Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Cholan]

Let's take this slowly.
Do you honestly believe that any Pakistani infiltrators (which you claim) would be so welcome in Kashmir if the people were happy with India?

who said.. ALL kashmiris welcome Pak infilitrators (i would prefer terrorists..but then..) remember Operation Gilbartar, Kargil., all these misadventures are based on the assumption that..the moment Pak attack., the kashmiri will join with PA.. but it never happened.. learn from the past..

 

[Developereo]

You want it slow....lets make it like its your first time......

Before partition, the Muslims make up 77% of Kashmir, and it is assumed that Maharaja Hari Singh would choose to join Pakistan because of this reason
During Partition, he changes his mind and decides to remain independent
Pakistan and its goons (mix of army and afghan tribesman) attack Kashmir to muscle Hari Singh into ascending to Pakistan
Hari Singh looks to India for help....India lays the condition that Kashmir would have to be integrated into India
Indian army arrives in Kashmir to cleanse it and frees 2/3 of Kashmir past which a cease fire is called
Pakistan and its army under assumptions of a being a "martially superior race" decide to launch operation Gibraltar and muscle Kashmir out of India.....unsuccessfully leading to the '65 war....
Realizing that taking Kashmir from India is not an option militarily, in the 1980's, Pakistan decides to send militants(Pakistani citizens from ***), train unemployed/fanatical/easily malleable Kashmiri youth to start an insurgency, and fight the state.....

Pakistan disputes the details as you have stated. Our contention is that Pakistan was invited in by the people of Kashmir.

why arent you doing the same in NWFP or Baluchistan??......

I agree with you on this. We mistreated the Bengalis and India took advantage of the situation. Same thing is happening in Balochistan and Sarhad. This is a lesson that Pakistan never seems to learn.

so what do you think Pakistan is going to offer the Kashmiri's that India wont???

It is not up to me to offer. The Kashmiri people obviously feel they would be better off with Pakistan.

Also, by saying things like "700,000 strong brutal occupation force that engages in murder, rape and torture on a regular basis"....isnt going to make it real....I will give you that some indisciplined troops make mistakes...but dont make it seem like its a state policy and that IA has a schedule where they decide that "chalo its thursday....aaj kisi ka rape karna hai....phir kisi ki bund phadte hain".......

When you place 700,000 troops far from home, crimes like rape will happen. But extrajudicial killings and torture are not sporadic, individual actions. These have to be ordered.

My advice to Pakistan is ....if they truly care about the Kashmiri's...let there be a decade of peace where we can develop Kashmir.....let the Kashmiri's also expirience the growing wealth of India....and even then if they want to join Pakistan (which I doubt they do even today...but for your sake lets say its true).....we can hold talks.....

It's not Pakistanis you need to convince. It is the Kashmiris.

 

[Developereo]

Umm.. so the limits and number of people are standards set by You.. as per your convenient.., IF thousand people ask for help then its okay.. if 950 people ask for help then..NO... all this number standards are simply to justify their own ideologies

It's not thousands v/s 950.

It's thousands of ordinary people v/s 2 or 3 fatcats who live in luxury in London.

 

[Developereo]

DAWN is very respectable indeed......I wont argue since Im an avid reader....but I have hardly seen a news property worth reading other than this......
I mean a majority of Pakistani's seem to get their "news" from Rupeenews.....Moin Ansari, Ahmad Qureshi and Zaid Hamid.....do I need to go any further??

Also....can you please send me a report of a news article where Islam was criticized in a national newspaper......

Seriously show me the equivalent of Tehelka, the investigative journalism of the Gujrat massacre.....Babri Masjid, Modi's involvement, '83 Riots.....etc etc

The last great report I saw from Pakistan was by this brave woman named Sharmeen O'baid-Chinoy called Children of the Taliban.....who wierdly turned out to be my close friends oldest sister....small world!!

I dont want to get into this who's better than whom argument....as its pretty childish.....but lets educate each other on what is a good news source....What say?

Zaid Hamid and gang are Pakistani version of Fox News. I wouldn't classify them as mainstream.

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/08/18/lessons-from-gojra/

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/08/11/in-defence-of-reason/

There are lots more blog entries.

Unfortunatelty I don't know how to search for old news stories on DAWN.com but they had fairly scathing coverage of Gojra and the TTP in general.

I am told The Hindu is a decent newspaper in India.

 

[Patriot]

Wrong solution.

Why should brave Kashmiris have to give up their ancestral homes and livelihood and reward Indian thuggery?

And if you think India will stop blackmailing us over water, you are too trusting.

It's obvious that we cannot take Kashmir via force.Is it really worth it to fight for a cause which is not going to change and if anything it might turn Sub Continent to nuclear waste land.I personally believe that Pakistan should give up on Kashmir and offer free citizenship and mass migration to Kashmiris who wish to live in Pakistan as a AZAD Kashmiri.We can certainly help them.If we can accept afghanis then why not Kashmiris.J&K will remain with India and thats a fact unless China does something crazy (highly unlikely) so we should accept LOC as international border and it might even improve our relations with India.All those kashmiris who wish to live with India can remain in J&K while those who want to live in Pakistan can move over and in a decade or so we can even open up both borders.Trust me neither side is going to give up its territory.That's the only solution i can think of.

 

[dvk1982]

what was more awkard for me was when i read this article is that how cud these writers preach being unbiased when they themselves rn't...

"Briefly, I had another thought. I imagined myself standing in the heart of an RSS or VHP rally being addressed by L.K. Advani. Replace the word Islam with the word Hindutva, replace the word Pakistan with Hindustan, replace the sea of green flags with saffron ones, and we would have the BJP's nightmare vision of an ideal India.
"

I for one hate any extremism on the basis of religion becoz .. if we patronize our religions and let extremists control it... be islam, chritianity or hinudism.. its a defeat for us... I for one strongly object dividing a nation on the basis of religion.... Never in the history except for twice in 1945-1947 has a country got birth or got partitioned based on just religion !!
When Roy sympathizes with kashmiris by just hinting that she finds it ok for kashmiris to chant Pakistan just becoz it is islamic and they believe only Allah but when some otehr organization RSS does that she says it's nightmare !! when its a nightmare becoz of defining an ideal nation based on one religion then even to some extent kashmiri's patronizing pakistan becoz its islamic republic too needs to be called nightmare !! 2 yardsticks !!! bit****.......

 

[Peshwa]

Zaid Hamid and gang are Pakistani version of Fox News. I wouldn't classify them as mainstream.

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/08/18/lessons-from-gojra/

http://blog.dawn.com:91/dblog/2009/08/11/in-defence-of-reason/

There are lots more blog entries.

Unfortunatelty I don't know how to search for old news stories on DAWN.com but they had fairly scathing coverage of Gojra and the TTP in general.

I am told The Hindu is a decent newspaper in India.

Appreciate the two links.....hope to go through them and speak with you about it.....

Hindu is considered a reputable source....escpecially since its based in Chennai and distances itself from the north Indian BS.......

 

[dvk1982]

This is a firsthand report by an Indian.

Propaganda, indeed

thats the result of freedom of speech.... she is entitled to her views... sadly for you, its not what most indians wud accept !!!

 

[dvk1982]

They were forced to join India against their will.

Thank you.
At least you are honest enough to admit the real reason why India opposes the Kashmiri struggle for freedom.

Not just India but any country on the face of earth rejects seperatists movements... what wud u say if some balochs protest pakis saying even they were not involved merging their province back then !!!

 

[dvk1982]

Let's take this slowly.

The people rebel and ask Pakistan for help.
Pakistan obliges.
India sends in thousands of thugs to silence and intimidate the population.
The more India pushes, the more the Kashmiris resist.

India could have tried to win them over with charm instead of force. (Remember honey, vinegar...?)

where in ur wet dreams did u find people asking for covert pakistani operators to liberate kashmirirs ???

Tell me why it took kashmiris nearly 35 years to revolt against India thats only towards the end of 1980s and not from 1947 ? and in the meantime it had more than twice fought wars with pakistan.... ??

before 1980s end.. Kashmir wasn't the most military controlled zones as it is today... and what a coincidence that those fagots used in afganistan got a c hance to operate in kashmir towards the end of afghan war...

Illetrates can be easily misled in the name of religion.. which pakistan is expert at !!!

 

[Cholan]

It's not thousands v/s 950.

It's thousands of ordinary people v/s 2 or 3 fatcats who live in luxury in London.

Not just 2 or fatcats.. Bugti a well known and respected balochi openly asked for India help...

PA send fighters and killed him.. somehow it is justified..

 

[DesiGuy]

Yeah. It's all a Pakistani conspiracy.

Quick, there's a Pakistani hiding under you bed!

BOO

lol, i live in USA.

 

[gubbi]

Most countries, including Pakistan, have free media with dissenting views, so get off your high horse.

As regards religious fundamentalism, I already posted a few gems of Indian religious 'tolerance' in that other thread where you dared me. And you have the gall to show your face again with that canard!

Lol matey, I chose not to reply to that one because it was another piece of blogged junk! I bet you dont know one single Kashmiri and you talk for them? Talk about gall!
Of course Pakistan has some free media, but what alarms the rest of the world is the alarming rise of religious fundamentalism coupled by the rising levels of dissatisfaction over Pak Govt actions. Now that sure is a recipe for disaster. I do sincerely hope that such a day does not come to pass. And now in such present circumstances, after enjoying relatively wide ranging freedoms, the Kashmiris, and this I know for sure, would gladly prefer-if you may-the "Indian occupation".
Please do free say "yeh (education) system hi hein kharab"!

 

[gubbi]

Kashmiri population wants to join Pakistan in 1947.
The ruler goes with India against their will.
The people rebel and ask Pakistan for help.
Pakistan obliges.

Oh yeah, I should rather believe some anonymous Pakistani poster settled down under on a public forum about what Kashmiris want, over real Kashmiris!!

Do you honestly believe that any Pakistani infiltrators (which you claim) would be so welcome in Kashmir if the people were happy with India?

Like the poor common man really has a choice when facing the business end of a Kalashnikov!!

ps: what are your sources? I really dig fiction!

 

[asq]

What about yourself.

What about myself, let me tell you about us.

we never raise a question about as u Indians do;

Muslim when in space which way he will turn to pray.

We never say new boy friend.

We never say many things but when u Indian bring up the subject we have to correct the untrue. insulting and lying is the norm with Indians.

Let me enlighten you and put up here the lies that India has been spreading and each and every time it got caught.

read on.

India is a rogue, extremist state with nuclear weapons and a danger to the rest of the world!