Kashmiris concerned by plans for Hindu satellite cities

[FaujHistorian]

My mistake they settled in Poonch not Jammu, but my question is did they leave?

A lot of Hindus and Sikhs were uprooted from PCK and ICK.

Similarly 100s and 1000s of Muslims were uprooted from ICK (Indian Controlled Kashmir).

Ghulam Abbas (Muslim Conference of Kashmir) lost his daughters during that terrible time.

So did 1000s of Sikhs and Hindus (especially Hindu Pandits).

Sad thing is that Hindu Pandits were relatively benign and pretty peaceful folks. It was horrible to kick them out of Kashmir.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

East Punjab (Himachal route) was not used to access Sri Nagar. That is prehaps true for Jammu or the areas further North and East.

Most of the traffic in and out of Sri Nagar Kashmir was through Manshira, Abbotabad, Pindi, Lahore route.

i am aware, my grandmom was from Pindi, they were basically traders, trading to afghanistan, kashmir and amritsar with pindi being the hub for most traders

 

[KingMamba]

Mughal empire rant is history of Islam coming into India, basically your faith coming into south asia



as a religion yes, but it spread rapidly under mughal rule

My religion was in India even during the time of the Prophet himself, Mughals were late arrivals.

That is your wishful thinking, the only Mughal known for forcing conversions was Aurangzeb and he was one of the last of the Mughals. If you go to British era census of Punjab alone in 1881 Muslims made up 47% of Punjabis whereas by the time 1947 came around Muslims had become an absolute majority of 54%. That means even under British rule Islam was continuing to spread.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....

as a religion yes, but it spread rapidly under mughal rule

Kashmir Muslims enjoyed freedom during the period of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh.

And why not. Sikhims during his time was protector of all the religions in Punjab and Kashmir.

Too bad that many Sikh leaders (a minority though) lost that will to protect everyone. And that resulted in horrible atrocities on every side.

However the biggest loss has been for Sikhs. They lost their homes in West Punjab.

Then Indian gov snatched their province and chopped and diced it.

So you see my dear

One must go back to and stick to the fair handedness of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh. The true son of soil.

peace

 

[KingMamba]

Infact even today, the only route to kashmir is from punjab and ladakh from himachal pradesh ( previously part of punjab )

The only real route India has into Kashmir is in the Gurdaspur district of Punjab. That is why it was a controversy when despite Muslims being a majority Radcliffe awarded that district to India.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i am aware, my grandmom was from Pindi, they were basically traders, trading to afghanistan, kashmir and amritsar with pindi being the hub for most traders

Yes there is was a huge trading post/town called Takht Bari near Pindi. Most likely she was from there.

The only real route India has into Kashmir is in the Gurdaspur district of Punjab. That is why it was a controversy when despite Muslims being a majority Radcliffe awarded that district to India.

Yes. Gurdaspur gave access to Kashmir via Poounch road.

Have you been to Pak border in Poonch?

 

[Screambowl]

Sir, your belief that Instrument of accession as signed by Maharaja Hari Singh is the legal basis for India's claim over Kashmir has been invalidated by several legal scholars before. Many scholars while believe that Kashmir should be part of India on ground of instrument of accession, their counter theorists quote the letter attached to the Instrument by Hari Singh himself where he said it will be the people of Kashmir who would have the final say about accession when the military threat is resolved.
Let me clear the fact, that Kashmir will never be given complete Independence by any of the countries;But on paper, if we Indians want to make our own case full proof we have to go for plebiscite. This is why Pakistan never needed an article 370, because their was no paper of accession to them.

Let's not go over dozed with ultra nationalistic jingoism here and discuss the matter with facts rationally.

And I am saying that there is not just Military threat but also demography threat. Both instrument of accession and article 257 of Pakistan promotes plebiscite in kashmir.

Article 257 of Pakistan also says that without the will of Kashmiris, Pakistan cannot define what kind of relations they will pursue with Kashmir. But Pakistan has overruled their article 257 of Pakistani Constitution by deploying Military.

 

[KingMamba]

Yes. Gurdaspur gave access to Kashmir via Poounch road.

Have you been to Pak border in Poonch?

No mate I have not, I have been to Wagah when I was younger though on my first visit to Pakistan.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

My religion was in India even during the time of the Prophet himself, Mughals were late arrivals.

That is your wishful thinking, the only Mughal known for forcing conversions was Aurangzeb and he was one of the last of the Mughals. If you go to British era census of Punjab alone in 1881 Muslims made up 47% of Punjabis whereas by the time 1947 came around Muslims had become an absolute majority of 54%. That means even under British rule Islam was continuing to spread.

it had less presence in India prior to mughal, thats what i have been saying

 

[KingMamba]

it had less presence in India prior to mughal, thats what i have been saying

That is untrue.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Chapter 3: Tribal Areas

Article 257.
Provision relating to the State of Jammu and Kashmir
.
−
When the
people of the State of Jammu and Kashmir decide to accede to Pakistan, the
relationship between Pakistan and the State shall be determined in accordance
with the wishes of the people of that State.

http://www.cpdi-pakistan.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/CONSTITUTION-OF-PAKISTAN.doc.pdf


There is no decision taken by the people of J&K so as according to the constitution of Pakistan, the Presence of Pakistani Military in AJK, Gilgit(Azad Kashmir) is illegal.

Happy sailing sailor. Do tell me when you circle the globe and land onto Article 370 again.

 

[Screambowl]

Happy sailing sailor. Do tell me when you circle the globe and land onto Article 370 again.

Let's discuss article 257 of Pakistan because article 370 comes after 257 in All constitutions

 

[Chak Bamu]

throw out the punjabi populations that was settled in 1970's and then you'll see a game change

What Punjabi population? WTH are you talking about?

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Kashmir Muslims enjoyed freedom during the period of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh.

And why not. Sikhims during his time was protector of all the religions in Punjab and Kashmir.

Too bad that many Sikh leaders (a minority though) lost that will to protect everyone. And that resulted in horrible atrocities on every side.

However the biggest loss has been for Sikhs. They lost their homes in West Punjab.

Then Indian gov snatched their province and chopped and diced it.

So you see my dear

One must go back to and stick to the fair handedness of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh. The true son of soil.

peace

alas, easy for some people to fight for land, when our land has been split up, i guess every community goes through their test of times, and the way sikhs are going, soon Canada will be named punjab

 

[FaujHistorian]

And I am saying that there is not just Military threat but also demography threat. Both instrument of accession and article 257 of Pakistan promotes plebiscite in kashmir.

Article 257 of Pakistan also says that without the will of Kashmiris, Pakistan cannot define what kind of relations they will pursue with Kashmir. But Pakistan has overruled their article 257 of Pakistani Constitution by deploying Military.

Both Indian gov and Pakistani gov forked up in Kashmir.

Even now indian army can pull out of Kashmir, and you will see that ICK Kashmiris will protest daily until Pakistani army pulls out. However when ICK Kashmiris are mistrusted by Indian gov
PCK Kashmiris seek protection from Pak army.

Hope you understand.