Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA

[he-man]

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS WHILE!*

THAT UKRAINE INHERITED QUITE A BIT OF TECH FROM THE USSR SINCE IT WAS PART OF THE USSR. AGAIN, THE ORIGINAL POINT WAS WHICH COUNTRY HAS ACCESS TO ENGINE TECH AND IS WILLING TO SHARE IT FREELY. NOT WHICH COUNTRY HAS MORE ADVANCED TECH OR BUILDS MORE ENGINES. WHILE THE AMERICANS OR THE FRENCH ARE UNDOUBTEDLY AHEAD OF THE UKRAINIANS THEY ARE UNWILLING TO SHARE EVEN THE TINIEST PORTION OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE, EVEN 80S LEVEL TECH.

ERGO THE POINT THAT NO JV WITH ANY NATION WILL TEACH US HOW TO DESIGN THE HOT SECTION OF THE ENGINE OR FABRICATE THERMAL BARRIER COATINGS ETC.

ITS THE WASHINGTON POST WHICH IS ASSERTING THE POINT YOU PICKED FROM THEIR ARTICLE.

IS SOMETHING CONGENITALLY FLAWED IN TERMS OF COMPREHENSION AS FAR AS YOU'RE CONCERNED?

* "Soviets made A LOT of jet engines among other things, the data/tech/blueprints were left by the Soviets when the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic became plain old Ukraine. Comprende?" (Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA | Page 2)

SIMILARLY, UKRAINE HAS NEVER BUILT A SINGLE LAUNCH VEHICLE OF ITS OWN EITHER YET INDIA (WHICH ACTUALLY HAS A PRETTY LARGE SPACE PROGRAM AND OPERATIONAL LAUNCH VEHICLES) APPROACHED UKRAINE FOR SEMI-CRYO ENGINE TECH.

"This is a request for guidance. Request that the Department provide the U.S. position regarding Ukraine company Yuzhnoye's contract to prepare blueprints for a semi-cryogenic, liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled rocket engine for the Indian Space Research Organization, as detailed below, and especially whether the U.S. would have any objections to fulfillment of the contract."

Cable: 07KYIV2245_a

AGAIN, THIS WAS NOT TECH DEVELOPED BY THE UKRAINIANS BUT RATHER KNOWLEDGE INHERITED FROM THE USSR.

@kbd-raaf @sancho @Abingdonboy @Oscar @Skull and Bones @Gessler @SarthakGanguly Can someone please help this fellow out, I can't make this any simpler than the above. My tumor's acting up again and whispering horrid things to me!

Lol the dude has really messed u up

 

[Dillinger]

Lol the dude has really messed u up

I don't suffer obdurateness in the face of facts easily.

 

[narcon]

I don't suffer obdurateness in the face of facts easily.

We know more or less what Indian deficiency is WRT its jet engine Kaveri.
But, do you know whether Ukraine has that tech to cover Indian A*s on this matter?

 

[Dillinger]

We know more or less what Indian deficiency is WRT its jet engine Kaveri.
But, do you know whether Ukraine has that tech to cover Indian A*s on this matter?

What do you know of the deficiency in the Kaveri program. Care to elaborate?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS WHILE!*

THAT UKRAINE INHERITED QUITE A BIT OF TECH FROM THE USSR SINCE IT WAS PART OF THE USSR. AGAIN, THE ORIGINAL POINT WAS WHICH COUNTRY HAS ACCESS TO ENGINE TECH AND IS WILLING TO SHARE IT FREELY. NOT WHICH COUNTRY HAS MORE ADVANCED TECH OR BUILDS MORE ENGINES. WHILE THE AMERICANS OR THE FRENCH ARE UNDOUBTEDLY AHEAD OF THE UKRAINIANS THEY ARE UNWILLING TO SHARE EVEN THE TINIEST PORTION OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE, EVEN 80S LEVEL TECH.

ERGO THE POINT THAT NO JV WITH ANY NATION WILL TEACH US HOW TO DESIGN THE HOT SECTION OF THE ENGINE OR FABRICATE THERMAL BARRIER COATINGS ETC.

ITS THE WASHINGTON POST WHICH IS ASSERTING THE POINT YOU PICKED FROM THEIR ARTICLE.

IS SOMETHING CONGENITALLY FLAWED IN TERMS OF COMPREHENSION AS FAR AS YOU'RE CONCERNED?

* "Soviets made A LOT of jet engines among other things, the data/tech/blueprints were left by the Soviets when the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic became plain old Ukraine. Comprende?" (Kaveri engine will not power Tejas MK-1 nor AMCA | Page 2)

SIMILARLY, UKRAINE HAS NEVER BUILT A SINGLE LAUNCH VEHICLE OF ITS OWN EITHER YET INDIA (WHICH ACTUALLY HAS A PRETTY LARGE SPACE PROGRAM AND OPERATIONAL LAUNCH VEHICLES) APPROACHED UKRAINE FOR SEMI-CRYO ENGINE TECH.

"This is a request for guidance. Request that the Department provide the U.S. position regarding Ukraine company Yuzhnoye's contract to prepare blueprints for a semi-cryogenic, liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled rocket engine for the Indian Space Research Organization, as detailed below, and especially whether the U.S. would have any objections to fulfillment of the contract."

Cable: 07KYIV2245_a

AGAIN, THIS WAS NOT TECH DEVELOPED BY THE UKRAINIANS BUT RATHER KNOWLEDGE INHERITED FROM THE USSR.

@kbd-raaf @sancho @Abingdonboy @Oscar @Skull and Bones @Gessler @SarthakGanguly Can someone please help this fellow out, I can't make this any simpler than the above. My tumor's acting up again and whispering horrid things to me!

@narcon - Its simple actually. Top tech is zealously guarded by US, France etc. Even Russia would think twice. The reason is they have an use for it.
Ukraine on the other hand has zero use for the tech. Perhaps that's why they are willing to share. Since they are willing to share, we are salivating.

 

[jarves]

The positive side of the news is that AMCA porject is still alive

 

[Genesis]

I think there's too much over simplifying the problem.

India needs a robust manufacturing sector as well as a good education system and economy.

There are reasons China struggled so much for so long even with so much funding. The basic infrastructure is not there. There's no real course that teaches Military tech in college, this needs to be passed down from one generation to the next, so to speak, obviously not like old times, an education is still needed.

Chinese military industry has just reached a point where new comers can be brought under an experienced person's wings, this takes a very long time to achieve. It's not a coincidence our recent hardware are so much more advanced than our earlier models.

There needs to be experience, I seen tons of documentaries on earlier Chinese scientists, no sleep, no idea, just working tirelessly, trying new things, they had to go from scratch, it's a really tough and long transition.

Then there needs to be manufacturing for all the parts, materials needed for testing, and making the thing, this needs the manufacturing sector to flourish.


So pretty much, India needs a great economy to do these things, not a coincidence again that only the US out of all the western countries are developing a fifth generation fighter.

 

[narcon]

Oh my!
Tons of material is written every where on Kaveri's malady.
Its overweight. Lesser thrust to weight ratio and other stuff.
You are kiddo.

Thanks for coming Mista Dillnger!

 

[Dillinger]

The positive side of the news is that AMCA porject is still alive

Barely. Its in cryo statis with funding only trickling through and not much emphasis.

 

[narcon]

@narcon - Its simple actually. Top tech is zealously guarded by US, France etc. Even Russia would think twice. The reason is they have an use for it.
Ukraine on the other hand has zero use for the tech. Perhaps that's why they are willing to share. Since they are willing to share, we are salivating.

What are they selling that India does not have and wants it from Ukaraine as for as the engine is concerned?

 

[jarves]

Oh my!
Tons of material is written every where on Kaveri's malady.
Its overweight. Lesser thrust to weight ratio and other stuff.
You are kiddo.

Thanks for coming!

Dude he is a PDF "Think Tank Analyst".Do you understand what does that mean?? Stop going round and round,take a deep breath and try to understand what he is trying to say.

 

[narcon]

Dude he is a PDF "Think Tank Analyst".Do you understand what does that mean?? Stop going round and round,take a deep breath and try to understand what he is trying to say.

He does not know Kaveri's problem and asking me counter questions. Lol

 

[Dillinger]

Oh my!
Tons of material is written every where on Kaveri's malady.
Its overweight. Lesser thrust to weight ratio and other stuff.
You are kiddo.

Thanks for coming!

I am not asking for a dilettantish exclamation like its over weight or has thrust issues.

Let me bring this to my level, what sort of TET would have to be achieved to get to the required thrust level, what changes (which were made upon the generic 80s and 70s level engine tech by OEMs world over) are required to the compressor stage or the hot sections to achieve the required SFC at the specified operational thrust ratings and the required weight? Be THAT SPECIFIC in your replies. Otherwise any layman who has gone through forums can tell me that its overweight.

Add to that what role does matured TBC tech play in turbine inlet temp., why is the the turbine inlet temp. an important criterion anyway? What are the production engineering challenges faced after the detailed design phase is over.

 

[narcon]

I am not asking for a dilettantish exclamation like its over weight or had thrust issues.

Let me bring this to my level, what sort of TET would have to be achieved to get to the required thrust level, what changes (which were made upon the generic 80s and 70s level engine tech by OEMs world over) are required to the compressor stage or the hot sections to achieve the required SFC and weight? Be THAT SPECIFIC in your replies. Otherwise any layman who has gone through forums can tell me that its overweight.

Reply to my original question:

Does Ukraine have what it takes for Kaveri to be - As India wants it to be?
Increase thrust to weight ratio, which is a prime issue here.

 

[jarves]

He does not know Kaveri's problem and asking me counter questions. Lol

LOL He does not know about Kaveri?? From where you got that?? He understands all the critical things that people people like us can only dream of understanding.Stop questioning his knowledge and be thankful to him that he had the patience of explaining things to you for 3 to 4 pages continously.