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My observation about RSS primarily being supported by lower middle class is first hand, but could be wrong because I saw only in my area, that too quite long time ago. Most of the full timers definitely belong to that socio-economic section.

I never went to IITs or IIMs, so have no idea about them going to sakha, but a few of them joining is not a surprise. Many students have leftist view after a few years it changes.

About all the question of duplicity regarding secularism, I agree, partially, but not the way it is represented by RSS.

I agree to the point Joe mentioned, RSS cannot be the people who decide who is patriotic. Their brand of patriotism/jingoism mostly suits semi-literates.

Those,(like me) who think Taslima Nasreen should not be hounded everywhere she goes for her views, should also respect freedom of speech of Arundhati Roy and separatists.
 
How Nehru’s Partisans Are Subverting his Kashmir Promise​
Jawed Naqvi
When US President Barrack Obama during his visit to India kept studiously quiet about his host’s military occupation of Kashmir, he was in fact critiquing Jawaharlal Nehru in front of those who claim legitimacy from India’s first prime minister.

Obama may have got his cue from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. He was after all a senior member of the Indian cabinet in 1994 when the parliament passed a strange resolution claiming that the entire Jammu and Kashmir state, including the area “occupied” by Pakistan, was an integral part of India.

The resolution became the antithesis of everything that India had stood for vis a vis Kashmir under Nehru. The fact that Delhi’s most powerful politician Sonia Gandhi, and the ruling Congress party’s heir apparent Rahul Gandhi have implicitly backed the existing hard line policy can be seen as the betrayal of an ideal both claim to inherit from Nehru.

Let’s see what Nehru said over several years about Kashmir, and how many of his views are being echoed by political activists who are being shunned by the system today as seditionists and anti-national rabble-rousers.

In his telegram to the Prime Minister of Pakistan on Oct 27, 1947, Nehru said: “I should like to make it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way to influence the state to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this view

In another similar telegram four days later, he said: “Kashmir’s accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja’s government and the most numerously representative popular organisation in the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either Dominion then

In his broadcast over All India Radio on Nov 2, 1947, Nehru said: “We are anxious not to finalise anything in a moment of crisis and without the fullest opportunity to be given to the people of Kashmir to have their say. It is for them ultimately to decide — And let me make it clear that it has been our policy that where there is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made by the people of that state. It is in accordance with this policy that we have added a proviso to the Instrument of Accession of Kashmir.”

In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on Nov 25, 1947, Nehru said: “In order to establish our bona fide, we have suggested that when the people are given the chance to decide their future, this should be done under the supervision of an impartial tribunal such as the United Nations Organisation. The issue in Kashmir is whether violence and naked force should decide the future or the will of the people.”

In his statement in the Indian Constituent Assembly on March 5, 1948, he said: “Even at the moment of accession, we went out of our way to make a unilateral declaration that we would abide by the will of the people of Kashmir as declared in a plebiscite or referendum. We insisted further that the government of Kashmir must immediately become a popular government. We have adhered to that position throughout and we are prepared to have a Plebiscite with every protection of fair voting and to abide by the decision of the people of Kashmir”.

In his press conference in London on Jan 16, 1951, as reported by The Statesman on Jan 18, 1951, Nehru stated: “India has repeatedly offered to work with the United Nations reasonable safeguards to enable the people of Kashmir to express their will and is always ready to do so. We have always right from the beginning accepted the idea of the Kashmir people deciding their fate by referendum or plebiscite. In fact, this was our proposal long before the United Nations came into the picture. Ultimately the final decision of the settlement, which must come, has first of all to be made basically by the people of Kashmir and secondly, as between Pakistan and India directly. Of course it must be remembered that we (India and Pakistan) have reached a great deal of agreement already. What I mean is that many basic features have been thrashed out. We all agreed that it is the people of Kashmir who must decide for themselves about their future externally or internally. It is an obvious fact that even without our agreement no country is going to hold on to Kashmir against the will of the Kashmiris.”

**In his report to All Indian Congress Committee on July 16, 1951, as published in The Statesman, New Delhi, on July 9, 1951, Nehru said: “Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan. People seem to forget that Kashmir is not a commodity for sale or to be bartered. It has an individual existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their future.**

It is here today that a struggle is bearing fruit, not in the battlefield but in the minds of men.”

In a letter dated Sept 11, 1951, to the UN representative, Pandit Nehru wrote: “The Government of India not only reaffirms its acceptance of the principle that the question of the continuing accession of the state of Jammu and Kashmir to India shall be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite under the auspices of the United Nations but is anxious that the conditions necessary for such a plebiscite should be created as quickly as possible.” (This is where Pakistan needs to fulfil its part of the bargain.)

As reported by Amrita Bazar Patrika, Calcutta, on Jan 2, 1952, while replying to the Bharatiya Jan Sangh’s Shyama Prasad Mookerji’s question in the Indian Legislature as to what the Congress Government was going to do about one third of territory still held by Pakistan, Nehru said: “It is not the property of either India or Pakistan. It belongs to the Kashmiri people.

When Kashmir acceded to India, we made it clear to the leaders of the Kashmiri people that we would ultimately abide by the verdict of their Plebiscite. If they tell us to walk out, I would have no hesitation in quitting. We have taken the issue to United Nations and given our word of honour for a peaceful solution. As a great nation we cannot go back on it. We have left the question for final solution to the people of Kashmir and we are determined to abide by their decision”.

In his statement in the Indian Parliament on Aug 7, 1952, Nehru said: “Let me say clearly that we accept the basic proposition that the future of Kashmir is going to be decided finally by the goodwill and pleasure of her people. The goodwill and pleasure of this Parliament is of no importance in this matter, not because this Parliament does not have the strength to decide the question of Kashmir but because any kind of imposition would be against the principles that this Parliament holds.

Kashmir is very close to our minds and hearts and if by some decree or adverse fortune, ceases to be a part of India, it will be a wrench and a pain and torment for us. If, however, the people of Kashmir do not wish to remain with us, let them go by all means. We will not keep them against their will, however painful it may be to us. I want to stress that it is only the people of Kashmir who can decide the future of Kashmir.

It is not that we have merely said that to the United Nations and to the people of Kashmir, it is our conviction and one that is borne out by the policy that we have pursued, not only in Kashmir but everywhere. Though these five years have meant a lot of trouble and expense and in spite of all we have done, we would willingly leave if it was made clear to us that the people of Kashmir wanted us to go.

However sad we may feel about leaving we are not going to stay against the wishes of the people. We are not going to impose ourselves on them on the point of the bayonet.” :tup:

Today, opposing the subjugation of Kashmiris at bayonet point is called sedition. We have indeed come a long way from India’s early promise of democracy and justice to be shared equally by its people, including with those that might wish to leave the union for reasons of their own.




jawednaqvi@gmail.com



How Nehru?s partisans are subverting his Kashmir promise | Opinion columns, editorials, Dawn 50 years ago today, blogs, letters to the editor and other voices | DAWN.COM
 
Geelani: India Can't kill Kashmiris's Azadi Sentiments

TopNews
Written by KMS
Monday, 29 November 2010 13:27

Geelani%20-%20India%20Can%27t%20kill%20Kashmiris%27s%20Azadi%20Sentiments.jpg


Srinagar, November 29, 2010: All Parties Hurriyat Conference Chairman, Syed Ali Shah Geelani has said that India will never succeed to kill the Azadi (liberation from India) sentiment of the Kashmiri people.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani in a media interview in Srinagar said that the people of Kashmir had been fighting against India’s illegal occupation of their soil since 1947 and their liberation movement against Indian occupation had been totally peaceful and indigenous. He said that during the past five months Indian police and troops martyred over 112 innocent civilians, mostly teenagers, injured over 3000, arrested hundreds of youth including Hurriyat leaders and activists and utilized all resources but failed to suppress the ongoing Quit Kashmir Movement (QKM).

The APHC Chairman, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, said that the Kashmiris’ basic demand was implementation of the UN resolutions or settlement of the dispute through a consensus arrived at by India, Pakistan and the real Kashmiri representatives through talks. He deplored that on one hand, India talked about the dialogue, while on the other, it claimed Jammu and Kashmir as its integral part. He said that this approach had been the main hurdle in settling the lingering dispute.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani maintained that the longstanding dispute should be resolved in its historical perspective by giving the Kashmiri people their inalienable right to self-determination as promised by the relevant UN resolutions.

The APHC-M Chairman, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, has said that the Kashmir dispute should be resolved through tripartite talks involving Pakistan, India and the real Kashmiri leadership.

Mirwaiz Umar Farooq addressing a seminar in Kolkata as a part of his awareness campaign said that Kashmir was a political problem, which should be resolved politically. “The settlement of Kashmir is possible only under the United Nations resolutions or through dialogue process,” he added.

The APHC-M Chairman said that Kashmir was a disputed territory and its resolution was vital to the peace and stability in the south Asian region. "India should revoke all the draconian laws, withdraw its troops, release all the illegally detained pro-freedom leaders and activists and stop gross rights abuses in the occupied territory to create conducive atmosphere for the dialogue on Kashmir,” he maintained.

The Mirwaiz said, "The so-called election drama enacted by India in Jammu and Kashmir from time to time has nothing to do with the history and the sentiment of the Kashmiri people.” He denounced the order of a Delhi Court to register FIR against, prominent Indian writer, Arundathi Roy, for her comments on Kashmir during a seminar in New Delhi, last month.

Defending Arundhati Roy, he said, “Roy had only repeated the historical facts about Kashmir.” He said that the occupation authorities had put curbs on the right of expression across the occupied territory.

Senior APHC leader, Agha Syed Hassan Al-Moosvi, has said that India cannot suppress Kashmiris’ just struggle for their right of Self-Determination through use of brute force and illegal detentions of pro-liberation leaders and activists.

He further said that the people of Jammu and Kashmir wanted cordial bilateral relations between Pakistan and India. He termed the use of force by the occupation authorities as a conspiracy to harass the Hurriyat leaders and the freedom-loving people of the territory. “Indian agencies are trying to thwart the efforts of Indian Civil Society and Intellectuals to make the masses aware of the gross human rights violations perpetrated by Indian troopers across the occupied valley,” he added.

Indian troops, in their fresh act of state terrorism, martyred three more innocent Kashmiri youth in a shoot out in Srinagar city of Occupied State of Jammu & Kashmir (OSJK).

The troops martyred the youth in a vindictive operation after a policeman was killed in an attack in Qamarwari area of the city, this afternoon. The troops sealed off the area and started search operation, which continued till last reports came in.

Geelani: India Can't kill Kashmiris's Azadi Sentiments
 
Mohtaram Geelani Sahab May Allah Almighty Bless Kashmir, Azaadi from the Aggressor India. May Kashmiri's see the light of Liberation sooner then one can think of. Ameen. Countless Prayers from your Pakistan. Allah Almighty Bless You. Ameen.
 
Mohtaram Geelani Sahab May Allah Almighty Bless Kashmir, Azaadi from the Aggressor India. May Kashmiri's see the light of Liberation sooner then one can think of. Ameen. Countless Prayers from your Pakistan. Allah Almighty Bless You. Ameen.

Touching ! I must say...
 
Touching ! I must say...

Sensereason, We Pakistanis and Muslims have nothing against India but just the wrong doings of Indian State in Jammu & Kashmir. I hope the Indian nation realizes the truth and works with us to undo the wrong doings so we should live side by side as good neighbours. It is hurtning to see that India is Absolutely Wrong when it comes to Kashmir Issue and some Indians still support it. For example, as you all would know that I'm the greatest Patriot and would love to die for Pakistan but still wouldn't Ever Support any wrong doing by my State. Treatment to our Bangoli Brothers by Pak Army is an example. I Request all the Indians to Please come out of denial and be truthful to yourselves and to the world. It's going to be a big Virtue for you guys. Last but not least Thank you for Appreciating the Truth Sir.
 
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Case registered against Arundhati, Geelani

NEW DELHI: Following a court order, the Delhi Police on Monday registered a case of sedition against writer Arundhati Roy, hardline Hurriyat leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, revolutionary poet Varavara Rao and others on charges of giving “anti-India” speeches at a convention on Kashmir, “Azadi: The Only Way”, held here on Oct. 21.

The case has been registered at Tilak Marg police station under Sections 124 A (sedition), 153 A (promoting enmity between different groups and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony), 153 B (imputations, assertions, prejudicial to national integration), 504 (insult intended to provoke breach of peace) and 505 (statements conducing to public mischief) of the IPC and Section 13 of the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act.

Joint Commissioner of Police (New Delhi Range) Dharmendra Kumar said the complaint filed by Sushil Pandit in the court under Section 156 (3) of the Criminal Procedure Code has been converted into the First Information Report FIR after taking legal opinion on the matter. With the registration of the case, the police have initiated investigations.

They have already obtained footage of the speeches made at the convention. “We will closely examine the speeches and file a report in the court by January 6, 2011 (the next date of hearing),” said Mr. Kumar.

The others named in the complaint include Delhi University professor S. A. R. Geelani who was acquitted in the Parliament attack case, Kashmir University law professor Sheikh Shaukat Hussain, Shuddhabrata Sengupta and Sujato Bhadra.

A Delhi court had, last Saturday, ordered the police to register the FIR against Ms. Roy, the Hurriyat leader and the others for allegedly making anti-India statements at the convention. Directing the police to register the case under relevant provisions, Metropolitan Magistrate Navita Kumari Bagha had noted that there was prime facie cogent evidence against the accused.


The Hindu : Front Page : Case registered against Arundhati, Geelani
 
:cheers::cheers: :tup:

Now no free attention catching BS
You have to pay back
 
I guess they finally decided enough is enough.

Lets see if they get an arrest warrant though.
 
good.. Now let her see her fan following (huh!) dwindle to nothing.. bloody traitor :)
 
When such conditions are widespread how can one blame the the RSS/Sangh Parivar alone for all the ills in the society.

Correct these above conditions and deny the oxygen that makes these groups relevant.Unless and until that is done don't blame RSS and its supporters.

Unfortunately, the answer for a series of mistakes is not to point at a countervailing series of mistakes.

Frequently, when we speak to our friends across the western borders, we are exasperated when we point out the ways in which they have harmed our nation, and they reply with a dhobi-list of items that they bear as real or imaginary grievances. Your reply is exactly the same as theirs. Are we then to justify all the armed attacks on India by saying that they feel frustrated and grieved by India not giving in to all their demands? Surely not. And therefore, your list of hideous things that have been committed by others cannot be a justification for the hideous things done by the Sangh Parivar. Two wrongs do not make a right.

There are other hyper-patriots floating across the Internet waves, and one of them, in a moment of sanity enunciated what is known as Shiv's Gambit: Person A to Person B: "Your shirt is torn!" Person B to Person A: "So what? Your fly is open!" Person B's shirt remains torn; in some mysterious way, he thinks that Person A's fly being open somehow justifies going around with a torn shirt. It doesn't.

Finally, those opposed to the Sangh Parivar aren't necessarily defenders of the Congress, as seems to be your entirely mistaken belief. Please see the comments below.

Sikhs getting slaughered in thousands = A MISTAKE.

It was not; it was ethnic violence in its worst form, and it is a national shame that it is not pursued in the courts and the perpetrators, all of whom are known politicians and thugs in Delhi, brought to justice. Please do not use the Congress Party's excuses to justify Sangh Parivar excesses and similar acts of genocide.

Hindus pandits getting killed in Kashmir = Political problem.

Again, this was an act of communal bias, and is the blackest stain in the face of Kashmiri secularism and inter-faith tolerance. Now we have a Hurriyat excuse being used to justify the Sangh.

Poor protestors getting shot in WB under Left Govt = Misunderstanding.

Well done; you have managed to rope in the Congress Party, the Hurriyat and the CPI(M), and shown that they too are guilty of horrible crimes against humanity. How does that justify the Sangh Parivar?

But,Muslims getting killed by a few hundred = Holocaust/Pogrom/Genocide.

So let us have your enlightened Sanghi opinion: do you want us to call it "A MISTAKE", a "political problem", or a "Misunderstanding"? And are you comparing the numbers?
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Banning Parzania in Gujarat = Communal.

Banning Da Vinci Code and Jo Bole So Nihaal = Secular

Again, two wrongs making a right, it would appear.
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Reservations in every school and college on caste lines = Secular.
Reservations in Minority institutions = Communal.

In your zeal and fervour, you seem to have slipped. There is constitutional protection for minority institutions. If you consult your local Sangh chalak, he will no doubt ask you to club that also as communal. You may have to do extra drill and starch your khaki chadddis extra stiff in expiation. You are to be commiserated with; calling reservations in minority institutions "communal" was at worst a Mistake, a political problem (of understanding) or a Misunderstanding.
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Fake encounters in Gujarat [Sohrabuddin] = BJP Communalism.
Fake encounters under Cong-NCP in Maharashtra [Khwaja Younus] = Police atrocity.

Fake encounters, you will agree, are breaches of the law, and the law-breakers are to be prosecuted for manslaughter if charges of murder are not tenable (there are certain conditions that have to be satisfied for charges of murder to be imposed). The difference is that the Sohrabuddin case is clearly an outcome of the rank corruption of the BJP minister as well and senior policemen, who were running a protection racket, and threatening lives unless they were paid off. Both are atrocities.

If you want to fight the Congress, a laudable political objective, and one with which many of us will have sympathy, do it without using their misdeeds to justify the Sangh. Kalmadi's corruption doesn't justify Yedyurappa's, Raja's corruption doesn't justify Venkaiah Naidu's.
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Talking about Hindus and Hinduism appeasment = Communal.

Perhaps you need to re-write this passage; appeasing Hindus is hardly communal. Appeasing, BTW, means avoiding conflict by making concessions to a threatening enemy; how does this fit your phrase? Are Hindus and Hinduism threatening, or have they been receiving concessions?

Talking about Muslims,Christians and Islam = Secular.

Don't you think an 80+% majority can afford to be accommodating? Do you find even talking about them offensive? Presuming that secular is an offensive term to you, as it frequently is for Sanghis.
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Not hanging Afzal Guru the mastermind despite Supreme Court orders = Humanity and Political dilemma/May affect Muslim sentiments

How does delay in a judicial execution equate to communal riot and murder and burning alive an elected MP who made repeated appeals to the Chief Minister before being killed?
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BJP questioning Islam = Communal.
Congress/Historians questioning Lord Ram's existance = Clerical Error.

Islam is history, recorded by its opponents as well as by its supporters. Lord Rama is myth, even according to a fanatic BJP-ite. What do you mean by clerical error, by the way?
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The man who said "When a big tree falls the ground beneath it shakes" is honored with his name being used for every new airport,stadium,sea link etc.

Disgraceful. Does this justify slaughtering Muslims and Christians?

The man who was the CM during the Guj riots is a modern incarnation of Hitler.

And what else was Hitler but the head of state while Jews were being exterminated? Is it your case that he personally pressed the buttons to release Cyklon B?

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While every Human rights activist/political party worth his saly fights for Muslim victims of th Guj riots , no one cares for the 58 Karsevaks killed intially and the 250 killed later in the riots by the Mulsim mobs.

It might come as a surprise to you to learn that enquiries into the matter have cast grave doubts on the story of Muslim mobs setting fire to the railway coach. Look up the facts. And this is not to justify a loss of life, nor the deaths of the innocent. Those rioters who were killed in self-defence is a different matter, but we aren't talking about that, are we?
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While a bomb blast in which a fringe group is among the suspects,it gets dubbed as "Hindu Terror" while in the case of its much famous cousin it becomes "Terrorism has no religion" and "innocent muslim youths are victimised"

Bigots are bigots on both sides. Which one are you citing to justify the other? It's a circular argument, don't you see?
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In a supposedly secular society Mulsims are given subsidy to go for Hajj ; while Hindus going to Amarnath Yatra are not even allotted proper land

And why didn't the BJP government and its coalition not stop this subsidy when it was in power?
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Supreme court orders in the Shah Bano case subverted to maintain Muslim sentiments.
But Allahabad court verdict for Ayodhya questioned as faith cannot determine law.


Again, why should the wrongs committed by the Congress (in the Shah Bano case, a shocking miscarriage of justice, forced on the nation by a spineless administration) serve as justification for someone else?

Does this act of blatant interference by a political party, reversing a judicial decision by act of Parliament, justify a bad judicial decision?
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M.H Hussain drawing Godess Saraswati nude = Freedom of free speech
But Danish cartoon activist should be condemned as it hurts Muslim sentiments


Again, the same error.

Hussain certainly had and has the right of free artistic expression, and it has nothing to do with the noxious and unpardonable verbal attacks on the Danish cartoonist. Both should be condemned, not one taken as an excuse to justify the other.
 
Karthik, Plz share the link where Iran clarified its official position over IOK.
 

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