us about war or question us. That attitude still persists in some from today.

 

[he-man]

@narcon

Nice going man,there was a time I was like u

 

[narcon]

U are taking it too far.
No one exactly knows the status of chinese engines especially reuters.

They may showcase an engine tomorrow with better thrust and tbo than al-31f,thats how they work.

So basing ur argument on failure of ukranians to bring any tangible benefit to chinese engine plans would be wrong.

Your dialogue hinges on "future" as for as China is concerned.
We have not seen anything yet.
Till that time comes.
At least you be quite on this.
Because you just uttered the golden words and belittled reuters - The news agency that sells its news to the world along with Agense france presse and Associate Press by saying the following:

No one exactly knows the status of chinese engines

Now it is the common sense that when a world repute news agency, which writes something that sells worldwide, should have done its own specific research before releasing it to the world population to sink their eyeballs into.

Do some justice to common sense please.

 

[IND151]

@narcon

Nice going man,there was a time I was like u

Narcon is just posting OTs and harassing @Dillinger.

He should not post further on this thread if he has nothing concrete to contribute.

 

[narcon]

He = Dillinger should not post further on this thread if he has nothing concrete to contribute.

This is what I say!

China is much more clever than India, which (India) is ruled by whites and it is an occupied territory of Italia. China does not work that way. They can get the job done right away when they want it, knowing that it CAN be done that way.

China has failed on this single issue of engines. Chinese posters here know it, otherwise they would have been here with some proofs, as they do in other cases.

So all this suggests that Ukraine has no such remedy against Indian Kaveri. Henceforth India did not touch this country.

 

[he-man]

Your dialogue hinges on "future" as for as China is concerned.
We have not seen anything yet.
Till that time comes.
At least you be quite on this.
Because you just uttered the golden words and belittled reuters - The news agency that sells its news to the world along with Agense france presse and Associate Press by saying the following:



Now it is the common sense that when a world repute news agency, which writes something that sells worldwide, should have done its own specific research before releasing it to the world population to sink their eyeballs into.

Do some justice to common sense please.

China is a communist country and u don't expect reuters to know shit about their military.

Whats out has their nod,other stuff no one will ever know.

And for a change do some research before harping on the same stupid assertions.
And lasty don't try to be cocky here,its a defence forum.contribute or shut up