Kashmir is not India’s internal matter: Pakistan

[PlanetWarrior]

Indian leadership & Army is not sincere. Look at France & Germany who had much bigger disputes of land, if they keep their denial mode on, they would've never achieve developed country status. Junagarh/Manvadar decided to join Pakistan, Hyderabad Deccan decided not to become part of India but India held referendum in those areas after occupying those parts, now India does not wanna apply the same rule on Kashmir.

Well, Indian army has no say in the matter. I had two people from my family who served in the Indian army and airforce. Both were high ranking officers and you can be rest assured that the Indian military eventually just stand to attention and take orders from the politicians. I have said this in previous posts and I will continue to say this ..neither Pakistan nor India will progress to the great heights which we should whilst we both have politicians and political leadership of the ilk which we are cursed with

Kashmir belong to Kashmiris and Pakistan.

Take a hike yendians.

Okay, now that you have spoken oh self exiled one from PDF, the Indian establishment is starting to exit from Kashmir

 

[INDIC]

Alastair Lamb , the author of Incomplete Partition , says :

"What part had the government of Pakistan to play in this venture into Military venture into state of Jammu and Kashmir ?..... The Governor General , M A Jinnah was kept ignorant of all the details though naturally he was aware that there was trouble of some sort brewing in Kashmir , and the cabinet of Pakistan did not take a minuted stance " (page 137 Lamb)


Fatima Jinnah confirms it as well . , She is quoted as saying : " Infact he (Jinnah) did not know anything about it [Kashmir attack by tribals] at all and was very sorry that a thoughtless step has been taken in such a crude and unorganised manner "(page 87 Khurshid)


Sir George Cunningham holds the view that Jinnah was unaware of the tribal invasion till very late . He is quoted in the book "Sir George Cunningham ; A Memoir" (Blackwood , 1968) on page 140 :

"On Oct 25 , Col. Iskander Mirza arrived from Lahore . He told me all the underground history of the present campaign against Kashmir , and brought apologies from Liaquat Ali Khan for not letting me know anything about it sooner . Liaquat had meant to come here last week and tell me about it personally but was prevented by his illness ... Apparently Jinnah himself heard of what was going on about 15 days ago , but said `Don`t tell me anything about it . My conscience must be clear` ... It was decided apparently about a month ago that the Poonchis should revolt and must be helped . Abdul Qayyum was in it from the beginning "


There is a consensus amongst the students of Kashmir issue that Jinnah was entirely ignorant of the tribal invasion , (at least till Oct 10) after which he may have heard about it , but he was not involved (in any way)



Hector Bolitho writes :

"On Oct 24 , news reached Quaid e Azam in Karachi that five thousand guerrilla tribesmen from NWF had crossed into Kashmir to help their fellow Muslims " (p.185 , Jinnah :Creator of Pakistan)

So, this one too is the matter of huge debate.

 

[That Guy]

Yes off-course... We should also have a dialog on the Kashmir administered by Pakistan.. Until then this dispute will not be cleared off..


Yes. India agreed on referendum, but in that case, referendum has to be done in whole Kashmir (India administered + Pakistan administered).. Pakistan is not willing for this.. The plebiscite has to done in whole Kashmir....

Actually, that is precisely what Pakistan agreed too. The agreement also said that once a plebiscite is carried out, and the result is shown, negotiations will once again be carried out with China on the remaining territory by the winning party.

 

[illusion8]

Actually, that is precisely what Pakistan agreed too. The agreement also said that once a plebiscite is carried out, and the result is shown, negotiations will once again be carried out with China on the remaining territory by the winning party.

When was this agreed by Pakistan? when was it agreed upon by India?

 

[Kloitra]

Alastair Lamb , the author of Incomplete Partition , says :

"What part had the government of Pakistan to play in this venture into Military venture into state of Jammu and Kashmir ?..... The Governor General , M A Jinnah was kept ignorant of all the details though naturally he was aware that there was trouble of some sort brewing in Kashmir , and the cabinet of Pakistan did not take a minuted stance " (page 137 Lamb)


Fatima Jinnah confirms it as well . , She is quoted as saying : " Infact he (Jinnah) did not know anything about it [Kashmir attack by tribals] at all and was very sorry that a thoughtless step has been taken in such a crude and unorganised manner "(page 87 Khurshid)


Sir George Cunningham holds the view that Jinnah was unaware of the tribal invasion till very late . He is quoted in the book "Sir George Cunningham ; A Memoir" (Blackwood , 1968) on page 140 :

"On Oct 25 , Col. Iskander Mirza arrived from Lahore . He told me all the underground history of the present campaign against Kashmir , and brought apologies from Liaquat Ali Khan for not letting me know anything about it sooner . Liaquat had meant to come here last week and tell me about it personally but was prevented by his illness ... Apparently Jinnah himself heard of what was going on about 15 days ago , but said `Don`t tell me anything about it . My conscience must be clear` ... It was decided apparently about a month ago that the Poonchis should revolt and must be helped . Abdul Qayyum was in it from the beginning "


There is a consensus amongst the students of Kashmir issue that Jinnah was entirely ignorant of the tribal invasion , (at least till Oct 10) after which he may have heard about it , but he was not involved (in any way)



Hector Bolitho writes :

"On Oct 24 , news reached Quaid e Azam in Karachi that five thousand guerrilla tribesmen from NWF had crossed into Kashmir to help their fellow Muslims " (p.185 , Jinnah :Creator of Pakistan)

Not sure how much he knew about the tribal invasion, but there are claims that he knew about certain raids.

Given that Kashmiri ruler was in contact with him, there is high possibility that he was informed through him, albeit at a later date.

 

[INDIC]

View attachment 22865

Given that Kashmiri ruler was in contact with him, there is high possibility that he was informed through him, albeit at a later date.

This one the reporting done by American Life Magazine photographer Margaret Bourke White about the tribal invasion of Kashmir.

On occasions Bourke-White was able to slip out unescorted and meet tribal Pashtun invaders. She narrates her conversation with one Invader leader, Badsha Gul of Mohmand tribe. Gul had brought one thousand tribals, a convoy of trucks and ammunition for invasion of Kashmir. The trucks and buses would at times come back within a day or two "bursting with loot, only to return to Kashmir with more tribesmen, to repeat their indiscriminate "liberating" - and terrorising of Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim villagers alike".

About the buses and lorries Bourke-White writes "taxi companies (in Rawalpindi) were donating twenty or ten or a couple of trucks each, the number I suppose depending on the intensity with which the owner believed the Muslims in Kashmir needed 'rescuing'.

 

[Kloitra]

This one the reporting done by American Life Magazine photographer Margaret Bourke White about the tribal invasion of Kashmir.

On occasions Bourke-White was able to slip out unescorted and meet tribal Pashtun invaders. She narrates her conversation with one Invader leader, Badsha Gul of Mohmand tribe. Gul had brought one thousand tribals, a convoy of trucks and ammunition for invasion of Kashmir. The trucks and buses would at times come back within a day or two "bursting with loot, only to return to Kashmir with more tribesmen, to repeat their indiscriminate "liberating" - and terrorising of Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim villagers alike".

About the buses and lorries Bourke-White writes "taxi companies (in Rawalpindi) were donating twenty or ten or a couple of trucks each, the number I suppose depending on the intensity with which the owner believed the Muslims in Kashmir needed 'rescuing'.

What they did is well recorded. They gave India the reason to move into Kashmir, so we should be grateful! What is interesting to know is how much was Pakistani top leadership, including Jinnah, knew and was complicit. It should not be possible for military leadership not to know what those tribals were doing, but did the political leadership?

 

[INDIC]

What they did is well recorded. They gave India the reason to move into Kashmir, so we should be grateful! What is interesting to know is how much was Pakistani top leadership, including Jinnah, knew and was complicit. It should not be possible for military leadership not to know what those tribals were doing, but did the political leadership?

That military plan to invade Kashmir was one of greatest historical blunders by Pakistan even if they got one-third of Kashmir still the damage it caused to Pakistan was immense, since there was no support from Kashmiri Muslims. In the end they could not get the hold of the three rivers Indus, Chenab and Jhelum which was the main reason for the invasion of Kashmir to get hold of so called Jugular veins(rivers).

 

[American Pakistani]

I have said this in previous posts and I will continue to say this ..neither Pakistan nor India will progress to the great heights which we should whilst we both have politicians and political leadership of the ilk which we are cursed with

So true, i agree with you. I hope in near future Pakistan & especially India act as France & Germany and solve this dispute once for all. So many generations have been injected with hatred & poison because of Kashmir dispute. The great leaders of Pakistan & India i.e Sir Jinnah(R.A) and Gandhi jee always wanted friendly & close relations between the two countries, i hope their dreams will come true & Pakistan & India will become friendly neighbors like US & Canada.

 

[M. Sarmad]

So, this one too is the matter of huge debate.

No it is not . The claim that Jinnah was involved , is unfounded . There is no evidence

 

[Slayer786]

Well I dont care if it is a bilateral matter or not. Talks should be held on this disputed territory. Otherwise the relations will always stay the same. And there will never be peace.
.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

No it is not . The claim that Jinnah was involved , is unfounded . There is no evidence

Wasn't Mr Jinnah the Commander in Chief of the Pakistani military then ? Asking not certain myself

 

[Screambowl]

So true, i agree with you. I hope in near future Pakistan & especially India act as France & Germany and solve this dispute once for all. So many generations have been injected with hatred & poison because of Kashmir dispute. The great leaders of Pakistan & India i.e Sir Jinnah(R.A) and Gandhi jee always wanted friendly & close relations between the two countries, i hope their dreams will come true & Pakistan & India will become friendly neighbors like US & Canada.

For friendly relations, one has to compromise on Kashmir (NOW There is no middle solution). Which is not possible, this everyone has to understand. Of course Vajpayee and Sharif were close to recognize LOC as IB but then you know what happened in 1999. So if such things occur then trust deficit occurs and things remain unresolved.

I will blame Pakistan for this directly because one side the Pak Military tries to throw brick at us in LOC fire exchange and otherside Pak civilian government forces us to have dialogue. It is like forcing India to have a dialogue on a gun point. How is that possible?

 

[jaunty]

That military plan to invade Kashmir was one of greatest historical blunders by Pakistan even if they got one-third of Kashmir still the damage it caused to Pakistan was immense, since there was no support from Kashmiri Muslims. In the end they could not get the hold of the three rivers Indus, Chenab and Jhelum which was the main reason for the invasion of Kashmir to get hold of so called Jugular veins(rivers).

Pakistanis generally lack foresight. Most of their decisions are shortsighted. Kinda flows from the inception of the country itself.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

The Jammu and Kashmir issue is one of the oldest disputes on the United Nations Security Council agenda and it is not an internal affair of India, according to Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Tasnim Aslam.

Responding to questions at the weekly media briefing on Thursday, she said “What the Prime Minister essentially said in The Hague is that if there is reluctance on the Indian side to resolve this issue bilaterally, our common friends can help convince India to come to the negotiating table.” Mr. Nawaz Sharif had requested for U.S. mediation and international help to resolve Kashmir on his visit to The Hague for the International Nuclear Security Summit. India has ruled out any third party mediation in the matter.

Ms. Aslam said the U.N. has an observer mission here — the United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan. The Under Secretary-General of U.N. Department of Peacekeeping Operations recently visited Pakistan and he also went to the Line of Control (LoC). So, there is no denying the fact that it is an internationally recognised dispute. “Now the choice we have is to move like other regions towards developing good neighbourly relations, forging economic ties, increasing people to people contacts so that people in this region can also benefit from regional trade and economic cooperation and connectivity,” she said. “People in region also deserve to reap the benefits of economic cooperation. It is, therefore, important that Pakistan and India resolve this dispute through dialogue, she added.

Kashmir is not India’s internal matter: Pakistan - The Hindu

in the mean time...Indians are busy electing their next prime minister... does she really believe that we even bother about their stand right now.