Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Developereo]

It depends who's perspective you look at it from......

If you want to talk about "forced".....I dont think an insurgency and unrest for the last 20 years was what the Kashmiri's wanted.....But militancy was forced upon the Kashmiri's by Pakistan....ever think of that??
I mean had there been no attack on Kashmir in '47 and the ascension to India had gone without interference from Pakistan.....maybe the Kashmiri's would have been blessed with better lives......maybe they wouldnt have to live under military rule....
Why was Kashmir not heavily militarized before the 80's??

Dont just blame us for the plight of the Kashmiri's....you sow the bad seeds and expect us to take blame for it.....and now when we try to uproot this same weed....you call it brutality.....Is Hypocrisy offered as a major in Pakistani schools?? Im starting to wonder.....

Let's take this slowly.

Kashmiri population wants to join Pakistan in 1947.
The ruler goes with India against their will.
The people rebel and ask Pakistan for help.
Pakistan obliges.
India sends in thousands of thugs to silence and intimidate the population.
The more India pushes, the more the Kashmiris resist.

India could have tried to win them over with charm instead of force. (Remember honey, vinegar...?)

All the tactics that India is trying in Afghanistan could have been used in Kashmir to win the people's hearts and minds. Instead India stationed a 700,000 strong brutal occupation force that engages in murder, rape and torture on a regular basis. This is not just me talking. Indian and independent human rights groups have verified the brutality of Indian army in Kashmir.

Do you honestly believe that any Pakistani infiltrators (which you claim) would be so welcome in Kashmir if the people were happy with India?

 

[Developereo]

See democracy at work here....our fatcats dont need to run off to London to save their lives and protest...our constitution gives them the right to do it right here in India

Yes, we see how you deal with peaceful dissenters in Kashmir.

 

[bandit]

Yes, we see how you deal with peaceful dissenters in Kashmir.

The Kashmiris are peaceful...the terrorists are not.

 

[bandit]

Let's take this slowly.

Kashmiri population wants to join Pakistan in 1947.
The ruler goes with India against their will.
The people rebel and ask Pakistan for help.
Pakistan obliges.
India sends in thousands of thugs to silence and intimidate the population.
The more India pushes, the more the Kashmiris resist.

India could have tried to win them over with charm instead of force. (Remember honey, vinegar...?)

All the tactics that India is trying in Afghanistan could have been used in Kashmir to win the people's hearts and minds. Instead India stationed a 700,000 strong brutal occupation force that engages in murder, rape and torture on a regular basis. This is not just me talking. Indian and independent human rights groups have verified the brutality of Indian army in Kashmir.

Do you honestly believe that any Pakistani infiltrators (which you claim) would be so welcome in Kashmir if the people were happy with India?

Dumb Dumb Dumb

Please read how Kashmiris were the ones informing IA of Infiltrating terrorists in 47,65 and 99, would help you get a grip on reality.

 

[Developereo]

Are you seriously going to compare the level of journalism in Pakistan with India......cmon except on this forum I have never even heard of anyone calling Pakistani media as credible.....
Not to say we dont have some shitty news channels in India that spin conspiracy theories and rely on "wet dreams" to concoct stories.....but the professionalism in Media, the level of transparency in media....cannot even be equated with Pakistan....

You are absolutely right.
Indian and Pakistani media cannot be compared.

Pakistan has media outlets like DAWN.com which routinely critisize Pakistan's foreign policy re: India and Afghanistan, and publish pro-India articles by Indian columnists.

Indian media, for the most part, is right wing, jingoistic, nationalist trash with a monolithic narrative against Pakistan. It is filled with juvenilem tabloid rants against Pakistan. There is not one mainstream Indian media outlet which even dares to publish a Pakistani viewpoint.

Just answer one question.....Can you print a news report critizing Islam in your country

Read DAWN.com (Nadeem Paracha, Huma Yousuf, etc. etc.)

There are others, but start with DAWN.

 

[Developereo]

The Kashmiris are peaceful...the terrorists are not.

Yes. I am sure the girls raped by Indian army thugs were terrorists.

 

[DesiGuy]

Buddy nobody here watches Lollywood..In fact bollywood is far more popular in Pakistan then Lollywood...Now you see that's the problem.You're not accepting that there is a problem.I presented a solution which you might like but the fact is you gotta accept the fact that yes there is a insurgency it would not go down whether PAK supports it or not ie all those people who're sick entired of GOI should be allowed to move to Pakistan (We should provide refugee if we have little bit of respect for Kashmiris..and then accept LOC as international border but also give us some favors such as proper agreements on water etc as we will completely drop Kashmir issue)

Now that's not the problem of India, don't blame India for that.

 

[Developereo]

Dumb Dumb Dumb

Please read how Kashmiris were the ones informing IA of Infiltrating terrorists in 47,65 and 99, would help you get a grip on reality.

I did not say the pro-Pakistan movement is 100%.
Of course there would be individuals who would help India, either because of ideology or because they were paid.

But AR's article above and the need to station half a million+ troops says that the overwhelming majority of Kashmiris want nothing to do with India.

 

[DesiGuy]

www.outlookindia.com | Azadi
by Arundhati Roy

Not surprisingly, the voice that the Government of India has tried so hard to silence in Kashmir has massed into a deafening roar. Hundreds of thousands of unarmed people have come out to reclaim their cities, their streets and mohallas. They have simply overwhelmed the heavily armed security forces by their sheer numbers, and with a remarkable display of raw courage.

Different people have different opinions.

 

[bandit]

I did not say the pro-Pakistan movement is 100%.
Of course there would be individuals who would help India, either because of ideology or because they were paid.

But AR's article above and the need to station half a million+ troops says that the overwhelming majority of Kashmiris want nothing to do with India.

Who told you they were Individuals and not the average Kashmiris helping out the Demon IA you wish it were.

The overwhelming majority stay at their homes and go about their work everyday since pak clamped down on insurgency after 2002. Speaks volumes about where the terrorism originated.

 

[Peshwa]

Let's take this slowly.

Kashmiri population wants to join Pakistan in 1947.
The ruler goes with India against their will.
The people rebel and ask Pakistan for help.
Pakistan obliges.
India sends in thousands of thugs to silence and intimidate the population.
The more India pushes, the more the Kashmiris resist.

India could have tried to win them over with charm instead of force. (Remember honey, vinegar...?)

All the tactics that India is trying in Afghanistan could have been used in Kashmir to win the people's hearts and minds. Instead India stationed a 700,000 strong brutal occupation force that engages in murder, rape and torture on a regular basis. This is not just me talking. Indian and independent human rights groups have verified the brutality of Indian army in Kashmir.

Do you honestly believe that any Pakistani infiltrators (which you claim) would be so welcome in Kashmir if the people were happy with India?

You want it slow....lets make it like its your first time......

Before partition, the Muslims make up 77% of Kashmir, and it is assumed that Maharaja Hari Singh would choose to join Pakistan because of this reason
During Partition, he changes his mind and decides to remain independent
Pakistan and its goons (mix of army and afghan tribesman) attack Kashmir to muscle Hari Singh into ascending to Pakistan
Hari Singh looks to India for help....India lays the condition that Kashmir would have to be integrated into India
Indian army arrives in Kashmir to cleanse it and frees 2/3 of Kashmir past which a cease fire is called
Pakistan and its army under assumptions of a being a "martially superior race" decide to launch operation Gibraltar and muscle Kashmir out of India.....unsuccessfully leading to the '65 war....
Realizing that taking Kashmir from India is not an option militarily, in the 1980's, Pakistan decides to send militants(Pakistani citizens from ***), train unemployed/fanatical/easily malleable Kashmiri youth to start an insurgency, and fight the state.....

You can continue the rest from here.......

Now the one thing I do agree with you in this post is that India could have used "soft" techniques to help the Kashmiri's....but let me ask you something.....why arent you doing the same in NWFP or Baluchistan??......
The reason is, there is militancy in Kashmir....and the sole reason why India shys away from investing in Kashmir is beacuse eventually this money will go down the drain with the militants targeting these very projects.....
I have mentioned this before, that India has never been given a chance to help the Kashmiri's.....

You think Kashmir does not enjoy rights as any other state of India.....so what do you think Pakistan is going to offer the Kashmiri's that India wont???

Also, by saying things like "700,000 strong brutal occupation force that engages in murder, rape and torture on a regular basis"....isnt going to make it real....I will give you that some indisciplined troops make mistakes...but dont make it seem like its a state policy and that IA has a schedule where they decide that "chalo its thursday....aaj kisi ka rape karna hai....phir kisi ki bund phadte hain".......

My advice to Pakistan is ....if they truly care about the Kashmiri's...let there be a decade of peace where we can develop Kashmir.....let the Kashmiri's also expirience the growing wealth of India....and even then if they want to join Pakistan (which I doubt they do even today...but for your sake lets say its true).....we can hold talks.....

 

[Developereo]

Different people have different opinions.

This is not a matter of opinion.
These are documented facts.

We, on this forum, have the luxury to debate this as an abstract concept, but thousand of Kashmiris have lost their life or been tortured or raped because they believe strongly enough to fight for their freedom.

And countless Indian and Pakistani soldiers have also died over this.

This is a matter of human rights that India suppresses by force because, as many Indians have admitted, releasing Kashmir would open the floodgates to other ethnic movements within India.

 

[Developereo]

Who told you they were Individuals and not the average Kashmiris helping out the Demon IA you wish it were.

?

The overwhelming majority stay at their homes and go about their work everyday since pak clamped down on insurgency after 2002. Speaks volumes about where the terrorism originated.

This article was written in Sep 2008.

 

[Cholan]

If thousands of ordinary Balochis defy a stationed army of 700,000 thugs and ask for Indian help, then you would have a comparable case.

If a couple of fatcats living in London ask for it, umm, I doubt it!

Umm.. so the limits and number of people are standards set by You.. as per your convenient.., IF thousand people ask for help then its okay.. if 950 people ask for help then..NO... all this number standards are simply to justify their own ideologies

 

[Peshwa]

You are absolutely right.
Indian and Pakistani media cannot be compared.

Pakistan has media outlets like DAWN.com which routinely critisize Pakistan's foreign policy re: India and Afghanistan, and publish pro-India articles by Indian columnists.

Indian media, for the most part, is right wing, jingoistic, nationalist trash with a monolithic narrative against Pakistan. It is filled with juvenilem tabloid rants against Pakistan. There is not one mainstream Indian media outlet which even dares to publish a Pakistani viewpoint.



Read DAWN.com (Nadeem Paracha, Huma Yousuf, etc. etc.)

There are others, but start with DAWN.

DAWN is very respectable indeed......I wont argue since Im an avid reader....but I have hardly seen a news property worth reading other than this......
I mean a majority of Pakistani's seem to get their "news" from Rupeenews.....Moin Ansari, Ahmad Qureshi and Zaid Hamid.....do I need to go any further??

Also....can you please send me a report of a news article where Islam was criticized in a national newspaper......

Seriously show me the equivalent of Tehelka, the investigative journalism of the Gujrat massacre.....Babri Masjid, Modi's involvement, '83 Riots.....etc etc

The last great report I saw from Pakistan was by this brave woman named Sharmeen O'baid-Chinoy called Children of the Taliban.....who wierdly turned out to be my close friends oldest sister....small world!!

I dont want to get into this who's better than whom argument....as its pretty childish.....but lets educate each other on what is a good news source....What say?